cacheman Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: IMO if this is true Big Pharma would be all over it. There are a number of pharmaceutical companies investing significant resources in Cannabis research. You might have seen that a new Cannabis derived drug for a couple forms of epilepsy was just recently approved by the FDA. As far as cancer focused research, I've personally seen the effect of certain cannabinoids on cancer cells and mice. There are many studies showing similar results in tissue and animals. Of course, that doesn't always translate to similar efficacy in humans. But I believe there's a lot of potential there, and that optimism is shared by many researchers around the world. Here's some info on the potential of Cannabis from the National Cancer Institute: www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/patient/cannabis-pdq#link/_13 On the other hand, there are some pharmaceutical companies fighting against legalization. I think there's a lot of uncertainty in the industry as to how investing money into Cannabis research will affect their bottom line. There are some unique challenges in working with this plant. 1. There are serious legal and logistic obstacles in place that hinder human trials, even outside the US. 2. Any FDA approved Cannabis derived drug would face competition not only with currently approved drugs, but with the widely available and relatively inexpensive Cannabis products found in legal and non-legal states. This competition would take place in any era of increasing distrust towards the pharmaceutical industry. It's not surprising to me that some in the pharmaceutical industry are avoiding this plant or in some cases, spending huge amounts of money to fight against its legalization. 1 Link to comment
FunOnlineMan Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 On 7/12/2018 at 2:01 AM, Kenngo1969 said: Tacenda, thanks for the anecdotal information regarding animal miracle cures. That wasn't exactly what I was looking for, and frankly, My Cynical Self is inclined to distrust information which avers that nonstandardized, non-systematized use of a single substance can cure a wide constellation of disparate symptoms. (And how do you know these are "actual experiences"? Do you know the people involved personally? Isn't there a possibility, a remote one, perhaps, but still a possibility, that one or more of these people decided to prank gullible people who will believe anything they read on the Internet?) Still, thanks nonetheless. On the other hand, if these people say Mary Jo cured their doggies' ills, who am I to argue? Would these anecdotal claims be stronger or weaker than claims that olive oil can cure a wide constellation of disparate symptoms? Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, FunOnlineMan said: Would these anecdotal claims be stronger or weaker than claims that olive oil can cure a wide constellation of disparate symptoms? That seems to be something of a red herring. I don't know anyone on this thread who makes claims for olive oil which are similar to the claims being made for marijuana. In any event, I'm skeptical that any single substance can cure a wide constellation of disparate symptoms. Link to comment
FunOnlineMan Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: That seems to be something of a red herring. I don't know anyone on this thread who makes claims for olive oil which are similar to the claims being made for marijuana. In any event, I'm skeptical that any single substance can cure a wide constellation of disparate symptoms. I’m probably biased, because I penned the thing, but I don’t see a red herring in my inquiry, Provided you or others “in this thread” trust anecdotal evidences that there are healing properties in olive oil under certain circumstances. If you are equally skeptical of claims that can’t be verified with real evidence, then you’re cool with me. Link to comment
pogi Posted July 15, 2018 Author Share Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Tacenda said: Heaven forbid if they do, we're doomed. I'm flabbergasted that you and others aren't as worried about pharmaceutical drugs compared to Cannabinoids that aren't deadly. How many lawsuits are out there because of deaths from prescription drugs vs. Cannabis deaths? https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/26/prescription-drugs-number-one-cause-preventable-death-in-us.aspx Please tell me you are not getting your medical information from Dr. Mercola! https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/9-reasons-to-completely-ignore-joseph-mercola-and-natural-news/ https://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html Tacenda, I think you fundamentally misunderstand our concerns. We are not arguing that marijuana is any more or less safe than prescription medicines. We are simply saying that we should first study it to understand what it actually does and what it actually treats, what its side effects are, what other