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Church Statement on Medical Marijuana


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1 hour ago, pogi said:

Prescription medications are often inhaled with vapors - "vaping".  Smoking, while effective, is not recommended due to the damage it can cause to the lungs.  But it can be a quicker delivery method to the brain vs ingesting a pill.  Prescription pain pills, for example, are often smoked for a more instantaneous and bigger high. 

So, yes, smoking is effective for medicinal uses, but it is best to avoid the side effects of smoke. 

Are there medications that are prescribed to be taken by smoking them?

Are there other plant parts, (leaves, buds)  that are prescribed by doctors (I'm talking about whole plant parts, not drugs that are taken and refined from a plant)?

 

Is there an illness or a condition that a doctor will fill out a prescription to go to  a drug store, get obtain leaves (or flowers, or buds) from X plant, light the plant on fire and breath in the smoke?

Edited by Danzo
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2 hours ago, Danzo said:

Is there an illness or a condition that a doctor will fill out a prescription to go to  a drug store, get obtain leaves (or flowers, or buds) from X plant, light the plant on fire and breath in the smoke?

Sure. Eucalyptus in aboriginal societies. Frankincense in the Middle East and Asia. Many more but I won't bore you. I think this fear of a plant is more of a cultural thing rather than doctrinal. Nothing freaks out us mormons like hippies. We can't even have beards anymore!🙂

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An interesting point...

 

Quote

 

At a 2010 conference for Mormon priesthood leaders in Colorado Springs, the first question asked was about the church’s policy on medical marijuana.

The response: It is an issue between the church member, the member’s bishop and the Lord, to be made in consultation with the scriptures and the LDS health code called the Word of Wisdom.

“The church has no position,” one church leader said, “on medical marijuana.”

That last statement was made by Russell M. Nelson in a video leaked in 2016. Perhaps you’ve heard of him. Then he was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles; now he is president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/2018/04/12/gehrke-lds-churchs-stance-on-medical-marijuana-doesnt-make-sense-why-is-it-ok-for-a-nevada-mormon-but-not-a-utah-mormon/

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Big illegal pot growe caught ust down the road from us. Legalization? Hahaha.

Good luck, Utah.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/crime/article208738494.html

Edited by Bernard Gui
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There is some precedent of this scenario.  Utah cast the deciding vote for the 21st Amendment to repeal prohibition and the 18th Amendment.  This was against the objections of President Heber J. Grant.  Grant was a strong prohibitionist who actively campaigned to make Utah a dry state.  He was the Utah President of the Anti-Saloon League and on their national board and "Grant’s pro-Prohibition stand also challenged harmony" among church leaders. Joseph F. Smith resignedly said that he had “frequently tried to modify his zeal,” but Grant did “as he wishes.”  Grant did not succeed in making prohibition the law of the land but he very much made it the law of the church. 

It'll be interesting to see the on ballot initiative what happens.  Prescription drug abuse is a big issue in Utah.  It would be hard to find a family that hasn't had a son, a uncle, a cousin, a best friend that hasn't had to deal with the tragedy of addiction.  It'll be interesting to see if enough Mormons go against this statement for the ballot initiative to succeed. 

Phaedrus 

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13 hours ago, cipriano said:

Sure. Eucalyptus in aboriginal societies. Frankincense in the Middle East and Asia. Many more but I won't bore you. I think this fear of a plant is more of a cultural thing rather than doctrinal. Nothing freaks out us mormons like hippies. We can't even have beards anymore!🙂

OK . . . .

So I guess it doesn't happen in the United States, but Aboriginal societies do it. So it must be OK.

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I have not had a chance to read all of the comments yet so my apologies if someone has already brought this up...

Based on the statement that the Church made, it seems to me that in states where medical marijuana is legal a member could consult with a physician, obtain a medical marijuana card, used cannabis, and face no Church discipline.  

Does anyone else read it that way?  Assuming that it does read that way and the members in marijuana states take it that way, could the church face a cluster f over this issue.  

I am curious to know what you all think here.

I find the church's position to be extremely shortsighted and disappointing.

