The Doctrine & Covenants, "Our Book".

[rodheadlee]

On 3/23/2018 at 4:51 PM, theplains said:

D&C 28: 8-9, 14
  8 - And now, behold, I say unto you that you shall go unto the Lamanites and preach my gospel 
  unto them; and inasmuch as they receive thy teachings thou shalt cause my church to be 
  established among them; and thou shalt have revelations, but write them not by way of 
  commandment.
  
  9 - And now, behold, I say unto you that it is not revealed, and no man knoweth where the city 
  Zion shall be built, but it shall be given hereafter. Behold, I say unto you that it shall 
  be on the borders by the Lamanites.
  
  14 - And thou shalt assist to settle all these things, according to the covenants of the 
  church, before thou shalt take thy journey among the Lamanites.
    
D&C 30: 6
  6 - And be you afflicted in all his afflictions, ever lifting up your heart unto me in prayer 
  and faith, for his and your deliverance; for I have given unto him power to build up my church 
  among the Lamanites
  
D&C 32: 2
  2 - And that which I have appointed unto him is that he shall ago with my servants, Oliver 
  Cowdery and Peter Whitmer, Jun., into the wilderness among the Lamanites.

D&C 54: 8
  8  - And thus you shall take your journey into the regions westward, unto the land of 
  Missouri, unto the borders of the Lamanites.

Who are the Lamanites?

Thanks,
Jim

Everyone who is not a Nephite.

 

Can I get a little help on the reference for that?

Edited March 30, 2018 by rodheadlee

[Calm]

11 hours ago, MormonMason said:

 

Or, not.  I've heard that some people are afraid to read that book.  Don't see why, but whatever.

Education is a terrifying thing to face.  You might become accountable.

[california boy]

14 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

https://newheights.org/talks/

My Pastor just did a talk on this subject 3/25/2018 

  Don’t you think it is a bit arrogant to come on this board and tell Mormons what they believe. Inturpeting their beliefs is there job and not yours. You may disagree with their beliefs, but that is quite different than telling them what they believe.

[MormonMason]

16 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

Are you saying James Talmage was wrong ? Even though a Mormon Apostle .

In this case, you bet.  Here is the thing.  Mormons do not believe in personal infallibility.  That is more or less a twist on a Catholic thing.  Funny thing is that this sword cuts both ways.  James Talmage made no claims that his book was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit or that it was a revelation from God.  You seem to be under the illusion that an apostle is infallible in all that he might write.  No Mormon ever claimed that.  No Mormon apostle ever claimed that.  No one in the Bible ever claimed that.  My original commentary is packed away at the moment but luckily it's on Google Books, too.  Here is a quote from that commentary

Quote

We must not regard the Bible as an absolutely perfect book in which God is Himself the author using human hands and brains only as a man might use a typewriter.  God used men, not machines—men with like weakness and prejudice and passion as ourselves, though purified and ennobled by the influence of His Holy Spirit; ...each with his own education or want of education—each with his own way of looking at things—each influenced differently from another by the different experiences and discipline of his life. Their inspiration did not involve a suspension of their natural faculties… it did not make them into machines—it left them men. Therefore we find their knowledge sometimes no higher than that of their contemporaries…. It surprises us in the Bible because of our false preconceptions;… because of our false theory of Verbal Inspiration we are puzzled when the divine is mingled with the human. We must learn that the divine is mingled with the human.

(Reverend J. R. Dummelow, ed., A Commentary on the Holy Bible.  By Various Writers.  Complete in One Volume. [New York:  Macmillan Company, 1920], cxxxiv-cxxxv)

See the quote in context here:  https://books.google.com/books?id=wJgAAAAAMAAJ&dq=Commentary on The Holy Bible. By Various Writers Dummelow&pg=PR135#v=twopage&q&f=false

So, again, yes.  Talmage was wrong because he relied on the old Bible commentaries that told him that.  The commentaries are wrong, too.  And again the earliest Christians understood that same Psalm the same way the Mormons do.  If you actually spend some time reading the extant writings of the early Christians, you will see that.

Edited March 30, 2018 by MormonMason

[MormonMason]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

Education is a terrifying thing to face.  You might become accountable.

Indeed!  I now can see why some antis are going to have a conniption fit over the book, though.  Had a copy second-day aired.  Don't want to ruin it for anybody else but there are really going to be some upset anti-Mormons if they ever get it and start reading it.  I really do think they are going to start warning people that they'd best avoid the book.  No punches are pulled in that book.  I'll just say that much.  This is going to be a fun read.