medications it interacts with, what is proper dosage for age and weight, etc. does it help or worsen certain conditions, what are the long-term effects, ect. etc. etc. When I buy it, am I actually getting untainted product without any fillers, or am I getting something else? If it really does everything you claim that it does, then PROVE it! That is all I am saying. The herbal industry is a total sham, and I am afraid marijuana is turning into the same type of sham. That is terribly unfortunate when it very well could have some beneficial medicinal qualities to it. In regard to pharmaceuticals being the #1 cause of preventable deaths - that is nuts! Heart disease is #1, by far. Second, that is very misleading. Yes, deaths do occur from pharmaceuticals, but they are exceptionally rare in the absence of abuse and misuse. Edited July 15, 2018 by pogi 2 Link to comment
Tacenda Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 7 hours ago, pogi said: Please tell me you are not getting your medical information from Dr. Mercola! https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/9-reasons-to-completely-ignore-joseph-mercola-and-natural-news/ https://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html Tacenda, I think you fundamentally misunderstand our concerns. We are not arguing that marijuana is any more or less safe than prescription medicines. We are simply saying that we should first study it to understand what it actually does and what it actually treats, what its side effects are, what other medications it interacts with, what is proper dosage for age and weight, etc. does it help or worsen certain conditions, what are the long-term effects, ect. etc. etc. When I buy it, am I actually getting untainted product without any fillers, or am I getting something else? If it really does everything you claim that it does, then PROVE it! That is all I am saying. The herbal industry is a total sham, and I am afraid marijuana is turning into the same type of sham. That is terribly unfortunate when it very well could have some beneficial medicinal qualities to it. In regard to pharmaceuticals being the #1 cause of preventable deaths - that is nuts! Heart disease is #1, by far. Second, that is very misleading. Yes, deaths do occur from pharmaceuticals, but they are exceptionally rare in the absence of abuse and misuse. It's been around for hundreds of years. But since it became illegal, that's when the problems started. And since it's been put on a schedule 1 list, then we aren't able to do all the testing you need. And when people have to buy it on the net or streets and don't know what they're getting. I certainly blame the government and the big pharm companies for this. But that is me. And I read testimonials every day, but people on here refuse to believe they are real. This isn't email scams or even the internet. These are people on FB that are just as afraid of problems with it as you and the rest. Are you on FB? If so join the group I've shared over and over. But if you choose to turn your back until you can buy it through your doctor with a prescription, that is your perogative. But the CBD oil is already legal and in the US, what do you think about that, do you think it's bad too? Link to comment
Calm Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: I’m probably biased, because I penned the thing, but I don’t see a red herring in my inquiry, Provided you or others “in this thread” trust anecdotal evidences that there are healing properties in olive oil under certain circumstances. If you are equally skeptical of claims that can’t be verified with real evidence, then you’re cool with me. CFR (call for references, means you need to provide documentation) please about the healing properties of olive oil. While .I am aware of the usual claimed benefits for using healthy fats, I haven't heard of any claims of olive oil as a cure all or almost cure all. I am interested in seeing more info on this. Olive oil makes for a great moisturizer in my experience (similar to many other thicker oils) and I use it in cooking for any needed fat unless the taste mix doesn't work and then .I use avocado oil. I personally see no more reason however to trust anecdotal evidence for anything than for CBD, but as long as one watches calories, olive oil doesn't have much potential negative side effects and doesn't affect one's mental state, so I wouldn't be as cautious in supporting people experimenting with it. And your comment is a red herring/derailment imo because no one here has made claims in this thread for olive oil in the same way ones have been made for CBD. If you are simply curious about how people view olive oil, that is not a problematic question, but the way you phrase it as if it is in rebuttal to positions held by people on this thread doesn't make much sense, imo. If pogi as thread starter prefers not to have a derailment about olive oil, I am perfectly happy to drop the topic. Edited July 16, 2018 by Calm Link to comment
