Bernard Gui Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Tacenda said: I know I sound like a broken record on this, for those that have read my comments about cannibus oil. But if anyone is interested and has a FB account, you could join the private group called Cannabis Oil Success Stories. Wow! That was weird, I just went to the FB group to make sure I had the name right and the Admin just posted this to the group showing all of the successes in one spot. So if you don't have FB, here it is for anyone that's interested! http://www.cannabisoilsuccessstories.com/portfolio.html Why do you trust anecdotes? Back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, comfrey was all the rage. Eat a leaf or two every day. The leaves were pretty big. It cured whatever ailed you. Or so “they” said. Not so much anymore, since it was discovered to be toxic and causes liver damage. Take the humble western sage brush. An entire pharmacy in one plant. An old Native American and pioneer remedy of wondrous power. My mom swore by sage brush tea. I swore at it. We always had a jar in the fridge. I had to drink a glass a day when I was a teen. Boil it, burn it, smoke it, smell it, rub on the oil, makes a good yellow dye. It has powerful spiritual healing qualities. Great in sweat lodges. Drives out evil spirits and protects babies. Purifies bodies and souls, cures acne, works as an analgesic, antirhematic, antiseptic, diaphoretic, digestive aid, disinfectant, emollient, febrifuge, poultice and sedation. Treats high blood pressure, cancer, colds, sore throats, infection, bullet wounds, congestion, toothaches, menstruation, headaches, gas, flatulence, colic, worms, diarrhea, stops bleeding, heals gums and mouth infections, cramps, tuberculosis. Can be used for diaper lining. Cures dandruff, red eyes, athletes foot, fungal infections, a poison antidote. Prevents hair loss and premature face wrinkling in pregnant women. Soothes sore feet and legs. Repels insects. Great as a curative soak for dogs. And it works wonders on bad attitudes in teenagers. I know from first-hand experience. It’s neither addictive, intoxicating, nor hallucinogenic. Plus it’s natural, plentiful, sustainable, legal, cheap, green, and eco-friendly. Just go pick some and get started. Sage brush with all it’s wonderful powers is undeniably superior to pot and to anything produced by the big pharmaceutical companies. Well, some suggest it causes birth defects in test animals, but the studies are inconclusive. We should all switch from pot to sage brush, the next wonder “medicine.” All those users can’t be wrong. I know....I have used it and look what it’s done for me! http://www.herballegacy.com/Bergeson_Medicinal.html Edited April 14, 2018 by Bernard Gui Link to comment
Tacenda Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 6 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Why do you trust anecdotes? Back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, comfrey was all the rage. Eat a leaf or two every day. The leaves were pretty big. It cured whatever ailed you. Or so “they” said. Not so much anymore, since it was discovered to be toxic and causes liver damage. Take the humble western sage brush. An entire pharmacy in one plant. An old Native American and pioneer remedy of wondrous power. My mom swore by sage brush tea. I swore at it. We always had a jar in the fridge. I had to drink a glass a day when I was a teen. Boil it, burn it, smoke it, smell it, rub on the oil, makes a good yellow dye. It has powerful spiritual healing qualities. Great in sweat lodges. Drives out evil spirits and protects babies. Purifies bodies and souls, cures acne, works as an analgesic, antirhematic, antiseptic, diaphoretic, digestive aid, disinfectant, emollient, febrifuge, poultice and sedation. Treats high blood pressure, cancer, colds, sore throats, infection, bullet wounds, congestion, toothaches, menstruation, headaches, gas, flatulence, colic, worms, diarrhea, stops bleeding, heals gums and mouth infections, cramps, tuberculosis. Can be used for diaper lining. Cures dandruff, red eyes, athletes foot, fungal infections, a poison antidote. Prevents hair loss and premature face wrinkling in pregnant women. Soothes sore feet and legs. Repels insects. Great as a curative soak for dogs. And it works wonders on bad attitudes in teenagers. I know from first-hand experience. It’s neither addictive, intoxicating, nor hallucinogenic. Plus it’s natural, plentiful, sustainable, legal, cheap, green, and eco-friendly. Just go pick some and get started. Sage brush with all it’s wonderful powers is undeniably superior to pot and to anything produced by the big pharmaceutical companies. Well, some suggest it causes birth defects in test animals, but the studies are inconclusive. We should all switch from pot to sage brush, the next wonder “medicine.” All those users can’t be wrong. I know....I have used it and look what it’s done for me! http://www.herballegacy.com/Bergeson_Medicinal.html Well, these stories are just a small percent of the ones I read every day on the FB group, but you'd have to see for yourself. I'm just passing on any help for those that want it. Not everything can be solved with cannabis, but for many ailments, it can. Do you think they all lie in these testimonies? Maybe you do, because you think people want to just use it for fun, I'm sure there are many that do out there. But the usual posts I read, don't want the high and are very concerned about not getting high. Link to comment
