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The Demise of Scouting


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25 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I keep forgetting that the BSA and scouting in other countries are not related.

They are part of the same world wide scouting community but i believe each country is able to make their own variations to rules,  uniform and programs.  

Edited to add - both organisations belong to the world organisation of scouting,  like many other countries, but each is an independent organisation.  

NB remember scouting began in the UK!

Edited by sheilauk
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BSA will probably have to do some belt tightening, maybe make badges and awards cheaper, etc. to encourage more participants.  It won't probably need as many administrators at the higher levels given the number of troops will be dropping as the Church leaves, so that might be some money saved.   While it will be a bigger shock in the States as there was a higher percentage of Scouts that were LDS here than elsewhere, chances are if they pay attention to the various models in the rest of the world, it may take a decade or two to recover but they should survive.

Edited by Calm
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4 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

They are part of the same world wide scouting community but i believe each country is able to make their own variations to rules,  uniform and programs.  

Another term for it might be a worldwide movement.

Interesting to note that some despotic regimes copied the Scouting movement for their own nationalistic purposes. One version was Hitler Youth. The other was Young Pioneers in socialist countries such as the USSR, communist China and (prior to the collapse of the Berlin Wall) the German Democratic Republic.

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12 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Another term for it might be a worldwide movement.

Thanks, those are the better words I was searching for and couldn't think of! (its late here and I'm tired!)☺

Edited by sheilauk
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6 hours ago, Oliblish said:

Yes, I see no reason for anyone to get all upset when females are allowed to do a couple of things that were exclusively for the boy's club in the past.  No need to worry, there are still plenty of things that only the dudes are able to do so we can still feel special.

And after all, those dirty, filthy boys simply don't need to have activities that are just suited for boys.  Boys are just passe and they need to understand that girls are the new power center that anyone is concerned about.  Stupid boys....they are just a pain in the backside.

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9 hours ago, ALarson said:

Do you mean "just" for boys?  

This will be interesting to watch from here, but I don't believe it's a negative thing.  If the church sticks with the Cub Scout program, why couldn't there be girls involved?  There are already women called to serve as leaders.  The camp outs would probably be the trickiest to work out....

Yes, just for boys. 

That’s the concept. There is absolutely nothing wrong with all boy or all girl activities. 

 

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5 hours ago, Calm said:

BSA will probably have to do some belt tightening, maybe make badges and awards cheaper, etc. to encourage more participants.  It won't probably need as many administrators at the higher levels given the number of troops will be dropping as the Church leaves, so that might be some money saved.   While it will be a bigger shock in the States as there was a higher percentage of Scouts that were LDS here than elsewhere, chances are if they pay attention to the various models in the rest of the world, it may take a decade or two to recover but they should survive.

The LDS are not the only religious groups dropping out of Scouting and starting their own programs. 

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37 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I get the sarcasm, but you hit on the truth...we are entering a brave new world where boys as we knew them are being left behind or medicated if they can’t conform. Time will tell if this is a good move. 

I think it's a very bad idea.  Boyscouts helped instill morals long ago, the forced conformity and favoring of girls (just my opinion) at the expense of young men is already taking it's toll.  That kid who shot up the school in conneticut was on meds since he was a little kid, mom and dad who were divorced didn't want to deal with him, neither did the schools.  We're totally paying for this now.

Oh, and the military is noticing too...

http://time.com/2938158/youth-fail-to-qualify-military-service/

 

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10 hours ago, Oliblish said:

Yes, I see no reason for anyone to get all upset when females are allowed to do a couple of things that were exclusively for the boy's club in the past.  No need to worry, there are still plenty of things that only the dudes are able to do so we can still feel special.

I don't think so. The male gender is under attack by progressive groupings. According to the mantra, the male needs to be detoxed from its gendered role. In the past, it was quite a safe space to have the genders separated in the scouts. The boys could bond with other boys and girls could bond with other girls in group activities. Also, now that the scouts will be coed, the muslim population will begin to withdraw from the scouts since many parents do not believe that their daughters should be near boys in such situations. Nor will they allow their daugthers to be around male scout leaders. And mormons should stress the same because of the chasity issue.