Tacenda Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 9 hours ago, pogi said: Please tell me you are not getting your medical information from Dr. Mercola! https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/9-reasons-to-completely-ignore-joseph-mercola-and-natural-news/ https://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html Tacenda, I think you fundamentally misunderstand our concerns. We are not arguing that marijuana is any more or less safe than prescription medicines. We are simply saying that we should first study it to understand what it actually does and what it actually treats, what its side effects are, what other medications it interacts with, what is proper dosage for age and weight, etc. does it help or worsen certain conditions, what are the long-term effects, ect. etc. etc. When I buy it, am I actually getting untainted product without any fillers, or am I getting something else? If it really does everything you claim that it does, then PROVE it! That is all I am saying. The herbal industry is a total sham, and I am afraid marijuana is turning into the same type of sham. That is terribly unfortunate when it very well could have some beneficial medicinal qualities to it. In regard to pharmaceuticals being the #1 cause of preventable deaths - that is nuts! Heart disease is #1, by far. Second, that is very misleading. Yes, deaths do occur from pharmaceuticals, but they are exceptionally rare in the absence of abuse and misuse. How about this site, bad? http://drugwarfacts.org/chapter/causes_of_death Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: I’m probably biased, because I penned the thing, but I don’t see a red herring in my inquiry, Provided you or others “in this thread” trust anecdotal evidences that there are healing properties in olive oil under certain circumstances. If you are equally skeptical of claims that can’t be verified with real evidence, then you’re cool with me. FunOnlineMan (may I call you Fungi? It fits! ), if sneering, mocking, and condescension are your modi operandi when it comes to dealing with believers generally and with Latter-day Saints, in particular, you're fortunate that my opinions on such matters carry no weight hereabouts, because if they did, your right to unfettered posting probably wouldn't last long. If you're wondering how I can accept claims proffered by the Church of Jesus Christ and its leaders, on the one hand, while proclaiming skepticism that marijuana cures a wide constellation of disparate symptoms, on the other hand, I use a different paradigm (one that I think is appropriate to the respective matters under consideration) in each case. A scientific or empirical paradigm might be useful in considering a wide variety of questions and issues (such as marijuana's alleged efficacy in treating or curing a wide constellation of disparate symptoms), but it is not necessarily useful for all purposes (such as evaluating religious claims). While your mileage probably varies, personally, I have no problem with that: If you do (and I suspect you might), to each, his own. Vive la difference! Notwithstanding any questions individual Latter-day Saints may have regarding the efficacy of the Priesthood (whether generally or in specific cases), as a general matter, Latter-day Saints are content, subject to the will of the Lord, to appeal, inter alia, to James 5:14 as historical precedent for anointing of the sick and laying on of hands. In any case, the power is not in the oil (notwithstanding usual blessing practice in the Church of Jesus Christ, in exceptional circumstances, it's not absolutely necessary). In the April 2010 Annual General Conference, then-Elder-now-President Dallin H. Oaks provided an excellent summary of how the interplay of various factors operates when it comes to healing the sick; see here (not that your interest is sincere, but for anyone else whose interest might be): https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/04/healing-the-sick?lang=eng Edited July 16, 2018 by Kenngo1969 Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 16 hours ago, cacheman said: There are a number of pharmaceutical companies investing significant resources in Cannabis research. You might have seen that a new Cannabis derived drug for a couple forms of epilepsy was just recently approved by the FDA. As far as cancer focused research, I've personally seen the effect of certain cannabinoids on cancer cells and mice. There are many studies showing similar results in tissue and animals. Of course, that doesn't always translate to similar efficacy in humans. But I believe there's a lot of potential there, and that optimism is shared by many researchers around the world. Here's some info on the potential of Cannabis from the National Cancer Institute: www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/patient/cannabis-pdq#link/_13 On the other hand, there are some pharmaceutical companies fighting against legalization. I think there's a lot of uncertainty in the industry as to how investing money into Cannabis research will affect their bottom line. There are some unique challenges in working with this plant. 