I don't understand why the church can't allow members to decide to medicate with marijuana when they are allowed to medicate with opioids.  It just makes no sense to me...

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6 hours ago, phaedrus ut said:

There is some precedent of this scenario.  Utah cast the deciding vote for the 21st Amendment to repeal prohibition and the 18th Amendment.  This was against the objections of President Heber J. Grant.  Grant was a strong prohibitionist who actively campaigned to make Utah a dry state.  He was the Utah President of the Anti-Saloon League and on their national board and "Grant’s pro-Prohibition stand also challenged harmony" among church leaders. Joseph F. Smith resignedly said that he had “frequently tried to modify his zeal,” but Grant did “as he wishes.”  Grant did not succeed in making prohibition the law of the land but he very much made it the law of the church. 

It'll be interesting to see the on ballot initiative what happens.  Prescription drug abuse is a big issue in Utah.  It would be hard to find a family that hasn't had a son, a uncle, a cousin, a best friend that hasn't had to deal with the tragedy of addiction.  It'll be interesting to see if enough Mormons go against this statement for the ballot initiative to succeed. 

Phaedrus 

Addiction could play either way...if they got addicted through being given pain pills for actual pain, I suspect they would be pro MJ as a less addicting, dangerous option.

If their family member, friend picked up the habit from stealing others' prescriptions or wanting to try it without an actual need, I suspect they will see it more as a gateway drug and vote against it...unless they are worried about their loved one going to jail and then they might vote for to lighten the potential long term consequences.

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5 hours ago, Danzo said:

OK . . . .

So I guess it doesn't happen in the United States, but Aboriginal societies do it. So it must be OK.

Is anyone here in this thread promoting smoking MJ as the delivery system even if there is recognition it makes for a quicker, maybe bigger hit?

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16 minutes ago, FearlessFixxer said:

I have not had a chance to read all of the comments yet so my apologies if someone has already brought this up...

Based on the statement that the Church made, it seems to me that in states where medical marijuana is legal a member could consult with a physician, obtain a medical marijuana card, used cannabis, and face no Church discipline.  

Does anyone else read it that way?  Assuming that it does read that way and the members in marijuana states take it that way, could the church face a [blowback] over this issue?

I don't read it that way. The Church's terse statement says at the end that marijuana should "undergo the scrutiny of medical scientists and official approval bodies." That hasn't happened yet, although as some have pointed out, this is in part due to the catch-22 that its classification prevents rigorous testing. So it is a little circular to rely on lack of testing when you are essentially opposing the testing.

I don't think they are saying that if you can somehow obtain a medical marijuana card, then you are A-OK for temple recommend reasons. The fact is that people can legally get one without visiting an M.D. (or even a P.A. or nurse practitioner), and thus not be acting illegally, without it being the "competent and sound medical advice" proponents always portray it as. Many smoke shops are medical marijuana card mills. And, like with prescribed opioids, I'm sure that there are M.D.s who hand them out promiscuously, too. 

As far as myself, I have told members trying to persuade me that they should be worthy while using medical marijuana that I disagree with them. Given the complete lack of guidance on this from Salt Lake, leader roulette reigns. I should say that, in my experience, those members --- every single one of them --- insists that this includes smoking it as part of their necessary pain and symptom management regimen. In other words, not "just oil or pill" medical marijuana. My experience is limited to four people. 

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1 minute ago, rongo said:

I don't read it that way. The Church's terse statement says at the end that marijuana should "undergo the scrutiny of medical scientists and official approval bodies." That hasn't happened yet, although as some have pointed out, this is in part due to the catch-22 that its classification prevents rigorous testing. So it is a little circular to rely on lack of testing when you are essentially opposing the testing.

I don't think they are saying that if you can somehow obtain a medical marijuana card, then you are A-OK for temple recommend reasons. The fact is that people can legally get one without visiting an M.D. (or even a P.A. or nurse practitioner), and thus not be acting illegally, without it being the "competent and sound medical advice" proponents always portray it as. Many smoke shops are medical marijuana card mills. And, like with prescribed opioids, I'm sure that there are M.D.s who hand them out promiscuously, too. 

