Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

GOD CODE


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, LittleNipper said:

 I don't accept the Book of Mormon because it infringes on the Bible and never claims to be a living book.

How does it infringe on the Bible in your view?

How does it not claim to be "a living book?" It does invite the reader to pray about it -- to know it is true, That seems very "living." Does the Bible do that?

Link to comment
10 hours ago, RevTestament said:

How does it infringe on the Bible in your view?

How does it not claim to be "a living book?" It does invite the reader to pray about it -- to know it is true, That seems very "living." Does the Bible do that?

Did Joseph Smith believe that the Bible had been corrupted and that the Book of Mormon was pristine? Would such a belief in your opinion give more pre eminence to the Bible? Having a work of literature that presents merely a story and having a book that contains layers and layers of insight and deeper meaning with every read is unfathomably worlds apart -----  the thing only the supernatural might inspire.

Link to comment
26 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

Did Joseph Smith believe that the Bible had been corrupted and that the Book of Mormon was pristine? Would such a belief in your opinion give more pre eminence to the Bible?

Joseph Smith did believe that parts of the Bible were corrupted (got news for you; it was) but nowhere said that the Book of Mormon was pristine.  He did say, one year after he made final alterations on it, that the Book of Mormon was the most correct book of any on earth and that a man would get nearer to God by its precepts than any other book.  In LDS practice, the Bible is book number one in the list of the LDS canon.  Two years out of four are dedicated to the Bible and one each for the other scriptures in said canon.  The other books of scripture are used to shed more light on the Bible and offer correctives to potential errors and issues.

Quote

Having a work of literature that presents merely a story and having a book that contains layers and layers of insight and deeper meaning with every read is unfathomably worlds apart -----  the thing only the supernatural might inspire.

Ah, so you're describing the Book of Mormon.  Every time I read and reread that book I come across layers and layers of new insights and new thoughts occur to me.  Hundreds of LDS and other scholars also seem to find new insights and deeper meanings over time, too.  Entire books have been written to discuss these, including books on Hebrew poetry, insights and evidences of the Book of Mormon internal to the text as well as insights relating to archaeological and anthropological constructs.

I've found many even after more than 50 reads of the text (I lost count after 50), and I learn something new each and every time I read it.  In fact, just a couple years or so I realized, as I was reading an epistle to a man written by Moroni, as well as those by others, that they read a lot like Egyptian letters between officials and others, right down to the little taunts and insults.  In other texts I recalled other phrases and ways of looking at things that are rather Egyptian in their feel.  There is a lot of Hebraic poetry in the Book of Mormon, too.  Seeing underlying structure is interesting and illuminating.  Even the war passages have interesting things that can help illustrate aspects of our own lives.

But there're other insights into the scripture of the Book of Mormon that I find while reading in the Spirit.  I learn something new that applies to the text and how it applies to my life just about each and every time I read it.  So, by your own description the Book of Mormon must have supernatural inspiration.  Thanks for that additional insight.

Now, what about the Qur'an? Muslims say the same thing as you did about the Qur'an.  It has layers and layers of meanings in just the Arabic text alone.  No English translation can be regarded as authentically and capably translating each and every layer of meaning.  Your definition could lend attribution of inspiration to the Qur'an, too.

Edited by MormonMason
Link to comment

Okay, so I found an online tool that is able to search for ELS codes (see, e.g., here), and you will not believe what I found. 

By searching only the text of 3 Nephi 11, I was able to find, not one, but multiple hidden codes!

And what's more impressive - nay, statistically impossible - is that these encrypted codes were able to survive from their original script through the translation process into English. This could only happen if the codes were intentional!

Here's a quick run-down of some of the key words I was able to find after only two minutes of searching, so you can only imagine how much more there is just waiting to be found!

        Key Word: yhwh
        Result: 5 or more occurrences!
        (note: the program stops searching after it finds 5 hits)

        Key Word: love
        Result 5 or more occurrences!

        Key Word: true
        Result: 5 or more occurrences!

        Key Word: rush
        Result: 5 or more occurrences!

        Key Word: taco
        Result: 5 or more occurrences!

        Key Word: potter
        Result: 1 occurrence

        Key Word: voldemort
        Result: 0 occurrences!

 

So, there you have it! Here, in the crowning chapter of the Book of Mormon, we see scripture proclaiming Christ as the God of the Old Testament, identifying His key teaching of love, and testifying of the book's own truthfulness.

