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Elders Quorum President  

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  1. 1. The newly called Elders Quorum President in my ward holds the following priesthood office:

    • High Priest
      27
    • Elder
      30
    • Unsure
      4


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3 hours ago, Calm said:

It is less likely a "bloodline" imo and more likely being exposed to good examples and likely being given the opportunity to practice what they saw when younger (from what I have seen, seeing good examples is not enough, having effective parents may even lead to not attempting to develop those skills one sees for oneself since many parents provide when needed...thus one may sometime see a strong leader whose children mostly leave the Church out of disinterest, waste educational opportunities, or are horrible at self sufficiency, lack prudence, etc).

 

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14 hours ago, Regor said:

My bloodline must be just short of serf status if we equate leadership to being ordained without a need for the ordination and only because of the bloodline. Now were back to ordinations to High Priest representing a superior status. This talk of superior leadership bloodline comparing them to early Woodruff and Smith blood lines instead of just an office to execute a calling.

I think you misunderstood what I wrote about that particular family.  None of them were ordained HP because of bloodline -- they were ordained such because they were called into callings that required it.  And my comment about bloodline was only to marvel that a single family could produce so many effective leaders.  I know what it looks like when men are exalting themselves because of their self-perceived importance, and the men of that family (the ones that I was acquainted with anyway) were all exemplary and unselfconsciously good men -- with no self-inflationary egos attached, either.  That is what made them stand out to me, I think. You and Duncan must live in a couple of the most dysfunctional or potentially dysfunctional stakes in the Church.

As for Woodruff and Smith, what is your problem?  

Having not served in any major callings recently (I was once president over a small branch, 35 years ago), I was mostly in administrative callings (i.e. a clerk) in my old stake, where I was able to observe the character of many church leaders.  And personal foibles and quirks aside, I found that virtually all of them led with the spirit, and were not proud of their positions, neither did they lord over others not occupying their lofty heights of authority.  And ordaining more elder men to the office of high priest simply due to their age and experience did not come across as a "promotion", in my observation.  It never seemed worth a question.  And if one or two men were not so raised -- and some were not because of their personal preference -- nobody thought the less of them for that.  And I was in a position to hear of it, if it had happened.  If that is different where you were, that's too bad, but it's done with now.  Let your heart be comforted.  

And the reason I say that is because you seem to be quite bothered by having not been "promoted".  If you weren't, why would be bring it up like this?  You actually have a distinction -- or did have it.  It's over now, and good riddance if it has caused a problem.

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6 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I think you misunderstood what I wrote about that particular family.  None of them were ordained HP because of bloodline -- they were ordained such because they were called into callings that required it.  And my comment about bloodline was only to marvel that a single family could produce so many effective leaders.  I know what it looks like when men are exalting themselves because of their self-perceived importance, and the men of that family (the ones that I was acquainted with anyway) were all exemplary and unselfconsciously good men -- with no self-inflationary egos attached, either.  That is what made them stand out to me, I think. You and Duncan must live in a couple of the most dysfunctional or potentially dysfunctional stakes in the Church.

As for Woodruff and Smith, what is your problem?  

Having not served in any major callings recently (I was once president over a small branch, 35 years ago), I was mostly in administrative callings (i.e. a clerk) in my old stake, where I was able to observe the character of many church leaders.  And personal foibles and quirks aside, I found that virtually all of them led with the spirit, and were not proud of their positions, neither did they lord over others not occupying their lofty heights of authority.  And ordaining more elder men to the office of high priest simply due to their age and experience did not come across as a "promotion", in my observation.  It never seemed worth a question.  And if one or two men were not so raised -- and some were not because of their personal preference -- nobody thought the less of them for that.  And I was in a position to hear of it, if it had happened.  If that is different where you were, that's too bad, but it's done with now.  Let your heart be comforted.  

And the reason I say that is because you seem to be quite bothered by having not been "promoted".  If you weren't, why would be bring it up like this?  You actually have a distinction -- or did have it.  It's over now, and good riddance if it has caused a problem. 

Its more about the perception of others in the church that being made a High Priest is a  "promotion". I don't even consider or comprehend it as a promotion, its an office to perform a function. My point is a 35 year old Elder in my Ward was made a High Priest without a calling requiring it at the time he received it or two years to date since. Dozens of Elders younger and older than him were not made High Priests. Why him? The suggested answer was that some families produce "so many effective leaders" that offspring has to be moved to High Priest even if no calling is waiting for them at the time or any foreseeable future time?  I think the perception that its a "promotion" to be called to High Priest is more prevalent among members than many of us are wiling to acknowledge. My point is that the act of making him a High Priest perpetuated the notion that its a "promotion" for being better than the average bear.