Calm Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Placebo effects would possibly be quite common, it wouldn't have to be lies, just perception in some cases. It will be interesting to see what research demonstrates in the end? 1 Link to comment
california boy Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Why do you trust anecdotes? Back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, comfrey was all the rage. Eat a leaf or two every day. The leaves were pretty big. It cured whatever ailed you. Or so “they” said. Not so much anymore, since it was discovered to be toxic and causes liver damage. Take the humble western sage brush. An entire pharmacy in one plant. An old Native American and pioneer remedy of wondrous power. My mom swore by sage brush tea. I swore at it. We always had a jar in the fridge. I had to drink a glass a day when I was a teen. Boil it, burn it, smoke it, smell it, rub on the oil, makes a good yellow dye. It has powerful spiritual healing qualities. Great in sweat lodges. Drives out evil spirits and protects babies. Purifies bodies and souls, cures acne, works as an analgesic, antirhematic, antiseptic, diaphoretic, digestive aid, disinfectant, emollient, febrifuge, poultice and sedation. Treats high blood pressure, cancer, colds, sore throats, infection, bullet wounds, congestion, toothaches, menstruation, headaches, gas, flatulence, colic, worms, diarrhea, stops bleeding, heals gums and mouth infections, cramps, tuberculosis. Can be used for diaper lining. Cures dandruff, red eyes, athletes foot, fungal infections, a poison antidote. Prevents hair loss and premature face wrinkling in pregnant women. Soothes sore feet and legs. Repels insects. Great as a curative soak for dogs. And it works wonders on bad attitudes in teenagers. I know from first-hand experience. It’s neither addictive, intoxicating, nor hallucinogenic. Plus it’s natural, plentiful, sustainable, legal, cheap, green, and eco-friendly. Just go pick some and get started. Sage brush with all it’s wonderful powers is undeniably superior to pot and to anything produced by the big pharmaceutical companies. Well, some suggest it causes birth defects in test animals, but the studies are inconclusive. We should all switch from pot to sage brush, the next wonder “medicine.” All those users can’t be wrong. I know....I have used it and look what it’s done for me! http://www.herballegacy.com/Bergeson_Medicinal.html We all get that you are against using marijuana as a medication, which is fine. But do you believe it is right for you to deny others legal access to this drug when prescribed by their physician? That seems like an insane position to have 3 Link to comment
Teancum Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 On 4/10/2018 at 6:09 PM, smac97 said: Here: The U.M.A. statement is worth a read: https://www.utahmed.org/docs/MJ/MarijuanaStatement.pdf Some excerpts: Thanks, -Smac I am not a medical person and have not studied up much on this. But I have seen anecdotally some very positive results for some. My state allows medical marijuana. A very close friend of mine died last year from aggressive brain cancer. He beat the odds. Lasted 6 years from the first tumor. Four years from the first tumor to the second and those were a good four years. Then the second one cam and that was more debilitating. Then a third and that was the end. He is a staunch member of the church. His docs prescribed MM. It seemed to help a lot with the pain, the side effects of treatment and it calmed his anxiety levels. As he diminished physically so did his mental capacity. He was almost like someone with Alzheimer's in the last year of his life. The MM was very helpful for him. And it was not cheap. They really could not afford it. So I bought it for them. His wife knew but he never did. Another friend has a wife with horrendous rheumatoid arthritis. the MM helps her as well. With pain and with being able to sleep better at night. Personally I think it sad the Church wants to stand in the way of medical progress. The states that have only MM tightly control it. To get the MM for my friend you would have thought you were walking into Fort Knox. 3 Link to comment