1. There are serious legal and logistic obstacles in place that hinder human trials, even outside the US. 2. Any FDA approved Cannabis derived drug would face competition not only with currently approved drugs, but with the widely available and relatively inexpensive Cannabis products found in legal and non-legal states. This competition would take place in any era of increasing distrust towards the pharmaceutical industry. It's not surprising to me that some in the pharmaceutical industry are avoiding this plant or in some cases, spending huge amounts of money to fight against its legalization. Time will tell. Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 On 7/14/2018 at 11:12 PM, Tacenda said: Heaven forbid if they do, we're doomed. I'm flabbergasted that you and others aren't as worried about pharmaceutical drugs compared to Cannabinoids that aren't deadly. How many lawsuits are out there because of deaths from prescription drugs vs. Cannabis deaths? https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/26/prescription-drugs-number-one-cause-preventable-death-in-us.aspx I have no idea where you get the idea that I am not as concerned about one thing as I am about another. If Cannabinoids are the miracle drugs you believe they are, then treat them like all other prescription medications and let the lawsuits fall where they may. Link to comment
FunOnlineMan Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I’ll try to spare you folks a bunch of block quotes, but I’m getting the sense it’s kind of the way people directly reply to each other on here. Am I seeing that right? Calm: I was interested in the focus on evidence. Just curious where people see a need for evidence and where they don’t. I could have maybe worded my question better. Thanks for taking the time to answer the first swing at it. I’ll try to clarify: On one side, we have a certain oil with anecdotal evidence pointing to healing properties, and on the other side, we have a certain oil that has anecdotal evidence pointing to divine healing properties. I was just curious why someone would roll their eyes at the one side and then maybe rant a whole bunch about someone questioning the other side. To me, true enjoyment of evidence is irrespective of the claims it should support. Kenngo: I hope this message finds you well. Sorry if I seemed to be sneering, mocking, or condescending. You certainly don’t deserve that. I’m also admittedly glad you aren’t in charge of fettering members. I’m sure you’d be fair and whatnot about it, but I think it would be hard to know if my case were to be heard by the honorable give-me-the-scientific-evidence kenngo or doesn’t-need-evidence-anymore-because-of-the-nature-of-the-claims kenngo. I’ll spare you any more insincerity, and only say that you are correct in your assumption that I prefer to believe in facts supported by evidence. I’m glad you agree sometimes, and if you want to respectfully disagree (which you’ve done quite elegantly above already), then yes, vive la difference so much. Link to comment
pogi Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Tacenda said: How about this site, bad? http://drugwarfacts.org/chapter/causes_of_death As far as I can tell, the info is accurate. I cross checked it against the CDC. Tacenda, you have to understand that this is NOT saying that pharmaceuticals are the #1 cause of preventable deaths in America. This is rating annual causes of death that are related to drug use. Opiods are #1. That number does NOT only count prescription pharmaceutical opiods, but incldes illicit opiods such as heroin as well. Those numbers break down like this: Quote The CDC reports that in 2016, 15,469 deaths involved heroin; 14,487 deaths involved natural and semi-synthetic opioids; 3,373 deaths involved methadone; and 19,413 deaths involved synthetic opioids other than methadone, a category which includes fentanyl. The sum of those numbers is greater than the total opioid involved deaths because, as noted by the CDC, "Deaths involving more than one opioid category (e.g., a death involving both methadone and a natural or semisynthetic opioid such as oxycodone) are counted in both categories." http://drugwarfacts.org/chapter/causes_of_death These numbers are not very clear as to how many deaths are related to legitimate prescription medications and synthetics made on the black market either. You can see, the numbers are very low when compared to heart disease and others: Quote Heart disease: 633,842 • Cancer: 595,930 • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 155,041 • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 146,571 • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 140,323 • Alzheimer’s disease: 110,561 • Diabetes: 79,535 • Influenza and pneumonia: 57,062 • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 49,959 • Intentional self-harm (suicide): 44,193https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm While not all heart disease is considered "preventable", the vast majority of cases are: Quote The CDC's report found that about 80 percent of deaths from coronary artery disease -- a name for heart disease caused by narrowing of the arteries which leads to reduced blood flow to the heart -- can be attributed to preventable factors like obesity, poor physical activity, heavy drinking, eating unhealthy foods and not keeping your blood pressure and cholesterol under control. These lifestyle changes could also prevent about 50 percent of stroke deaths, the report's authors added.https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cdc-200000-heart-disease-deaths-could-be-prevented-each-year/ As you can see, pharmaceuticals are not even in the same ball park. Not even CLOSE to the #1 most preventable cause of death in America. Edited July 16, 2018 by pogi 1 Link to comment
Tacenda Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 17 minutes ago, pogi said: As far as I can tell, the info is accurate. I cross checked it against the CDC. Tacenda, you have to understand that this is NOT saying that pharmaceuticals are the #1 cause of preventable deaths in America. This is rating annual causes of death that are related to drug use. Opiods are #1. That number does NOT only count prescription pharmaceutical opiods, but incldes illicit opiods such as heroin as well. Those numbers break down like this: These numbers are not very clear as to how many deaths are related to legitimate prescription medications and synthetics made on the black market either. You can see, the numbers are very low when compared to heart disease and others: While not all heart disease is considered "preventable", the vast majority of cases are: As you can see, pharmaceuticals are not even in the same ball park. Not even CLOSE to the #1 most preventable cause of death in America. How many deaths from marijuana: 0 3. Annual Number of Deaths By Selected Causes in the US, including deaths attributed to Alcohol, Tobacco, and Other Drug Use Cause of death (Data from 2015 unless otherwise noted) Number All Causes 2,712,630 Major Cardiovascular Diseases [MCD] 832,024 Diseases of Heart [subset of MCD] 633,842 Cerebrovascular Diseases [subset of MCD] 140,323 Malignant Neoplasms [Cancer] 595,930 Deaths Attributed to Tobacco Smoking (Each year from 2005 through 2009)1 480,320 Chronic Lower Respiratory Diseases 155,041 Accidents (Unintentional Injuries) [Total] 146,571 Motor Vehicle Accidents [subset of Total Accidents] 37,757 Alzheimer's Disease 110,561 Diabetes Mellitus 79,535 Influenza and Pneumonia 57,062 Drug-Induced Deaths2 55,403 Nephritis, Nephrotic Syndrome and Nephrosis 49,959 Intentional Self-Harm (Suicide) 44,193 Septicemia 40,773 Chronic Liver Disease and Cirrhosis 40,326 Alcoholic Liver Disease [subset of Chronic Liver Disease] 21,028 Injury by Firearms 36,252 Alcohol-Induced Deaths 33,171 Parkinson's Disease 27,972 Pneumonitis Due to Solids and Liquids 19,803 Homicide 17,793 Viral Hepatitis 7,461 Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) Disease 6,465 All Illicit Drugs Combined (2000)3 17,0002 Cannabis (Marijuana)4 0 Pogi, did you see that? And we are worried about self medicating with cannabis? We are worried about making it legal? For people to put some in a brownie to treat pain? For growing a plant and eating in a salad? Even smoking one puff a day to prevent Alzheimer's? (I don't do this) We are scared to make it legal? Instead we want to trust big pharma, and yes I will call it that once again. Because they are big, and corrupt. Have you ever heard, read, or seen a person that is on every medication imaginable? And when taken off how much better they are? I've seen it. Giving this evil agency rights to corrupt cannabis is not a good thing. They will package it and take away any chance of using cannabis naturally by making it only legal if you purchase it through your doctor. I know I am speaking black and white terms but this is my feeling. Pharma has killed thousands, this is clear. How many deaths from opiods: 1. Opioid Involvement in Deaths in the US Attributed to Drug Overdose According to the US Centers for Disease Control, in 2016, there were 63,632 drug overdose deaths in the United States. The CDC further estimates that of those, 42,249 deaths involved any opioid. The CDC reports that in 2016, 15,469 deaths involved heroin; 14,487 deaths involved natural and semi-synthetic opioids; 3,373 deaths involved methadone; and 19,413 deaths involved synthetic opioids other than methadone, a category which includes fentanyl. The sum of those numbers is greater than the total opioid involved deaths because, as noted by the CDC, "Deaths involving more than one opioid category (e.g., a death involving both methadone and a natural or semisynthetic opioid such as oxycodone) are counted in both categories." Hedegaard H, Warner M, Miniño AM. Drug overdose deaths in the United States, 1999–2016. NCHS Data Brief, no 294. Hyattsville, MD: National Center for Health Statistics. 