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2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I get the sarcasm, but you hit on the truth...we are entering a brave new world where boys as we knew them are being left behind or medicated if they can’t conform. Time will tell if this is a good move. 

Why would it ever be a good move to medicate boys who seem not to conform? The US is a over medicated country where young men get medicated for being over active. The neutered male gender will react accordingly and we see it being played out on the streets: drugs, suicide, violence etc. One problem is that I never heard of a young violent male shooter being mentally ill. Not if they were on medication. The news keeps this quiet.

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10 hours ago, sheilauk said:

Not at all.  No groups, no callings,  no meetings.  The scouts are completely separate.   of course some children are members of their local groups,  but that's their choice and in addition to any church activities.  UK scouting have their own campgrounds which they hire out so church youth camps have been held at scout campgrounds for convenience, but no official links.  

I think there used to be some connection in some places in the UK.  When I was at Cheltenham in the early 70's not a word about Scouts was ever breathed, but my wife tells me that Worthing or Brighton used to have Scouting activities as part of the Church program.  Not sure if that was official or just a local wrinkle, though.

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9 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Yes, just for boys. 

That’s the concept. There is absolutely nothing wrong with all boy or all girl activities. 

 

I agree.  And, there's also nothing wrong with co-ed activities or including girls in something that will teach them skills and allow them to have some of the great experiences that so far have been for boys only.

Edited by ALarson
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8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I get the sarcasm, but you hit on the truth...we are entering a brave new world where boys as we knew them are being left behind or medicated if they can’t conform. Time will tell if this is a good move. 

Consistently I hear about books on society's failure with boys, but no body talk about it because it does not meet the political agenda.  If a boy/man did not rape someone; drop out of school; or put out in athletics then they just need to shut up and stay in the corner while we make girls "strong" (Gads, I hate that term for little girls, "I just want to make them strong", Oh, give me a friggin brake).

Boys are not allowed to be boys and they cannot have anything that is for boys.  We need to take care of girls because after all, they are exceling in school, they are exceling in college, and they are exceling in their careers....and they are failing at home because motherhood and all that stuff is just too confining and ickey. And boys?  Who the heck cares. 

 

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While every club, organization, or group that was for boys or men has been deemed evil, sexist, etc. and been forced to accept girls/women we now have....wait for it....clubs and organizations that are just for women.  Yes, their point is that they just need a place for women to hang out with other women, network, enjoy some social times with just other women without having to deal with the great evil - men.  Yup, all the while we have men shaking their heads in agreement that those terrible boys and men should accept girls after all girls should not be excluded from anything and everything that boys/men do.  

Just for Women article 1 article 2, article 3, article 4 - I love hypocrisy.  This only reinforces my belief that it was never about girls or women - it was always about power. Who has it, who wants it, and who is going to get it.  Equality?  What a crock.

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9 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I get the sarcasm, but you hit on the truth...we are entering a brave new world where boys as we knew them are being left behind or medicated if they can’t conform. Time will tell if this is a good move. 

If we can make them effeminate or, maybe even sorta of remove that terrible testosterone from them, then they can just do all the manual, ickey, dirty work and stay out of the way of the new brillant women we could get somewhere in the new horizons being offered by the Left.

And we are training them in college to identify misogyny - anything stated negative about females is misogynistic and evil.  Boys/men are just simply bad and knowing this is simply being enlightened and pro women. 

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1 hour ago, Storm Rider said:

Consistently I hear about books on society's failure with boys, but no body talk about it because it does not meet the political agenda.  If a boy/man did not rape someone; drop out of school; or put out in athletics then they just need to shut up and stay in the corner while we make girls "strong" (Gads, I hate that term for little girls, "I just want to make them strong", Oh, give me a friggin brake).

