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The Nehor

Reorganization of the Melchizedek Priesthood

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Putting aside the question of this being counter to the D&C and whether or not it as revelation...

This seems like a logical decision... For several decades now we've seen a trend:  it takes more members of record to form a ward and a stake.  One presumption here would be that this is due to increasing levels of inactivity.  This decision potentially frees several MP holders to serve in other areas within the ward or stake.

If current trends continue, I predict more of this type of collapsing of organizations and functions.

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1 hour ago, webbles said:

Also, I found it interesting that Elder Rasband quoted a revelation from John Taylor that isn't published in the D&C.

Does that make it "official doctrine of the Church"?

Obviously not every writing quoted in GC is doctrine.  But surely quoting an uncanonized revelation to a prophet as justification for an act presupposes the authenticity of that revelation.   And if authentic and valid and used in part to direct the Church, shouldn't it be canonized?  Made official?

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36 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Does that make it "official doctrine of the Church"?

Obviously not every writing quoted in GC is doctrine.  But surely quoting an uncanonized revelation to a prophet as justification for an act presupposes the authenticity of that revelation.   And if authentic and valid and used in part to direct the Church, shouldn't it be canonized?  Made official?

No and no.

The Apostles have revelations they have not published. They are not for the church at large to peruse.

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1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Maybe I overreacted to the combining of quorums.  It's not like they got rid of a priesthood office  (yet).

It's the continual chipping away at things restored through Joseph that gets to me.  This one is extremely minor and mostly administrative.  Most have not been.  How much more can we change until we are no longer the restored Church but some new invention?  One tiny change at a time. 

Worried polygamy isn't coming back any time soon?

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I'm not sure if I can continue being a member of this board now. My husband came home and said that this was the first time in a long time that he had known something about changes in the church before I did because of this board. Y'all have failed me.  I may have to leave now. 

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16 hours ago, Duncan said:

All I heard is I got released as EQ Pres. so, whatever happens now is who cares!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Before you get too excited the Lord  could recall you...

Edited by Avatar4321
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10 hours ago, bluebell said:

My husband is one of the counselors and they were happy to learn they would get to stay. 

I’m assuming that the SP would have just released them and called them again, so he’s just cutting out the middle step. 

And the prophet still said release. Releasing and recalling allow him to bless the men again

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8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

No and no.

The Apostles have revelations they have not published. They are not for the church at large to peruse.

What makes you think that's a thing?

The canonization thing makes sense - that way members can keep track of what's considered to be revelation and what's not. As of right now, it's become a bit of a mess. Do the uncanonized revelations even get written down somewhere? Will anyone in the Q12 or FP remember these revelations in 20 years?

I don't personally care - if something works well that's good enough revelation for me. But for those who believe that God literally tells us what to do...

Edited by Gray
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13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

For those not watching High Priests and Elders will not longer be meeting separately. High Priests will basically operate as Elders even though they retain their office. Elder's Quorum Presidencies will consist of both High Priests and Elders and neither inherently presides within the quorum.

Those operating in High Priest callings (Stake Presidencies, Bishoprics, High Council, and an active Patriarch) will make up the Stake High Priest Quorum.

This is a big relief for me. We were short on High Priests in our ward and were having a hard time keeping the High Priest Group working.

This will help a lot wards weaker in Priesthood numbers and free up four more Melchizedek Priesthood holders for other callings.

 

Still not Established:

When possible the High Priest Group was specifically responsible for the Home Teaching of Single Sisters. I am not sure if that will still be the responsibility of High Priests in the Quorum or just assigned generally now.

 

Also:

Several apostles are assigned to speak on the topic which may have been what was said about assigned talks this conference.

So the change seems to amount to when the aaronic priesthood gets released to the quorums each week the grown up men all stay together and the class at that point includes twice as many men as it used to.  Large classes in church usually result in the worst lessons, in my experience.  Sounds like they want less conversation amongst the members...less people sharing and participating.  