PLUS, it accurately identifies the greatest prog rock band of all time, references one of the tastiest foods known to man, and is even able to predict the ultimate victor from of one of the most over-hyped children's books of our generation! 

Obviously, the Book of Mormon is God-breathed. Q.E.D.

Just send me a PM with your address LittleNipper, and I'll have the missionaries over to your place ASAP. 

 

Link to comment
32 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

Did Joseph Smith believe that the Bible had been corrupted and that the Book of Mormon was pristine?

Basically, yes. What Bible do you use? Do you use a Catholic Bible? If not, why not?

Quote

Would such a belief in your opinion give more pre eminence to the Bible?

I believe the Bible is pre-eminent. However, that doesn't address your claim that the Book of Mormon "infringes" on the Bible. On the contrary. It supports it, and assists in interpreting it. As you note, the Bible has numerous layers - this causes different people to interpret it differently. One purpose of the BoM is to clarify sections of the Bible so its meaning is more clear and direct.

Quote

 Having a work of literature that presents merely a story and having a book that contains layers and layers of insight and deeper meaning with every read is unfathomably worlds apart -----  the thing only the supernatural might inspire.

The Book of Mormon is not merely a story. If so, it would not possibly have any "infringement" on the Bible. It clarifies Biblical prophecies. It is specifically designed to address concerns in the seventh seal ie "the millennium." It is also another witness of Biblical prophecies. 

Link to comment
13 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

Mr. Smith is using the oldest texts which possess original hebrew lettering.  The Leningrad copy is among those mentioned. He also is not tampering with random passages but finding words through repeated spacing (say every 16th letter). 

Yeah, equidistant letter sequencing.  As I said, someone I know studied that.  After some experimentation he gave it up because it was too random.  Again, he went beyond the one that concerned "Yeshua" in the Book of Isaiah, and counting further got "Yeshua' blood false prophet" out of it.  Another gave him "Muhammad is God".  That doesn't sound very inspirational.

I've even seen people do the exact same thing with the text of Moby Dɨck!

The problem is that the Hebrew text has been messed with by scribes.  When the Torah was written, certain letters were not used the way they are now and were not present.  How does the counting work with the older text that didn't have some of those letters to begin with?

There are some big assumptions on the website you linked, too.

Quote

The Chamberlain Key presents empirical evidence that the oldest extant Hebrew Biblical texts are vastly more multifaceted and extraordinary than previously acknowledged.

The Dead Sea Scrolls read differently.  The older texts read even more differently.  The original texts would have read yet more differently.  So, how does the above work in light of that?

Quote

The sections of the ancient texts which Biblical Hebrew experts agree are the most pristine are in fact encrypted with stunningly detailed intelligent messages; messages that are thematically consistent with the open text of both the Old and New Testament.

What does he mean by "most pristine"? Take the Torah for instance.  Many yods and waws weren't originally in the Hebrew text of the Torah.  They were added later after they started using them to indicate pronunciation.  When Moses wrote it they weren't using them that way.  Wouldn't adding them change up the counts and produce differing results?

Quote

In the fall of 1998, I was able for the first time, like many other scholars around the world, to put my hands on the Leningrad Codex facsimile edition, a book containing the oldest complete manuscript of the Hebrew Bible.

Sure, it's the oldest complete manuscript buts its contents aren't the oldest.  It's been altered before the Leningrad Codex was written.

Quote

This is where all the translations of the Old Testament, or what the Jews call the Tanakh, originate.

No, actually it's not the origination of all the translations of the Old Testament.  Douay-Rheims came from the Latin Vulgate.  The King James Version came from a mixture of the Latin Vulgate, a Latin commentary and translation of the Hebrew, other English translations, and the Hebrew of the Bomberg Second Rabbinic Bible.  The King James Version translators also didn't make use of the Leningrad Codex.  Neither did the Geneva Bible or a bunch of others.  Maybe many of the newer ones come from Leningrad but certainly not all of them.

Quote

I’ve spent the last 15 years running my initial observations through a gauntlet of analysis by experts. I was very fortunate, because of my professional contacts, to have ready access to scientists and scholars like Dr. Eugene Ulrich.

Cripes!  Now I'm starting to doubt the validity of some of his work with the Dead Sea Scrolls!  I may have to go back and check it all before I can use any of it anymore.  The last time I did that I found that I had to toss out a lot of what Eisenman said about the Dead Sea Scrolls!

