Sophie Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 So, I've been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints all my life, and I thought I'd pretty much heard it all, but I've never heard THIS one before.......where did they get the idea that Moroni told Joseph Smith he was from the Pleadies? Or did I just miss that morning of seminary lol Link to comment
bluebell Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Who thinks Moroni told JS that? Link to comment
ksfisher Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 18 minutes ago, Sophie said: So, I've been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints all my life, and I thought I'd pretty much heard it all, but I've never heard THIS one before.......where did they get the idea that Moroni told Joseph Smith he was from the Pleadies? Or did I just miss that morning of seminary lol Who are "they"? Link to comment
Popular Post rongo Posted May 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) I've never heard this from any source in an LDS context, but the Jehovah's Witnesses used to teach (or at least Charles Taze Russell taught) that Jehovah is located in the Pleiades constellation (the star Alcyone). There is an inordinate fascination and fixation on this star cluster among ancient peoples and modern alien colonizers/intelligent design panspermia people. I wonder where this started? (The Maya believed that earth rotated around Alcyone in a 26,000 year cycle.) Given LDS belief that God lives near a star named Kolob, I guess Alcyone/the Pleiades is as good a place as any. Edited May 12, 2018 by rongo 6 Link to comment
Popular Post Robert F. Smith Posted May 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 12, 2018 6 hours ago, bluebell said: Who thinks Moroni told JS that? “Ancient Aliens,” History Channel, July 28, 2011 (season 3, episode 10), on television – Moroni as a star being from the Pleiades. Online at https://www.history.com/shows/ancient-aliens/season-3/episode-10 . I haven't seen that program and don't have access to it now, but it does seem a rather odd claim. Some biblical and Book of Mormon names can be equated with astral geography. Lehi "Jawbone," for example, could be equated with the Hyades as the Jawbone of the Bull of Heaven (Taurus), the same Jawbone used by Samson against the Philistines, and used by the god Marduk against his enemies (in Enuma elish). Lehi could also be the Bull of Heaven himself by synecdoche (later identified with the Mithraic Bull, just as the solar hero Mithras is identified with nearby Champion Perseus -- note that Perseus is Sumerian ŠU.GI, "the Old Man," immediately following the Shepherd of Anu in the sequence of constellations). The Pleiades or "Seven Sisters" are in the shoulder of Taurus. They are pursued, though not caught, by Orion -- Artemis arranged their eternal escape. Their heliacal rising comes just before Orion in May, when good weather for sailing begins, and they set in the halcyon days of November. They are termed in Sumerian MUL.MUL “Star-cluster,” Akkadian Kakkabu “Stars, Star-cluster,” and Zappu “Bristle, Tuft, Mane (of the Bull),” Hebrew Kimah “Cluster,” and Arabic Al-Thurayya “The Little-ones.” Since Moroni originates as an ancient Jaredite name, we might etymologize it as taken from Akkadian mariannu “chariot driver,” Ugaritic mryn “noble chariot warrior; retainers, vassals” (mar-ia-ni, mariyannu). If so, we could then equate him astrologically with Sumerian ŠU.GI, Akkadian šibu, the Old Man (Perseus), the Charioteer. But the Pleiades just don't fit that equation. Generally, see David H. Kelley and Eugene F. Milone, Exploring Ancient Skies: A Survey of Ancient and Cultural Astronomy, 2nd ed. (Springer, 2011), 221 table 7.4. 5 Link to comment
Calm Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 (edited) Apparently some guy named Logan Hawkes came up with the claim since no one can find anyone else making the claim. https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/my-favorite-martian/ Quote The show explains that “according to Ancient Astronaut theorists, Moroni may in fact have been a star being, an extraterrestrial whose mission was to pass down to Smith and his followers the advanced knowledge of the Mound Builders.” The show includes clips from an interview with Logan Hawkes, author of Close Encounters of the Old West, who states that “Moronee [sic] claimed to be from the Pleiades star cluster.” The theory he mixed up Jehovah Witnesses with Mormons and came up with this makes the most sense to me...whether it was intentional or bizarre memory reconstruction, don't know. Sadly it appears to have been included in a history text for Austin Community College: https://www.coursehero.com/file/p6smeng/o-Moroni-told-Smith-hed-lived-in-the-Americas-in-the-4th-5th-century-AD-but-was/ It also states that JS was dragged out of the window of Carthage jail or was hit in the head with a rock and fell out. Love to know who the teacher is. Edited May 12, 2018 by Calm 1 Link to comment