smac97 Posted April 14, 2018 Author Share Posted April 14, 2018 21 minutes ago, Teancum said: I am not a medical person and have not studied up much on this. Same here. Which is part of why I am a bit befuddled at the hostility to the UMA statement. Those folks are medical professionals. If their medical judgment is flawed, I think countervailing (expert) assessments are warranted - and welcome. Instead, most of what I have read is ad hoc, ad hominem hostility. 21 minutes ago, Teancum said: But I have seen anecdotally some very positive results for some. The UMA statement accounts for this. 21 minutes ago, Teancum said: My state allows medical marijuana. A very close friend of mine died last year from aggressive brain cancer. He beat the odds. Lasted 6 years from the first tumor. Four years from the first tumor to the second and those were a good four years. Then the second one cam and that was more debilitating. Then a third and that was the end. He is a staunch member of the church. His docs prescribed MM. It seemed to help a lot with the pain, the side effects of treatment and it calmed his anxiety levels. As he diminished physically so did his mental capacity. He was almost like someone with Alzheimer's in the last year of his life. The MM was very helpful for him. And it was not cheap. They really could not afford it. So I bought it for them. His wife knew but he never did. Another friend has a wife with horrendous rheumatoid arthritis. the MM helps her as well. With pain and with being able to sleep better at night. Good to know. 21 minutes ago, Teancum said: Personally I think it sad the Church wants to stand in the way of medical progress. I don't think that's a reasonable assessment. 21 minutes ago, Teancum said: The states that have only MM tightly control it. I question that. Thanks, -Smac 1 Link to comment
RevTestament Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 24 minutes ago, Teancum said: I am not a medical person and have not studied up much on this. But I have seen anecdotally some very positive results for some. My state allows medical marijuana. A very close friend of mine died last year from aggressive brain cancer. He beat the odds. Lasted 6 years from the first tumor. Four years from the first tumor to the second and those were a good four years. Then the second one cam and that was more debilitating. Then a third and that was the end. He is a staunch member of the church. His docs prescribed MM. It seemed to help a lot with the pain, the side effects of treatment and it calmed his anxiety levels. As he diminished physically so did his mental capacity. He was almost like someone with Alzheimer's in the last year of his life. The MM was very helpful for him. And it was not cheap. They really could not afford it. So I bought it for them. His wife knew but he never did. Another friend has a wife with horrendous rheumatoid arthritis. the MM helps her as well. With pain and with being able to sleep better at night. Personally I think it sad the Church wants to stand in the way of medical progress. The states that have only MM tightly control it. To get the MM for my friend you would have thought you were walking into Fort Knox. My condolences for your friend. I am glad you were able to help him. Out of curiosity, was the MM an extract? Was it high CBD - low THC type? Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tacenda said: Well, these stories are just a small percent of the ones I read every day on the FB group, but you'd have to see for yourself. I'm just passing on any help for those that want it. Not everything can be solved with cannabis, but for many ailments, it can. Do you think they all lie in these testimonies? Maybe you do, because you think people want to just use it for fun, I'm sure there are many that do out there. But the usual posts I read, don't want the high and are very concerned about not getting high. No, I don’t think they are lies, but if something is going to promoted and used for legitimate medical purposes, we need more than Facebook/YouTube anecdotes. Do you think those promoting sage brush are lying or would you rather see some scientific proof of all it’s users’ claims? Edited April 14, 2018 by Bernard Gui Link to comment
Storm Rider Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 I think I understand the argument against legalizing it, but I tend to fall on the side of decriminalization and/or legalization. The degree of testing done by the FDA due to our over-litigious society is out of control. I have no problems have medicinal hemp products available in the marketplace. I say with the understanding that some doctors and patients will abuse it just as they are abusing opioid medications currently. I also know that for those that actually need and use these medications properly they work wonders. I have zero experience with marijuana; I do not suffer from anything that would be benefited by its use. However, for those that this medication offers hope then allow them to take it under a doctor's guidance. 3 Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, california boy said: We all get that you are against using marijuana as a medication, which is fine. But do you believe it is right for you to deny others legal access to this drug when prescribed by their physician? That seems like an insane position to have Insane? No. I have repeatedly stated I would have no reservations if pot were treated scientifically, medically, and legally like any other prescribed medicine. Anecdotes, emotional appeals, and bullying don’t cut it for me. I also do not support piggybacking medical and recreational use for political purposes. Edited April 14, 2018 by Bernard Gui 1 Link to comment