As far as myself, I have told members trying to persuade me that they should be worthy while using medical marijuana that I disagree with them. Given the complete lack of guidance on this from Salt Lake, leader roulette reigns. I should say that, in my experience, those members --- every single one of them --- insists that this includes smoking it as part of their necessary pain and symptom management regimen. In other words, not "just oil or pill" medical marijuana. My experience is limited to four people. 

Ok.  your reading of it might be more accurate than mine.  Here is the personal experience I can share with you on the matter....Here in Las Vegas, I can tell you 100% that a very large number of temple recommend holders use marijuana since it has become legal.  I think that the more the church digs their heels in on this, the more they stand to have to deal with some sort of showdown in the near future.

I think they should just say that it is up to each individual person.

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17 minutes ago, FearlessFixxer said:

Ok.  your reading of it might be more accurate than mine.  Here is the personal experience I can share with you on the matter....Here in Las Vegas, I can tell you 100% that a very large number of temple recommend holders use marijuana since it has become legal.  I think that the more the church digs their heels in on this, the more they stand to have to deal with some sort of showdown in the near future.

I think they should just say that it is up to each individual person.

I have no doubt that some sparks may fly if/when the Church officially comes out against it. We were told in September by two members of the Seventy that the Church is working on a detailed policy, but that this is complicated given that at the time 26 (or 29, can't remember exactly) states have some form of medical marijuana legalization. they indicated that the laws are all over the map, and they also pointed out that they are going to address more than just marijuana (e.g., kava, mate, betel nut, etc.). It isn't just a local U.S. issue.

What percentage of temple recommend holders would you say constitutes "a very large number" who use marijuana in the Las Vegas area? I find that hard to believe, to be honest. 

I, myself, am very conservative by nature, and hope (personally) that they say that smoked or consumed marijuana (baked goods) for any reason is against the Word of Wisdom. I am agnostic as to oil or pill forms. I have heard the anecdotes contra, but to be honest, I don't believe them. I agree that opioids are over-prescribed and over-used (my wife wouldn't take them after surgery), and I think that it is embarrassing that active Mormons aren't "tougher" or more resilient than they are (anti-depressants, pain medication, etc.). I think that it is a valid criticism that we have so many mental and physical ailments among us when we ostensibly believe in the miraculous healing power of the priesthood. Not that it is on demand at our behest, but we tend to lean 100% towards "sound medical advice" at all times (as a people) and don't rely very much at all in faith and the priesthood. Gospel principles and gospel living should yield more resiliency and toughness than they do, but that is up to people to exercise their faith. I think this is one symptom of our times --- our softness as a people.

Thought exercise for people here:

What would happen if, hypothetically, marijuana were specifically prohibited in an update to the TR interview questions? Would it just be accepted by most active members, or would there be palpable anger and opposition to this on the part of active members?

Edited by rongo
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29 minutes ago, Calm said:

Is anyone here in this thread promoting smoking MJ as the delivery system even if there is recognition it makes for a quicker, maybe bigger hit?

I don't think anyone here is promoting smoking MJ. I am certainly not.  

I guess my point is that if you are trying to pass a law allowing for medicinal use of some plant, it would logically follow that the law would allow for people to take said plant in a medically acceptable way.

If the people just want to use it recreationaly, they should just say it. And not hide behind some medical excuse. 

If they really want to make it legal for medicinal purposes only, then they should have language that in can only be taken in a way that medicine is normally taken (in the US, not aboriginal societies).

If people just want to get high smoking  pot, they should just openly say it.

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15 minutes ago, FearlessFixxer said:

Ok.  your reading of it might be more accurate than mine.  Here is the personal experience I can share with you on the matter....Here in Las Vegas, I can tell you 100% that a very large number of temple recommend holders use marijuana since it has become legal.  I think that the more the church digs their heels in on this, the more they stand to have to deal with some sort of showdown in the near future.

I think they should just say that it is up to each individual person.

Here in Oregon, where it is legal, I don't know of any active member that smokes MJ, Perhaps we just hang out in different circles.