Edited March 30, 2018 by MormonMason

[Josh Khinder]

1 hour ago, MormonMason said:

In this case, you bet.  Here is the thing.  Mormons do not believe in personal infallibility.  That is more or less a twist on a Catholic thing.  Funny thing is that this sword cuts both ways.  James Talmage made no claims that his book was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit or that it was a revelation from God.  You seem to be under the illusion that an apostle is infallible in all that he might write.  No Mormon ever claimed that.  No Mormon apostle ever claimed that.  No one in the Bible ever claimed that.  My original commentary is packed away at the moment but luckily it's on Google Books, too.  Here is a quote from that commentary

See the quote in context here:  https://books.google.com/books?id=wJgAAAAAMAAJ&dq=Commentary on The Holy Bible. By Various Writers Dummelow&pg=PR135#v=twopage&q&f=false

So, again, yes.  Talmage was wrong because he relied on the old Bible commentaries that told him that.  The commentaries are wrong, too.  And again the earliest Christians understood that same Psalm the same way the Mormons do.  If you actually spend some time reading the extant writings of the early Christians, you will see that.

I thought Apostles were a direct line to God through the Holy Spirit, yet it seems from you, there aren't any more anointed than any man on the street 

[MormonMason]

18 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

I thought Apostles were a direct line to God through the Holy Spirit, yet it seems from you, there aren't any more anointed than any man on the street 

Even Joseph Smith himself stated that "a prophet was a prophet only when he was acting as such" (DHC 5:265).  In other words at any other time prophets are men with their own ideas just like any other.  Same goes for apostles.  And, maybe you should read the writings of a few of them.  You'll see them all say the same or similar things about themselves.  Again, see the Dummelow Commentary I just linked in the post you quoted.  What is written there is equally applicable to ancient apostles and to modern ones.  And the modern ones would agree.  We don't hold that apostles and prophets are direct lines for us to God 24/7/52 and never did.  They are anointed, and when they are functioning in their callings they are inspired by the Holy Spirit, and so on.  But when they are writing books for general consumption, they may or may not have that inspiration descend upon them 100% of the time, in which case they are left on their own and have to figure things out the same way we all do.  You are wasting time creating dichotomies where none exist.

Edited March 30, 2018 by MormonMason

[Josh Khinder]

3 hours ago, MormonMason said:

Even Joseph Smith himself stated that "a prophet was a prophet only when he was acting as such" (DHC 5:265).  In other words at any other time prophets are men with their own ideas just like any other.  Same goes for apostles.  And, maybe you should read the writings of a few of them.  You'll see them all say the same or similar things about themselves.  Again, see the Dummelow Commentary I just linked in the post you quoted.  What is written there is equally applicable to ancient apostles and to modern ones.  And the modern ones would agree.  We don't hold that apostles and prophets are direct lines for us to God 24/7/52 and never did.  They are anointed, and when they are functioning in their callings they are inspired by the Holy Spirit, and so on.  But when they are writing books for general consumption, they may or may not have that inspiration descend upon them 100% of the time, in which case they are left on their own and have to figure things out the same way we all do.  You are wasting time creating dichotomies where none exist.

So to tell if there inspired if you agree with them, there inspired. If you disagree with them that's there personal opinion 

[MormonMason]

42 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

So to tell if there inspired if you agree with them, there inspired. If you disagree with them that's there personal opinion 

Nope.  As we do for the Book of Mormon we do to know the inspiration of the things that are said and taught by apostles.  Apostles are men of like passions as we.  That is what James wrote, anyway.  They have opinions the same as the rest of us.  But Talmage's book isn't an inspired or canonized work.  So stop referring to it and using it as though it were.

Oh, and as an afterthought, I thought I would present what Talmage said in his preface about his own work:

Quote

It presents, however, the writer's personal belief and profoundest conviction as to the truth of what he has written.

 

(James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ: A Study of the Messiah and His Mission According to Holy Scriptures Both Ancient and Modern )

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by MormonMason

[rodheadlee]

21 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Everyone who is not a Nephite.

 

Can I get a little help on the reference for that?

Here is my reference for who is a Lamanite.

Jacob 1:

13 Now the people which were not Lamanites were Nephites; nevertheless, they were called Nephites, Jacobites, Josephites, Zoramites, Lamanites, Lemuelites, and Ishmaelites.

  14 But I, Jacob, shall not hereafter distinguish them by these names, but I shall call them Lamanites that seek to destroy the people of Nephi, and those who are friendly to Nephi I shall call Nephites, or the people of Nephi, according to the reigns of the kings.