My guess is there have been too many complaints that wards struggle to keep either their high priest group working as you say or their elders quorum.  “Let’s stuf them together.  Then we won’t hear no complaints”.  

Revelation:  a beautiful thing

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9 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Maybe I overreacted to the combining of quorums.  It's not like they got rid of a priesthood office  (yet).

It's the continual chipping away at things restored through Joseph that gets to me.  This one is extremely minor and mostly administrative.  Most have not been.  How much more can we change until we are no longer the restored Church but some new invention?  One tiny change at a time. 

Be careful JLHPROF:

30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.

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43 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

And the prophet still said release. Releasing and recalling allow him to bless the men again

Yes, I’m sure you know better. 😜

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9 hours ago, rockpond said:

Putting aside the question of this being counter to the D&C and whether or not it as revelation...

This seems like a logical decision... For several decades now we've seen a trend:  it takes more members of record to form a ward and a stake.  One presumption here would be that this is due to increasing levels of inactivity.  This decision potentially frees several MP holders to serve in other areas within the ward or stake.

If current trends continue, I predict more of this type of collapsing of organizations and functions.

I agree with you, though my ward is not having that issue currently, I have seen it in other wards I have been a part of. Perhaps its time to purge the records of the Church of the inactive. Or create a new membership type that doesn't count when considering new wards and boundaries  - baptized but inactive (or something like that). If you haven't been seen in a year at Church and Home Teachers cannot get in to visit and attempts by the Bishopric to connect are not fruitful, you no longer are counted as a full member.

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13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Plus I hear they know more about Kolob's orbits and can enlighten the rest of us. ;) 

The worst part of all this is that those energetic Elders will make too much noise during the Priesthood meeting and we won't be able to sleep in the back row anymore.

Cheesh.

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13 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Up next...ward High Priests will go the way of ward seventies in the 1980s.  All melchizedek priesthood holders at the ward level will be elders.

Agreed- I don't see how HP will work as a "quorum" at all even with the annual meetings done away with.  It's ok with me, I am just not sure how a "quorum" that is more of an honorific title will function as a "quorum".  I was one of the "Presidents of 70's" in the stake which disappeared and that was a good thing too.

There used to be 3 different priesthood quorums in a stake and now we are down to one-ish.  OK by me- I think it's a great move even if the forgot to ask my advice.  ;)

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11 hours ago, bluebell said:

My husband is one of the counselors and they were happy to learn they would get to stay. 

I’m assuming that the SP would have just released them and called them again, so he’s just cutting out the middle step. 

I think the Brethren are anticipating that the middle step is a necessary one.

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13 hours ago, JAHS said:

I was one of the last 70's ordained in the church at the stake level. Shortly after that we got the news that all stake 70's quorums were to be discontinued.
We were sort of given a choice as to whether we wanted to join the High Priests or go into the elder's quorum. I was still very young so I went back to the elders.

 

Were you eventually made a High Priest later?

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6 minutes ago, jpv said:
13 hours ago, JAHS said:

I was one of the last 70's ordained in the church at the stake level. Shortly after that we got the news that all stake 70's quorums were to be discontinued.
We were sort of given a choice as to whether we wanted to join the High Priests or go into the elder's quorum. I was still very young so I went back to the elders.

 

Were you eventually made a High Priest later?

Yes I was, years later when I was put in as a counselor in the High Priest Group leadership.

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12 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I think the Brethren are anticipating that the middle step is a necessary one.

I'll pass that along to my stake president.   :P

Knowing what an awesome and amazing SP he is, i'm guess his thinking is rather than have 10 wards that with no elder's quorum presidencies or HP group leaders for the next couple of weeks+, he's waiting to make any changes until new callings can be made at the same time.

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12 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It is not a prerequisite but patriarchs previously attended the High Priest Group and were considered part of the High Priest Quorum.

Fun Fact: Patriarchs cannot be called to many High Priest positions like Bishop, member of the High Council, or Stake President without special approval from the Apostles even if they are not acting as a Patriarch.