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On 4/10/2018 at 11:32 PM, strappinglad said:

Canada is well on its way to legalizing MJ. Provinces are busy working on regulations for cannabis use , particularly in the workplace . So far there appears to be a tendency toward zero tolerance . The problem is a lack of good reliable quick tests for impairment for use by law enforcement for roadside testing etc. Knowing politicians, they will thoroughly study all the possible solutions... and then pick the one that does the most damage to the most people for the longest time. The Utah laws and ballots have not disabused me of that opinion.

My Dr. is leery about it, he just recommends I drink Pepsi, eat cheese, and take a hot bath

these issues, it seems, the Church say diddly about it when things hit the fan outside the US, but heaven forbid, the sky is falling when it comes to the shores of the US. Right now I can get medical MJ but am I breaking the WOW for getting it? no one has not so I guess I am not and why would I tell my Bishop or any other person what meds I take? I don't ask them what they take

Edited by Duncan
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38 minutes ago, Danzo said:

I could work with that.

My biggest problem with MJ is the smell.

There is. no smell with edibles

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5 hours ago, Calm said:

Is anyone here in this thread promoting smoking MJ as the delivery system even if there is recognition it makes for a quicker, maybe bigger hit?

Not sure if you mean't this how I'm taking it, but want to tell of my research on medical cannibus for Alzheimer's research. One study said one puff of a joint a day would do more than the CBD oil I'm taking. But I just can't get over the stigma of smoking a joint, even if it's just one puff a day.

Also, I know someone that had horrible migraines and drove across state lines to buy the oil for her headaches. She had gone to her doctor who just so happens to treat a lot of the general authorities. When this woman told the doctor that it didn't help, he told her the best way to treat her migraines was to smoke it, because it goes directly to the head or something like that, I guess that's why they say it'd be best to take a puff a day for prevention or to clean the plaque on the brain. But I'd have to go out and buy it on the streets and I'm not about to do that, that's where a dispenser would be great. 

Anyway just wanted to share that sometimes smoking does help with specific needs, although not sure I can do it, too scary.

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Good to know, it is not something I have ever checked out as those with rls who had tried MJ always told me it either didn't help or made it worse, so wasn't intêrested personally.  And then my daughter has so many meds no way will we experiment without a doctor supervising.

But she definitely wants to try it as soon as it is legal.

Edited by Calm
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I know I sound like a broken record on this, for those that have read my comments about cannibus oil. But if anyone is interested and has a FB account, you could join the private group called Cannabis Oil Success Stories.

Wow! That was weird, I just went to the FB group to make sure I had the name right and the Admin just posted this to the group showing all of the successes in one spot. So if you don't have FB, here it is for anyone that's interested!

http://www.cannabisoilsuccessstories.com/portfolio.html

 

Edited by Tacenda
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On 4/12/2018 at 4:17 PM, cipriano said:

Sure. Eucalyptus in aboriginal societies. Frankincense in the Middle East and Asia. Many more but I won't bore you. I think this fear of a plant is more of a cultural thing rather than doctrinal. Nothing freaks out us mormons like hippies. We can't even have beards anymore!🙂

I have one as do all six sons and son-in-Law. Hippies were far more than long hair and beards. Don’t you remember?

Edited by Bernard Gui
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8 hours ago, FearlessFixxer said:

Ok.  your reading of it might be more accurate than mine.  Here is the personal experience I can share with you on the matter....Here in Las Vegas, I can tell you 100% that a very large number of temple recommend holders use marijuana since it has become legal.  I think that the more the church digs their heels in on this, the more they stand to have to deal with some sort of showdown in the near future.

I think they should just say that it is up to each individual person.

I’m just fine with showdowns. There are many to come. Beware the sieve, as Heber Kimball said,

Quote

 “Yes, we think we are secure here in the chambers of these everlasting hills . . . but I want to say to you, my brethren, the time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys to that extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint from the face of an enemy against the people of God. Then is the time to look out for the great sieve, for there will be a great sifting time, and many will fall. For I say unto you there is a test, a Test, a TEST coming.” (Heber C. Kimball, 1856. Quoted by J. Golden Kimball, Conference Report, October 1930, pp. 59-60.)

Beware the sieve.

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