Quote

What I’m describing are the actual physical repositories for manuscripts, scrolls, and artifacts that the Christian disciples had in their possession in the first century A.D.

 

The Christian disciples in the first century AD were using the Septuagint and other Greek translations for most of their quotes and readings when they weren't reading the Gospels.  So, what does the above have to do with them and the "Chamberlain Key" methodology? Sorry, but color me skeptical.

Edited by MormonMason
Link to comment
Quote

As I examined the original Hebrew text in the Leningrad Codex, I went straight for Genesis chapter 30, 20 through 25, to see if I might find anything hidden there. I found it immediately. There in Genesis chapter 30, 20 through 25, I found the Hebrew letters of my own name encrypted in the text at a perfect equidistant skip of 16. The odds of it being there by chance are astronomical, many billions to one. This was absolutely unbelievable.

In that text the word אלהים appears at least four times.  When Moses wrote it Hebrew did not use certain letters to assist with pronunciation like they do now.  They didn't start doing that until monarchic times.  For instance, Moses would originally have written אלהים as אלהמ.  (They didn't have final forms, either.)  God inspired it as Moses wrote it.  The entire sequence would have been thrown off by at least four letters.  More of the count would have been thrown off if we took out every one of the characters functioning as Matres Lectionis (ו, ה, א and י) from the Hebrew text Chamberlain used to come up with his example.

It's more like he statistically lucked out on how the scribes modified the text with a 22-character alphabetic set and centuries later adopted the system of Matres Lectionis.  His current "Key" would not have worked the same with several of the original texts of the Tanakh, particularly the Torah.

Edited by MormonMason
Link to comment
23 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The History Channel, known for their strict adherence to the evidence without ever dipping into sensationalism.

ad02mch.jpg

 

Let me clue you in on a little known secret. You can lie on TV. This God Code and Bible Code crap has been around for decades now. One guy wanted to disprove it so he showed that you could pull out just as many secret messages from Moby ****. Morons then assumed that Melville was trying to hide secret messages in his book too.

Running in here after watching a goofy documentary and throwing it out as a smug “gotcha” just reveals you as a credulous idiot.

Be a little more skeptical and a little less credulous and you can avoid this kind of humiliation in the future. Namaste.

It just ain't your daddy's History Chanel any more.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

Did Joseph Smith believe that the Bible had been corrupted and that the Book of Mormon was pristine? Would such a belief in your opinion give more pre eminence to the Bible? Having a work of literature that presents merely a story and having a book that contains layers and layers of insight and deeper meaning with every read is unfathomably worlds apart -----  the thing only the supernatural might inspire.

You want to go there? Really? Being layered literature is how you are going to defend the Bible as unique and that only supernatural insight can make those layers happen? Do you just not read much? You do realize that almost all great literature has layers of insight right? I would submit that both the Book of Mormon and the Bible meet that criteria. But they are not alone.

So does The Lord of the Rings, Paradise Lost, War and Peace, Les Miserables, Ulysses, Hamlet, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Moby ****, Don Quixote, The Great Gadsby, The Odyssey, The Wind in the Willows, The Divine Comedy, Animal Farm, The Iliad, Wuthering Heights, Faust, Heart of Darkness, Pride and Prejudice, Nineteen Eighty Four, King Lear, The Metamorphosis, The Grapes of Wrath, The Count of Monte Cristo, Pale Fire, Little Women, Doctor Zhivago, Great Expectations, The Stand, The Call of the Wild, The Trial, The Aeneid, The Scarlet Letter, To Kill a Mockingbird, Gone with the Wind, A Tale of Two Cities, and those are just the ones that come off the top of my head. If I wandered over to my bookcase I could double that list easily. Give me Google to refresh my memory and the list would expand exponentially. So either they were all supernaturally inspired or your ill-thought out statement falls apart.

I would agree that the Bible has a unique spiritual power to unlock revelation (as does most scripture) but to say that a book being layered makes it divine means you need to add a LOT of books to your canon.

Link to comment
16 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

You want to go there? Really? Being layered literature is how you are going to defend the Bible as unique and that only supernatural insight can make those layers happen? Do you just not read much? You do realize that almost all great literature has layers of insight right? I would submit that both the Book of Mormon and the Bible meet that criteria. But they are not alone.