ALarson Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 17 hours ago, Sophie said: So, I've been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints all my life, and I thought I'd pretty much heard it all, but I've never heard THIS one before.......where did they get the idea that Moroni told Joseph Smith he was from the Pleadies? Or did I just miss that morning of seminary lol I found this doing a search online: Quote I think I have a hypothesis about the Mormon-Pleiades connection. According to their scriptures, Moroni is hails from Kolob, which is a star or planet closest to God. God's seat, in the Mormon cosmology, is at the center of the universe, which locates Kolob, as the place closest to God, near the center of the universe. Now the Pleiades were thought by some 19th century astronomers to be the geometrical center of the universe. This idea was embraced by the early Jehovah's Witnesses, apparently leading them to place their God there as well. At least one Mormon text, "The Book of Abraham", seems to associate Kolob with the Pleiades. Does anyone know what they mean regarding The Book of Abraham associating Kolob with the Pleiades? 2 Link to comment
Lagrange Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 14 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Since Moroni originates as an ancient Jaredite name, we might etymologize it as taken from Akkadian mariannu “chariot driver,” Ugaritic mryn “noble chariot warrior; retainers, vassals” (mar-ia-ni, mariyannu). If so, we could then equate him astrologically with Sumerian ŠU.GI, Akkadian šibu, the Old Man (Perseus), the Charioteer. But the Pleiades just don't fit that equation. Interesting factoid, that! Has kind of a Tocharian and Mauryan overtone to it. Link to comment
Robert F. Smith Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Lagrange said: Interesting factoid, that! Has kind of a Tocharian and Mauryan overtone to it. Yes, but earlier still, back to Hittite and Mitannian times, but Indo-European in ultimate origin just the same. I actually prefer an etymology same as the Akkadian proper name Mu-ra-ni “My-Cub” (from Akkadian mūrānu, mīrānu, merānu “cub; pup” = Sumerian UR.TUR.[RA] = kalbu; it was also used in PNs such as Mu-ra-nu-dGu-la “Young-Dog-of-Gula”; Uqâ-mu-ra-ni “I-Waited-for-My-Puppy”; DUMU mMu-ra-ni; Me-ra-ni; and fMu-ra-na-tum (NB).[1] In that case, Moronihah would mean “Son-of-YHWH, Pup-of-YHWH,” as if biblical Hebrew *mōrônîyahû -- with theophoric YHH (= YAHU) which is found on Elephantine ostraca and papyri, e.g., Documents 1:2 and 13:14,[2] and is considered by Koehler & Baumgartner to be equivalent to YHWH.[3] [1] Chicago Assyrian Dictionary “M” II:106. Cf. Book of Mormon Morianton, Moriantum. [2] A. Cowley, Aramaic Papyri of the Fifth Century B.C. (1923); J. R. Harris, ed., The Legacy of Egypt, 2nd ed., 261 n. 1; Porten, Archives, 235. [3] Koehler & Baumgartner, HALOT, II:395, list YHH along with other non-biblical instances of YHWH. D. N. Freedman says that -yahu is pre-exilic, while -yah is post-exilic (cited in A. Berlin, Zephaniah, 67). 1 Link to comment
Spiritualgifts Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Where is Pleiades in conjunction to Kolob? Link to comment
The Nehor Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) The phrase “according to ancient astronaut theorists” should be heard as “according to tinfoil hat wearing nutjobs”. Edited March 26, 2019 by The Nehor 3 Link to comment
Stargazer Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Spiritualgifts said: Where is Pleiades in conjunction to Kolob? God knows. Literally. 🙂 Oh, all right. You're new here, so you might not get it. We have no idea where Kolob is. It is named in the Book of Abraham, but that's all. For all we know it isn't even in this galaxy. It's somewhere. But its Right Ascension and Declination (stellar coordinates) have not been stated. Edited March 26, 2019 by Stargazer 1 Link to comment