In the church boys "advance in rank" , are "promoted" through the Cub Scouts and Scouts. When boys turn 12 they receive the priesthood and then are "advanced" to Teacher at 14, Priest at 16, and Elder soon after turning 18. Each advancements is preceded by an interview to confirm righteousness/worthiness. Apparently that process programs some boys into believing the next advancement is to High Priest. Maybe that's a secondary reason why the Scouting program is going away.

 Members begin to question the worthiness of Elders not ordained High Priests by the age 50's for sure, or maybe some earlier member appointed deadline. Since becoming a High Priest has no advancement date, or a list of achievements the perception by some members is that God must have conducted the interview and  found that individual to be unworthy/unrighteous, because after all, look at all the younger bucks that have been "Advanced" instead of them. That Elder must be failing their swim test.

The attitude is not just among the men, I had a women in my ward say to me out of the blue; "your getting a little long in the tooth for an Elder aren't you? " I compare it to what my wife and I called the Napoleon Dynamite effect. My wife and I noticed when that movie came out almost all the jocks and families of jocks did not find that movie to be very funny, because they didn't get it. Others, mostly non jocks, and families with no jocks thought it was hilarious. I think its the same if your 50 or some other age perceived to be too old for an Elder, you get it.  Elders made High Priest at a younger age probably don't get the disparagement, or escaped it before turning a High Priest. They escaped the environment of shame that is put upon older Elders periodically. Not constantly, because after all we are Latter day Saints so you can go weeks and months until an event occurs that reminds you of what people think. Now I'm a convert and have a strong testimony so I just brush off the comments, and like I have said all along it doesn't matter to me. It does matter to me and make me wonder how many Elders have left the church because of that judgmental attitude. That really is an application of the commandment not to judge. We always hear the word "offended" as a reason people leave the church. I would love to see a cause and effect diagram of "left the church because offended, how many causes could be attributed to disrespected by members that perceive them as unworthy because of their calling or priesthood status. 

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5 minutes ago, Regor said:

Now I'm a convert and have a strong testimony so I just brush off the comments, and like I have said all along it doesn't matter to me. It does matter to me and make me wonder how many Elders have left the church because of that judgmental attitude. That really is an application of the commandment not to judge. We always hear the word "offended" as a reason people leave the church. I would love to see a cause and effect diagram of "left the church because offended, how many causes could be attributed to disrespected by members that perceive them as unworthy because of their calling or priesthood status. 

I'm also a convert and have been in this church for 50 years or so, but I've never heard anyone say they went inactive or left the church because they didn't get ordained to the office of High Priest when they thought they should, or because they thought others considered them unworthy or disrespected them because of their calling or priesthood status.

But I admit I've not taken a survey, or heard of one that listed that as a cause of inactivity.  

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12 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I'm also a convert and have been in this church for 50 years or so, but I've never heard anyone say they went inactive or left the church because they didn't get ordained to the office of High Priest when they thought they should, or because they thought others considered them unworthy or disrespected them because of their calling or priesthood status.

But I admit I've not taken a survey, or heard of one that listed that as a cause of inactivity.  

I have not heard of someone leaving because of not being made a High Priest either. But there was the story I told earlier  about the family that left the church because they thought the Ward was like a big High School. They thought it was a popularity contest and they related that to how all the popular members were running the entire Ward, STP, Same Ten People. I'm sure if they were in my current Ward and saw the guy become a High Priest without a calling for that office, he would have exploded over that one.

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Not our model. So far I know of two Wards in the stake having the new Elders Quorum President called. So far both new Elders Quorum Presidents are High Priests.

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How important is missionary work in this church? What of the inactives? 

I was inactive for a year in my old ward and now I'm not that active in my new ward. I even went to the bishop in my new ward and told him of my faith issues. And asked for a calling that would best fit me since my testimony issues. I mentioned something like Compassionate Service would be nice. Then on a Sunday after this new change awhile back our home teacher/ministering angel asked me right after the block what my husband and I would prefer as far as visits. I said I'd love a visit whenever it would work for them best, or on Sundays would work well too. Well just as in my last ward there have been no visits.  