2017. Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tacenda said: How many deaths from marijuana: 0 3. Annual Number of Deaths By Selected Causes in the US, including deaths attributed to Alcohol, Tobacco, and Other Drug Use Cause of death (Data from 2015 unless otherwise noted) Number All Causes 2,712,630 Major Cardiovascular Diseases [MCD] 832,024 Diseases of Heart [subset of MCD] 633,842 Cerebrovascular Diseases [subset of MCD] 140,323 Malignant Neoplasms [Cancer] 595,930 Deaths Attributed to Tobacco Smoking (Each year from 2005 through 2009)1 480,320 Chronic Lower Respiratory Diseases 155,041 Accidents (Unintentional Injuries) [Total] 146,571 Motor Vehicle Accidents [subset of Total Accidents] 37,757 Alzheimer's Disease 110,561 Diabetes Mellitus 79,535 Influenza and Pneumonia 57,062 Drug-Induced Deaths2 55,403 Nephritis, Nephrotic Syndrome and Nephrosis 49,959 Intentional Self-Harm (Suicide) 44,193 Septicemia 40,773 Chronic Liver Disease and Cirrhosis 40,326 Alcoholic Liver Disease [subset of Chronic Liver Disease] 21,028 Injury by Firearms 36,252 Alcohol-Induced Deaths 33,171 Parkinson's Disease 27,972 Pneumonitis Due to Solids and Liquids 19,803 Homicide 17,793 Viral Hepatitis 7,461 Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) Disease 6,465 All Illicit Drugs Combined (2000)3 17,0002 Cannabis (Marijuana)4 0 Pogi, did you see that? And we are worried about self medicating with cannabis? We are worried about making it legal? For people to put some in a brownie to treat pain? For growing a plant and eating in a salad? Even smoking one puff a day to prevent Alzheimer's? (I don't do this) We are scared to make it legal? Instead we want to trust big pharma, and yes I will call it that once again. Because they are big, and corrupt. Have you ever heard, read, or seen a person that is on every medication imaginable? And when taken off how much better they are? I've seen it. Giving this evil agency rights to corrupt cannabis is not a good thing. They will package it and take away any chance of using cannabis naturally by making it only legal if you purchase it through your doctor. I know I am speaking black and white terms but this is my feeling. Pharma has killed thousands, this is clear. How many deaths from opiods: 1. Opioid Involvement in Deaths in the US Attributed to Drug Overdose According to the US Centers for Disease Control, in 2016, there were 63,632 drug overdose deaths in the United States. The CDC further estimates that of those, 42,249 deaths involved any opioid. The CDC reports that in 2016, 15,469 deaths involved heroin; 14,487 deaths involved natural and semi-synthetic opioids; 3,373 deaths involved methadone; and 19,413 deaths involved synthetic opioids other than methadone, a category which includes fentanyl. The sum of those numbers is greater than the total opioid involved deaths because, as noted by the CDC, "Deaths involving more than one opioid category (e.g., a death involving both methadone and a natural or semisynthetic opioid such as oxycodone) are counted in both categories." Hedegaard H, Warner M, Miniño AM. Drug overdose deaths in the United States, 1999–2016. NCHS Data Brief, no 294. Hyattsville, MD: National Center for Health Statistics. 2017. Although I tend to support legalization, I'm pretty sure drug use contributes to homicides, vehicular accidents, and other accidents. Driving while high is just as dangerous as driving while drunk. 2 Link to comment
Tacenda Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Although I tend to support legalization, I'm pretty sure drug use contributes to homicides, vehicular accidents, and other accidents. Driving while high is just as dangerous as driving while drunk. I agree, but alcohol is legal and has pretty much zero medicinal purpose. So keep it legal, but take away all the wonderful capabilities of cannabis that has shown to cure and treat? Even help treat opioid abuse? I just want it for medicine, it's proven over and over that it helps. I want that available to people, not the high, but then again THC is what is needed in certain circumstances too. We can't discount it. I totally understand the apprehension, I get it to the nth degree. If I wasn't aware of cbd oil's wonders, I'd probably be the same. The proof is in the lives that it has changed. That's all. Edited July 16, 2018 by Tacenda Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I agree, but alcohol is legal and has pretty much zero medicinal purpose. So keep it legal, but take away all the wonderful capabilities of cannabis that has shown to cure and treat? Even help treat opioid abuse? I just want it for medicine, it's proven over and over that it helps. I want that available to people, not the high, but then again THC is what is needed in certain circumstances too. We can't discount it. I totally understand the apprehension, I get it to the nth degree. If I wasn't aware of cbd oil's wonders, I'd probably be the same. The proof is in the lives that it has changed. That's all. Again, I support legalization, as in my view, the enforcement of current laws has caused much more misery than marijuana does on its own. I was just pointing out that it, like alcohol, is not harmless. 2 Link to comment