bluebell Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 46 minutes ago, Teancum said: I am not a medical person and have not studied up much on this. But I have seen anecdotally some very positive results for some. My state allows medical marijuana. A very close friend of mine died last year from aggressive brain cancer. He beat the odds. Lasted 6 years from the first tumor. Four years from the first tumor to the second and those were a good four years. Then the second one cam and that was more debilitating. Then a third and that was the end. He is a staunch member of the church. His docs prescribed MM. It seemed to help a lot with the pain, the side effects of treatment and it calmed his anxiety levels. As he diminished physically so did his mental capacity. He was almost like someone with Alzheimer's in the last year of his life. The MM was very helpful for him. And it was not cheap. They really could not afford it. So I bought it for them. His wife knew but he never did. Another friend has a wife with horrendous rheumatoid arthritis. the MM helps her as well. With pain and with being able to sleep better at night. Personally I think it sad the Church wants to stand in the way of medical progress. The states that have only MM tightly control it. To get the MM for my friend you would have thought you were walking into Fort Knox. I think some states have poisoned the well a bit. Montana allowed medical marijuana use with a medical marijuana card, and it was a huge joke. You could get those cards for any slight ailment. My brother in law had one while he was in college and there was absolutely nothing wrong with him. 2 Link to comment
california boy Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Insane? No. I have repeatedly stated I would have no reservations if pot were treated scientifically, medically, and legally like any other prescribed medicine. Anecdotes, emotional appeals, and bullying don’t cut it for me. So let me simply ask you this. Do you really not believe that results have shown that marijuana actually does relieve pain in some medical conditions? Edited April 14, 2018 by california boy Link to comment
Teancum Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 34 minutes ago, smac97 said: Same here. Which is part of why I am a bit befuddled at the hostility to the UMA statement. Those folks are medical professionals. If their medical judgment is flawed, I think countervailing (expert) assessments are warranted - and welcome. Instead, most of what I have read is ad hoc, ad hominem hostility. The UMA statement accounts for this. Good to know. I don't think that's a reasonable assessment. I question that. Thanks, -Smac I will rephrase my comment on tight controls. My state has very tight controls. Don't know about the others. Link to comment
Teancum Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 37 minutes ago, RevTestament said: My condolences for your friend. I am glad you were able to help him. Out of curiosity, was the MM an extract? Was it high CBD - low THC type? Hi CBD low THC. Link to comment
jbarm Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Anecdotal empiricism is anti science. Amazing how some of you use 'science' to criticize the LDS church but then embrace the magical qualities of marijuana based on hearsay. No wonder there are so many people who subscribe to the belief in snake oils such as essential oils, noni, Xango and other cure all substances. All of the above have Facebook pages and forums full of stories of amazing cures. Name an ailment and you will find a cure. All of the above also lack strong scientific evidence supporting most of their claims. I'm sure we will see a marijuana based MLM surface soon. Yeesh. 2 Link to comment
Popular Post MiserereNobis Posted April 14, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 14, 2018 My state has tight controls. There are only a certain number of ailments you can get it for and the most commonly misused one, chronic pain, requires two doctors plus medical scans (CT, MRI, etc). I really appreciate that. If it is medicine it should be treated as medicine, not as a cure-all. The federal government needs to reschedule marijuana so that rigorous scientific medical testing can occur. It's ridiculous that it is schedule 1 while cocaine is schedule 2. 5 Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 (edited) On 4/14/2018 at 11:17 AM, california boy said: So let me simply ask you this. Do you really not believe that results have shown that marijuana actually does relieve pain in some medical conditions? Why do you persist with these bullying questions? I have clearly stated my position about medical pot legalization. Anecdotes, emotional appeals, referenda, and brow-beating don’t work for me. If it is a legitimate medically/scientifically proven pain reliever with side effects, then treat it just like all other pain relievers with standardization, proper prescription by an MD, distribution by licensed pharmacies, etc. Not dispensed by Al or Candace at Sweet Bud with the high sign spinner guy out on the street. How can that be taken seriously? Are you saying it’s simply another thing like ibuprofen, aspirin, or Tylenol? If so, those are regulated Edited April 16, 2018 by Bernard Gui 2 Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Teancum said: Hi CBD low THC. What are the official medically defined contents, proper dosages, length of usage, contra-indications, purity standards, side-effect warnings? Link to comment