What is it with inactives getting the cold shoulder? Or is it just the inactives that are aware of church history problems? I now think it's a bunch of huey since my eyes have been opened that really the church could care less about us, and probably wish to get our names off the records asap.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

How important is missionary work in this church? What of the inactives? 

I was inactive for a year in my old ward and now I'm not that active in my new ward. I even went to the bishop in my new ward and told him of my faith issues. And asked for a calling that would best fit me since my testimony issues. I mentioned something like Compassionate Service would be nice. Then on a Sunday after this new change awhile back our home teacher/ministering angel asked me right after the block what my husband and I would prefer as far as visits. I said I'd love a visit whenever it would work for them best, or on Sundays would work well too. Well just as in my last ward there have been no visits.  

What is it with inactives getting the cold shoulder? Or is it just the inactives that are aware of church history problems? I now think it's a bunch of huey since my eyes have been opened that really the church could care less about us, and probably wish to get our names off the records asap.

 

 

Sorry you feel offended but I am sure you understand that if one does not want to attend church, it might be reasonable to assume that they do not want a calling or would not do it if they were asked

It is kind of counter-intuitive in any club that if someone does not show up in meetings, one is not going to ask them to lead.   People assume that if you are active, you are... ACTIVE and if not then not.

This is a volunteer operation and the ordinary way of finding people to help out would be to folks who .... volunteer!

Perhaps you should ask your bishop to make sure to give you a calling even though you don't attend- have you tried that?

Do you feel it is likely he would give you a calling if you do not show up to do it?   I am quite confused but would like to help if you allow me to.

Bishops may be reticent to call people with known "faith issues" because they might think the person might teach false doctrine or cause others to have the same "faith issues" and I think that were I the bishop of a person like that, being told that though the person has faith issues, if they assured me they would not try to convert others to their "faith issues" then I would give them a calling.

You do not want to have folks who do not believe church doctrine teaching false doctrine.   I think that is the concern here

Also one typically does not choose their calling- they might already have too many people in "compassionate service" or would be concerned about negative attitudes while doing the service

Bishops are only human so I think it is best to understand the way they think and provide them assurances.  :)

 

Edited by mfbukowski
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22 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Sorry you feel offended but I am sure you understand that if one does not want to attend church, it might be reasonable to assume that they do not want a calling or would not do it if they were asked

It is kind of counter-intuitive in any club that if someone does not show up in meetings, one is not going to ask them to lead.   People assume that if you are active, you are... ACTIVE and if not then not.

This is a volunteer operation and the ordinary way of finding people to help out would be to folks who .... volunteer!

Perhaps you should ask your bishop to make sure to give you a calling even though you don't attend- have you tried that?

Do you feel it is likely he would give you a calling if you do not show up to do it?   I am quite confused but would like to help if you allow me to.

Bishops may be reticent to call people with known "faith issues" because they might think the person might teach false doctrine or cause others to have the same "faith issues" and I think that were I the bishop of a person like that, being told that though the person has faith issues, if they assured me they would not try to convert others to their "faith issues" then I would give them a calling.

You do not want to have folks who do not believe church doctrine teaching false doctrine.   I think that is the concern here

He gave me a calling, I am a Compassionate Service Leader. I'm just talking about those that are inactive. What about the members being a missionary program, I've yet to see any of it. 

I'm not saying I was any better as a TBM, but I saw my RS president in action as a secretary in the presidency. Anyone who was inactive was called once a month. 

That never once happened in the year I was inactive. And now with my new bishop aware of my issues, not anything from the new ward either. So I really don't think it's as big a deal to members any longer. But think this perhaps belongs in a different thread.

And if it's so important to befriend inactives or non LDS, do they automatically worry that I'll tell someone something about the church that may affect their testimony, are members that fragile? Is the gospel that weak? And btw, I've never said anything you're referring to, and never would. 

I guess when you rely on the ward for friends, and then have of crisis of testimony or faith, then it hurts and is pretty lonely when it's all you ever knew.

What good are these Priesthood offices, if they don't go after the one? Or what the heck is this all for?!?

Edited by Tacenda

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46 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

He gave me a calling, I am a Compassionate Service Leader. I'm just talking about those that are inactive. What about the members being a missionary program, I've yet to see any of it. 

I'm not saying I was any better as a TBM, but I saw my RS president in action as a secretary in the presidency. Anyone who was inactive was called once a month. 