So does The Lord of the Rings, Paradise Lost, War and Peace, Les Miserables, Ulysses, Hamlet, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Moby ****, Don Quixote, The Great Gadsby, The Odyssey, The Wind in the Willows, The Divine Comedy, Animal Farm, The Iliad, Wuthering Heights, Faust, Heart of Darkness, Pride and Prejudice, Nineteen Eighty Four, King Lear, The Metamorphosis, The Grapes of Wrath, The Count of Monte Cristo, Pale Fire, Little Women, Doctor Zhivago, Great Expectations, The Stand, The Call of the Wild, The Trial, The Aeneid, The Scarlet Letter, To Kill a Mockingbird, Gone with the Wind, A Tale of Two Cities, and those are just the ones that come off the top of my head. If I wandered over to my bookcase I could double that list easily. Give me Google to refresh my memory and the list would expand exponentially. So either they were all supernaturally inspired or your ill-thought out statement falls apart.

I would agree that the Bible has a unique spiritual power to unlock revelation (as does most scripture) but to say that a book being layered makes it divine means you need to add a LOT of books to your canon.

As I mentioned concerning the Arabic Qur'an and English translations.  It also can fit this same kind of thinking.

Link to comment
On 4/25/2018 at 8:10 PM, LittleNipper said:

I saw a interesting show regarding what has been labeled the spiritual DNA of the Bible. If this is indeed a fact, shouldn't the Book of Mormon also reveal the GOD CODE supposedly possessing the living DNA of the HOLY BIBLE. And if indeed the Book of Mormon doesn't share the DNA with the HOLY BIBLE, wouldn't that in fact undermine the supposed authenticity of the Book of Mormon as being inerrant and GOD inspired? The Bible has always been referred to by its adherents as the LIVING WORD OF GOD. Is this not true with regards to the Book of Mormon? Is anyone finding coded messages within the Book of Mormon? The Book of Mormon is believed by those who trust it as the most uncorrupt text because of its most recent discovery and direct translation from ORIGINAL texts that the angel took back to heaven... If the Bible contains GOD's coded messages, shouldn't also the Book of Mormon? 

You can find coded messages in anything. It's pretty much just a Rorschach test.

Having said that I was hoping for a discussion of cheat codes in Doom or Doom 2.

Edited by Gray
Link to comment
26 minutes ago, Gray said:

You can find coded messages in anything. It's pretty much just a Rorschach test.

During my sophomore year in high school I took honors trigonometry for my math course.

On the first day of class, the teacher passed around a sign-up sheet. If you participated in any sort of extracurricular activity, you were supposed to write down your name and elective on the sheet.

He then went on to explain how he believed that the UIL's no-pass no-play policy deterred students from being willing to take hard classes and challenge themselves academically.

He said we wouldn't have to worry about that in his class. His speech went something like, "If you demonstrate that you are willing to work hard, you don't need to worry about your electives. If you are struggling, you will have to complete extra assignments, and you may need to come in after school for tutoring, or retake tests - but if you show me you are really trying to learn the material, you will not fail my class. I have a graduate degree in mathematics, and I can get a 70 out of any set of numbers you give me." 

That's what I always think of when these 'bible code' type things arise. If you have a large enough data set, you ought to be able to get pretty much anything you want out of it.

 

Quote

Having said that I was hoping for a discussion of cheat codes in Doom or Doom 2.

Well, The Nehor did mention Romance of the Three Kingdoms, but I think he was talking about the book - not the video game. 

 

Link to comment
9 hours ago, Amulek said:

Well, The Nehor did mention Romance of the Three Kingdoms, but I think he was talking about the book - not the video game. 

Yes, I like the book. Just started listening to a podcast where a native Chinese guy basically goes through it giving context and background that can be unclear.

I did used to play that game some as a teen. Cao Cao for the win!!!!!!!

Link to comment
11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yes, I like the book. Just started listening to a podcast where a native Chinese guy basically goes through it giving context and background that can be unclear.

I did used to play that game some as a teen. Cao Cao for the win!!!!!!!

That's always a good approach to some foreign texts and books expressing foreign ideas.  Just the other day someone I know expressed his displeasure with a recent Canterbury Classics volume containing a reprint of an English translation of the Analects of Kung Fu Tzu (Confucius) he had just purchased.  After a few "huh?" moments during the course of reading he got so fed up with the volume he went and purchased a bilingual Chinese-English edition of the Analects and three other classical Chinese texts with lots of footnotes.  Over a thousand pages to make better sense of what he now calls a "shelf decoration".  (I suppose that's the old fart's equivalent to a podcast.) ;)

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...