Storm Rider Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 26 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: What are the official medically defined contents, proper dosages, length of usage, contra-indications, purity standards, side-effect warnings? I appreciate your position, but all of those things are known with opioids medications and yet we have an epidemic of death....which is something we don't have with pot use - medicinal or otherwise. Testing - sure, test away. However, let's not be ignorant of the decades and decades of use just like aspirin and other over-the-counter medications. 3 Link to comment
california boy Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Why do you persist with these bullying questions? I have clearly stated my position about medical pot legalization. Anecdotes, emotional appeals, referenda, and brow-beating don’t work for me. If it is a legitimate medically/scientifically proven pain reliever with side effects, then treat it just like all other pain relievers with standardization, proper prescription by an MD, distribution by licensed pharmacies, etc. Not dispensed by Al or Candice at Sweet Bud with the high sign spinner guy out on the street. How can that be taken seriously? Are you saying it’s simply another thing like ibuprofen, aspirin, or Tylenol? If so, those are regulated WHOA. You think asking you if you think marijuana relieves pain is a bully question?? i just want to understand why you think medical marijuana shouldn’t be legal. I will stop asking about what you think Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, california boy said: WHOA. You think asking you if you think marijuana relieves pain is a bully question?? i just want to understand why you think medical marijuana shouldn’t be legal. I will stop asking about what you think This....after I have repeatedly made my position clear...”Do you really not believe that results have shown that marijuana actually does relieve pain in some medical conditions?” Do you not believe all the testimonials for sage brush? Edited April 15, 2018 by Bernard Gui Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Storm Rider said: I appreciate your position, but all of those things are known with opioids medications and yet we have an epidemic of death....which is something we don't have with pot use - medicinal or otherwise. Testing - sure, test away. However, let's not be ignorant of the decades and decades of use just like aspirin and other over-the-counter medications. Of course, but let’s not call it real medicine when it has not been proven to be so. Even OTC medications can cause serious problems. Edited April 15, 2018 by Bernard Gui Link to comment
Storm Rider Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Of course, but let’s not call it real medicine when it has not been proven to be so. Even OTC medications can cause serious problems. Bernard, this is an issue of semantics. If someone takes hemp oil and their seizures cease; they then stop taking the oil their seizures recommence; so they choose to take hemp oil. Is it medicine? Is it effective? I remember hearing the old saying, "If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck"....we don't need to call it a dog until some doctors do tests to confirm it is a duck. Let's assume that it is strictly psychosomatic - so what. If the seizures stop and they feel better let them take the hemp oil. Edited April 15, 2018 by Storm Rider 3 Link to comment
Calm Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 It has not been tested for everything it is used for, purity and dosages are not standardized yet. Call it a supplement like tons of other stuff out there that may have been proven to work for one or two things...or not...but then get put up as the latest cure all, but are not controlled much by the FDA. Link to comment
california boy Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 32 minutes ago, Calm said: It has not been tested for everything it is used for, purity and dosages are not standardized yet. Call it a supplement like tons of other stuff out there that may have been proven to work for one or two things...or not...but then get put up as the latest cure all, but are not controlled much by the FDA. I am not sure you are right on this. Dosages are regulated. Edibles for example have to be clearly labeled as to what the dose you are getting. In California, it is a pretty highly regulated business. Link to comment
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