FunOnlineMan Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Again, I support legalization, as in my view, the enforcement of current laws has caused much more misery than marijuana does on its own. I was just pointing out that it, like alcohol, is not harmless. Turning around in circles a whole bunch, like alcohol, is also not harmless. Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 1 minute ago, FunOnlineMan said: Turning around in circles a whole bunch, like alcohol, is also not harmless. Obviously. I was responding to Tacenda's post that said there were no cannabis-related deaths. I very much doubt that. 1 Link to comment
FunOnlineMan Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Obviously. I was responding to Tacenda's post that said there were no cannabis-related deaths. I very much doubt that. Would amending it to say “no deaths that wouldn’t happen if cannabis were somehow stricken from the earth” work? Because most substances in the alcohol, cannabis, opioid, aspirin, etc. groups tend to kill you without the need for high speed collisions. Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, FunOnlineMan said: Would amending it to say “no deaths that wouldn’t happen if cannabis were somehow stricken from the earth” work? Because most substances in the alcohol, cannabis, opioid, aspirin, etc. groups tend to kill you without the need for high speed collisions. Sure. I don't think Tacenda and I disagree much, and this sure isn't a hill to die on. Link to comment
Tacenda Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, FunOnlineMan said: Turning around in circles a whole bunch, like alcohol, is also not harmless. I know you kid, but what are your real feelings on CBD/THC for treatment? No silliness okay? I actually looked a little bit into your claim of olive oil. And I think it does have medicinal properties. Luckily you can purchase this over the counter in any grocery store out there. I not only believe in CBD oil, I believe in many herbs or natural means to cure disease. I used CBD oil and Tea Tree oil to rub on a case of Shingles I had a couple of months ago and my shingles was so mild compared to my MIL and mom when they had it. I bought Oregano oil recently and it's pretty powerful, so one needs to be careful not to ingest it. So I'm very open to your statement of Olive Oil being a cure for things. Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 No offense to anyone, but this thread reminds me of a 9-minute beat poem from Tim Minchin, in which he says, " You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work? - Medicine." 2 Link to comment
FunOnlineMan Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I know you kid, but what are your real feelings on CBD/THC for treatment? No silliness okay? I actually looked a little bit into your claim of olive oil. And I think it does have medicinal properties. Luckily you can purchase this over the counter in any grocery store out there. I not only believe in CBD oil, I believe in many herbs or natural means to cure disease. I used CBD oil and Tea Tree oil to rub on a case of Shingles I had a couple of months ago and my shingles was so mild compared to my MIL and mom when they had it. I bought Oregano oil recently and it's pretty powerful, so one needs to be careful not to ingest it. So I'm very open to your statement of Olive Oil being a cure for things. My strongly held conviction on the matter is that any healing properties would be a side effect. Marijuana, to me is best used to have a good time. That said, I agree with the guy who got mad at me earlier. I’d need to see clinical evidence. Such evidence is, however sparse, but I’d blame the systematic vilifying of natural good-time methods like psychedelic mushrooms and weed in favor of the accepted, though more harmful alternatives. Does it have healing properties? I don’t know. But it was a hug factor in helping me quit drinking, which, for me , was a nice blending of the beneficial nature of cannabis—even if using it as a less-harmful alternative to other mind-altering chemicals is the only “healing” property—along with the fun parts, which are, for me, the main event. Link to comment
FunOnlineMan Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 21 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Sure. I don't think Tacenda and I disagree much, and this sure isn't a hill to die on. I actually don’t think any of us really disagree right now, but I’ll die on basically any hill. I don’t know why. I love dying on hills. Link to comment
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