That never once happened in the year I was inactive. And now with my new bishop aware of my issues, not anything from the new ward either. So I really don't think it's as big a deal to members any longer. But think this perhaps belongs in a different thread.

And if it's so important to befriend inactives or non LDS, do they automatically worry that I'll tell someone something about the church that may affect their testimony, are members that fragile? Is the gospel that weak? And btw, I've never said anything you're referring to, and never would. 

I guess when you rely on the ward for friends, and then have of crisis of testimony or faith, then it hurts and is pretty lonely when it's all you ever knew.

What good are these Priesthood offices, if they don't go after the one? Or what the heck is this all for?!?

Well maybe the Lord is showing you that as the LEADER you should take that on your shoulders an do just that!

Sounds to me it is up to you to go after the one!

Do unto others what they failed to do unto you!!

 

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said I'd love a visit whenever it would work for them best, or on Sundays would work well too. Well just as in my last ward there have been no visits.  

When it works best for them is almost always going to be never because most people have busy lives. By saying it that way, you have removed any sense of urgency which means the 'urgent' things will push visits into a back corner of their mind that may pop up as they are falling asleep. You need to be specific, not vague to increase your chances of a visit.

Btw, it isn't just inactives that get coupled with those who don't visit.  We have had about 50/50.  Thelast 30 years it seems like either they are pretty regular or not at all.  The occasional visiting of my youth and early adulthood hasn't happened.

Edited by Calm

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44 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Well maybe the Lord is showing you that as the LEADER you should take that on your shoulders an do just that!

Sounds to me it is up to you to go after the one!

Do unto others what they failed to do unto you!!

 

I'm not the leader. Compassionate Service something or other I guess..

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8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'm not the leader. Compassionate Service something or other I guess..

Sounds like you are called to it to me!!  Calling inactives is definitely compassionate and it's definitely service!!

If you see a job that needs to be done, take the initiative and do it, and that will show your willingness to be part of the group AND you will be giving genuine service!

D&C 3

Quote

 

1 Now behold, a marvelous work is about to come forth among the children of men.

2 Therefore, O ye that embark in the service of God, see that ye serve him with all your heart, might, mind and strength, that ye may stand blameless before God at the last day.

Therefore, if ye have desires to serve God ye are called to the work;

4 For behold the field is white already to harvest; and lo, he that thrusteth in his sickle with his might, the same layeth up in store that he perisheth not, but bringeth salvation to his soul;

 

Show up those silly priesthood holders and show them how to do it!!  ;)

You know what it is like to be inactive and ignored- don't let it happen to anyone else!!

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16 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I'm not the leader. Compassionate Service something or other I guess..

Your comments are inspirational. My son and I are companions and we need to get out and see a guy that's inactive. Good reminder. I think laziness is the worst enemy in the church, is know it is for me. I remember to check on my ministering families that I see at church. I just need to get off my but and call the one that I have never seen. Thanks.

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3 hours ago, Regor said:

Your comments are inspirational. My son and I are companions and we need to get out and see a guy that's inactive. Good reminder. I think laziness is the worst enemy in the church, is know it is for me. I remember to check on my ministering families that I see at church. I just need to get off my but and call the one that I have never seen. Thanks.

Thanks Regor! Don't be like I was as a TBM and be afraid of the inactives, not that you are. But I wonder to this day if I'd have become inactive if someone would have just asked me why I missed several weeks of church and what they could do to help my situation. Just a phone call asking me how I was would have been a huge help. Any contact whatsoever would have been a relief. Now I'm not everyone as you well know, and the inactive on your route may feel the complete opposite, but just in case, it's good to not let them slip away. So glad you're going to do this, will you keep me up to date on this, I'd love to hear about it. 

Also, I need to add, I worry about the change from HT'g and VT'g to Ministering Angels because some people just won't do anything without some guidance and accountability. Usually when I've moved to a new ward, the RS sisters will ask if I would like VT's. And this time I was ready to say sure! But now with the new program, I haven't been approached at all. Just from the men, so maybe the sisters aren't as great as we've been giving them credit for in the past. I've been a member all my life and I'm not young, and I've heard all the hoopla about the women doing better than the men, not always the case I guess. 