Boys are not allowed to be boys and they cannot have anything that is for boys.  We need to take care of girls because after all, they are exceling in school, they are exceling in college, and they are exceling in their careers....and they are failing at home because motherhood and all that stuff is just too confining and ickey. And boys?  Who the heck cares. 

 

Actually it is talked about quite a bit. You must be missing it. I hear about it more in education circles than other places.

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59 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

While every club, organization, or group that was for boys or men has been deemed evil, sexist, etc. and been forced to accept girls/women we now have....wait for it....clubs and organizations that are just for women.  Yes, their point is that they just need a place for women to hang out with other women, network, enjoy some social times with just other women without having to deal with the great evil - men.  Yup, all the while we have men shaking their heads in agreement that those terrible boys and men should accept girls after all girls should not be excluded from anything and everything that boys/men do.  

Just for Women article 1 article 2, article 3, article 4 - I love hypocrisy.  This only reinforces my belief that it was never about girls or women - it was always about power. Who has it, who wants it, and who is going to get it.  Equality?  What a crock.

It is about men/women, equality AND power. I think it is funny to criticize it because you have found it is about power. If men have all the power is that a bad thing? If not then it shouldn't be a bad thing if women have it all.

Personally, I DO think that when men or women have it all it is a bad thing and that power shared between them is a good thing. That's really what equality is all about. I'm trying very hard to see how people think you could have equality without shared power. 

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8 hours ago, why me said:

I don't think so. The male gender is under attack by progressive groupings. According to the mantra, the male needs to be detoxed from its gendered role. In the past, it was quite a safe space to have the genders separated in the scouts. The boys could bond with other boys and girls could bond with other girls in group activities. Also, now that the scouts will be coed, the muslim population will begin to withdraw from the scouts since many parents do not believe that their daughters should be near boys in such situations. Nor will they allow their daugthers to be around male scout leaders. And mormons should stress the same because of the chasity issue.

I can't tell if this is satire or not....

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2 hours ago, ALarson said:

I agree.  And, there's also nothing wrong with co-ed activities or including girls in something that will teach them skills and allow them to have some of the great experiences that so far have been for boys only.

No one is saying there is something wrong with co-ed activities unless they involve physical or intimate contact or situations.. There are plenty of people saying there is something wrong with all-male activities. 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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On 4/24/2018 at 11:15 AM, The Nehor said:

A lot of insane hyperbole in this thread.

Well, Sister Gui and I have raised 6 boys. We have a combined 62 years teaching in the public schools. I have held every Scouting position from Den Leader to District Commissioner to Summer Camp Director. We have noticed the changes. They are not subtle.

Edited by Bernard Gui
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23 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

No one is saying there is something wrong with co-ed activities. There are plenty of people saying there is something wrong with all-male activities. 

I haven't seen anyone state there is "something wrong with all-male activities".  But the whole premise of this thread you started is your objection to allowing girls into the Cub Scout program and claiming this will cause it to "fail" (the title of this thread is "The Demise of Scouting").

The whining by some here about how tragic it is that girls and women can now be a part of some things that used to be "men only" or "boys only" is a bit embarrassing, IMO. 

Who does it hurt to allow some girls to benefit from the skills taught and experiences provided through the Cub Scout program?  Can you name anything specific here regarding the harm this may cause?

Edited by ALarson
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9 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I haven't seen anyone state there is "something wrong with all-male activities".  But the whole premise of this thread you started is your objection to allowing girls into the Cub Scout program and claiming this will cause it to "fail" (the title of this thread is "The Demise of Scouting").

The whining by some here about how tragic it is that girls and women can now be a part of some things that used to be "men only" or "boys only" is a bit embarrassing, IMO. 

Who does it hurt to allow some girls to benefit from the skills taught and experiences provided through the Cub Scout program?  Can you name anything specific here regarding the harm this may cause?

Your premise that girls cannot learn skills or have experiences unless boys are present is false.

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