Stargazer Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 44 minutes ago, The Nehor said: The phrase “according to ancient astronaut theorists” should be heard as “according to tinfoil hat wearing nutjobs”. How dare you disrespect Erich von Däniken like that!!!! 😡 2 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Stargazer said: How dare you disrespect Erich von Däniken like that!!!! 😡 Sorry, my bad. I left out “mentally subnormal” and “makes Norse and Babylonian creation myths look academically rigorous by comparison”. Sorry, I will try not make similar errors in the future. 2 Link to comment
Spiritualgifts Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 5 hours ago, Stargazer said: God knows. Literally. 🙂 Oh, all right. You're new here, so you might not get it. We have no idea where Kolob is. It is named in the Book of Abraham, but that's all. For all we know it isn't even in this galaxy. It's somewhere. But its Right Ascension and Declination (stellar coordinates) have not been stated. Link to comment
Spiritualgifts Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 How about this Therory. Maybe each race is from different planets, maybe it's not just one Planet. Jesus appeared all over the world to people. They all have their own way to get to the same place. Perhaps we are all supposed learn from each other. On the Topic of Galaxies, the milky way has a black hole but I've read that once you go through the black hole your stuck. Scholars just discovered another black hole over 50 million light years away. This black hole is said to be larger than the milky way galaxy. Link to comment
Spiritualgifts Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/scientists-reveal-images-made-black-hole-62297112 Link to comment
Calm Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Spiritualgifts said: Maybe each race is from different planets Are you talking about the races of humanity? There is no evidence or reason I can think of to assume we originated from different places. Edited April 10, 2019 by Calm Link to comment
RevTestament Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 On 3/26/2019 at 11:23 AM, Stargazer said: God knows. Literally. 🙂 Oh, all right. You're new here, so you might not get it. We have no idea where Kolob is. It is named in the Book of Abraham, but that's all. For all we know it isn't even in this galaxy. It's somewhere. But its Right Ascension and Declination (stellar coordinates) have not been stated. I just got this feeling it is in Facsimile #2. Link to comment
Stargazer Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 On 4/10/2019 at 9:52 PM, RevTestament said: I just got this feeling it is in Facsimile #2. Well, if it is, I don't see it. Do you think there is some kind of coordinates in the image? If so, why would such be put there? Link to comment
The Nehor Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Moroni’s accent always seemed more like he was from the Hyades cluster but I am not a linguist. 3 Link to comment
AnchAstro Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Getting "stuck in a black hole." Let that one slip by eh? You guys are really funny! And your poking fun at Van Danniken and the Ancient Astronaut theorists. Are you stating that you are better than them because of your late made-up religeon? You guys know it all - I doubt it! Link to comment
longview Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 On 4/11/2019 at 5:24 PM, Stargazer said: Well, if it is, I don't see it. Do you think there is some kind of coordinates in the image? If so, why would such be put there? According to Abraham 3 the middle of the diagram (item 1) is Kolob (which could be the super massive black hole in the center of the Milky Way Galaxy). Link to comment
Stargazer Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 hours ago, longview said: According to Abraham 3 the middle of the diagram (item 1) is Kolob (which could be the super massive black hole in the center of the Milky Way Galaxy). Kolob needn't be in our galaxy at all. Link to comment
The Nehor Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 On 10/5/2019 at 4:43 AM, AnchAstro said: Getting "stuck in a black hole." Let that one slip by eh? You guys are really funny! And your poking fun at Van Danniken and the Ancient Astronaut theorists. Are you stating that you are better than them because of your late made-up religeon? You guys know it all - I doubt it! Yes, I think we are better but it is a pretty low bar. Link to comment
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