I just may be a unique case with wanting some visits. I know alot of people don't have the time for it and are glad not to be visited. But I crave some social interaction now. That's why I come on this board 24/7. ;)

 

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5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Thanks Regor! Don't be like I was as a TBM and be afraid of the inactives, not that you are. But I wonder to this day if I'd have become inactive if someone would have just asked me why I missed several weeks of church and what they could do to help my situation. Just a phone call asking me how I was would have been a huge help. Any contact whatsoever would have been a relief. Now I'm not everyone as you well know, and the inactive on your route may feel the complete opposite, but just in case, it's good to not let them slip away. So glad you're going to do this, will you keep me up to date on this, I'd love to hear about it. 

Also, I need to add, I worry about the change from HT'g and VT'g to Ministering Angels because some people just won't do anything without some guidance and accountability. Usually when I've moved to a new ward, the RS sisters will ask if I would like VT's. And this time I was ready to say sure! But now with the new program, I haven't been approached at all. Just from the men, so maybe the sisters aren't as great as we've been giving them credit for in the past. I've been a member all my life and I'm not young, and I've heard all the hoopla about the women doing better than the men, not always the case I guess. 

I just may be a unique case with wanting some visits. I know alot of people don't have the time for it and are glad not to be visited. But I crave some social interaction now. That's why I come on this board 24/7. ;)

 

Time to be able to five Tacenda some reps!!!!

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2 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Time to be able to five Tacenda some reps!!!!

Thanks Jeanne! 🤗 But I'm afraid I've highjacked the thread with my personal problems again! Hopefully it's within the realm of the topic enough though. 

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53 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Thanks Jeanne! 🤗 But I'm afraid I've highjacked the thread with my personal problems again! Hopefully it's within the realm of the topic enough though. 

Gotcha...we will leave it alone.☺️

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2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

 

I just may be a unique case with wanting some visits. I know alot of people don't have the time for it and are glad not to be visited. But I crave some social interaction now. That's why I come on this board 24/7. ;)

 

Just remember you could make the first step yourself and go and visit some folks instead of waiting for them to come to you!  That's what Regor is actually doing!  :)

 

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When I was on my mission there was a discussion one day about the Texas and Utah saints. The one Elder noticed when he was in Utah that many of the male members went inactive when they were released from a calling. When he was in Texas he didn't notice this as much. Is it possible that this was due to the large number of members in the Utah wards, so they could be called to an unsatisfying calling? Now that we no long have the redundancy between the Elders Quorum and the High Priest, no need for two presidencies, two sets of teachers, etc. Will this cause some men to go inactive. I know they can split the Elders Quorums to allow more leadership, but in the cases where they don't, that ward just went from many callings to few.  

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So, it’s possible I could be elders quorum president a second time. Unlikely, but possible. 

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2 hours ago, Regor said:

When I was on my mission there was a discussion one day about the Texas and Utah saints. The one Elder noticed when he was in Utah that many of the male members went inactive when they were released from a calling. When he was in Texas he didn't notice this as much. Is it possible that this was due to the large number of members in the Utah wards, so they could be called to an unsatisfying calling? Now that we no long have the redundancy between the Elders Quorum and the High Priest, no need for two presidencies, two sets of teachers, etc. Will this cause some men to go inactive. I know they can split the Elders Quorums to allow more leadership, but in the cases where they don't, that ward just went from many callings to few.  

It went down exactly 3 callings while encouraging members to be more rigorous in their Ministry efforts and in their follow-up interviews, which had not really been happening under the home teaching program.

In my opinion the workload increase was more than the three callings worth of work "lost". And now there are fewer organizations to take on duties like Ward clean up, organizing word activities, etc.

Elders now have to administer family history callings and take care of widows which are jobs to wish they were never assigned before, organize Temple trips etcetera.

So actually there's an increased workload being handled by fewer people.

I wouldn't worry about having less work to do.

Edited by mfbukowski
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10 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I wouldn't worry about having less work to do.

In addition, we've been told that those serving in the office of high priest are not to have regular ministering assignments, so all that goes to the elders quorum.

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2 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

In addition, we've been told that those serving in the office of high priest are not to have regular ministering assignments, so all that goes to the elders quorum.

Meaning bishopric and higher?

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

Meaning bishopric and higher?

Meaning bishop, his counsellors, high councillors, and stake presidency. The idea is that they have significant ministering built into their callings. In the case of our high council, we've assigned a brother to each elders quorum and another one to each bishopric in the stake. They are supposed to be attending every meeting both to help train but also to serve wherever/however needed. We call it 'ministering to the ministers'.

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