Did you know that sealers cannot act as "regular" ordinance workers in the temple?  The can and do help out with a veil occasionally etc but not on a regular basis- and both for the same reason- both patriarch and sealers are called for life.

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27 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

The worst part of all this is that those energetic Elders will make too much noise during the Priesthood meeting and we won't be able to sleep in the back row anymore.

Cheesh.

Don't worry, we're pretty quiet these days (surfing the web on our phones) :P

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9 hours ago, rockpond said:

This seems like a logical decision... For several decades now we've seen a trend:  it takes more members of record to form a ward and a stake.  One presumption here would be that this is due to increasing levels of inactivity.  This decision potentially frees several MP holders to serve in other areas within the ward or stake.

If current trends continue, I predict more of this type of collapsing of organizations and functions.

I agree and I believe this is a smart organizational move.  We have seen dwindling numbers for years now and many (especially the older members.... meaning many High Priests) no longer stay for all 3 hours.  Combining the two quorums will bring the numbers up again for a more diverse group to meet together each week (at least visually and also functionally).

What will be interesting to watch is if this will eventually do away with the need to ordain anyone a High Priest.  Will they go the way of the Seventies?  Will Elders be allowed to serve in Bishoprics and so on?  I guess time will tell.

Edited by ALarson

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1 minute ago, Gray said:

Don't worry, we're pretty quiet these days (surfing the web on our phones) :P

Oh yeah, you mean "looking up a scripture", right?

I betcha half the posts here on Sundays are coming during meetings....  ;)

It cracks me up to see the "news flashes" here reporting on what guys are saying at conference as they are saying it.  Cheesh at at least wait til the meeting is over.  ;)

We LDS  love to be the first breaking the new gossip don't we?   I am pretty amazed that this change did not get leaked- at least as for as much as I know.

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4 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I agree and I believe this is a smart organizational move.  We have seen dwindling numbers for years now and many (especially the older members.... meaning many High Priests) no longer stay for all 3 hours.  Combining the two quorums will bring the numbers up again for a more diverse group to meet together each week (at least visually and also functionally).

What will be interesting to watch is if this will eventually do away with the need to ordain anyone a High Priest.  Will they go the way of the Seventies?  Will Elders be allowed to serve in Bishoprics and so on?  I guess time will tell.

I think there are scriptural reasons to retain the office- and I think those were cited in the meeting.  I can imagine them making High Priests more like Area Authorities or something- as they did with the seventies quorums - but scripturally I think it would not work to do away with it entirely.

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9 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Maybe I overreacted to the combining of quorums.  It's not like they got rid of a priesthood office  (yet).

It's the continual chipping away at things restored through Joseph that gets to me.  This one is extremely minor and mostly administrative.  Most have not been.  How much more can we change until we are no longer the restored Church but some new invention?  One tiny change at a time. 

This supposes that the church as it was in JS time was perfect and that any movement away from that church is apostasy in some form.  Is there support for that belief?

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11 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Oh yeah, you mean "looking up a scripture", right?

I betcha half the posts here on Sundays are coming during meetings....  ;)

It cracks me up to see the "news flashes" here reporting on what guys are saying at conference as they are saying it.  Cheesh at at least wait til the meeting is over.  ;)

We LDS  love to be the first breaking the new gossip don't we?   I am pretty amazed that this change did not get leaked- at least as for as much as I know.

My original plan was to take notes and post them as I did like I did last fall for Jeanne and others who were not able to watch at the time. After my first post or two I decided against it. So you have me on posting during the meeting, but not on wanting to be "first".

To tell you the truth, I am ok with posting during meetings depending on circumstances. My husband oddly ends up traveling for work during stake conference sometimes. Since they don't record the meeting and he is doing his best to keep the Sabbath holy I will take notes by text and send them to him. He especially appreciates it when he is sitting in an airport for 6 hours.

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