MormonLeaks: Former Mormon Mission President Admitting to Inappropriate Interactions with Women

[Calm]

37 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Would you mind listening to the tape and then give me your take on it? Or not..

Can't at the moment...bad week.  Maybe when we get some family issues taken care of by next week.  Clinically talking about dementia is a release, hearing it or reading the actual stuff is a gut punch.  Not come to terms with what is happening with Mom yet.

add-on:  I do realize I am probably misusing this thread for my own benefit, it is helping pass time and put the emotional stuff at a distance, so I appreciate no one calling me on my refusal to listen and read the whole thing before dropping a massive amount of posts.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Calm

[Duncan]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It sounds like she's been through a lot of trauma in her life (even if we don't assume this is true) and I read that she is a recovering alcoholic (but please take that with a grain of salt because there is so much information flying around right now about everyone involved that I'm not sure if that's actually true or not.  It might not be).  

If that is true though, then psychologically it's hard to say what makes sense for her and what doesn't.   Confabulation is a real thing, and it's usually not done with the intent to deceive.  And then there are other deceptive reasons that someone might make false accusations too.  Even those who were actually victimized sometimes do things that make no real sense when looking at the actions or words later.  We can't really rely on 'what makes sense for the accuser to have done' to say whether or not someone is guilty or innocent.  

(And I'm not saying that that's what is happening with her.  I'm just addressing your question of why would someone falsely accuse another person of something so horrible).

yeah, oi, it sounds like reason 69,807 I never went to Law School or got a Doctorate in Psych or something, it's a mess and trying to sort it all out and all these years and different leaders are involved and on and on

[Tacenda]

Just now, Calm said:

Can't at the moment...bad week.  Maybe when we get some family issues taken care of by next week.  Clinically talking about dementia is a release, hearing it or reading the actual stuff is a gut punch.  Not come to terms with what is happening with Mom yet.

I hear you, been there done that. I remember when I'd take mom to an appointment how she'd totally up'd her game, or she'd totally rise to the occasion, and seem a lot better with her dementia/Alzheimer's. 

I hope you have some help Calm, because it's very hard on the caretaker.

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Duncan said:

that's the thing, he can say he has dementia but were I the Crown I would want to know if he had dementia when he made these statements and try to figure it out

One would have to rely on medical reports and those who interact with him on a daily basis if he is good at hiding it.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

Send me an email. Would love to catch up with you. 

BTW, John, send me a PM with e-mail address. Since my accident, I no longer work, so I don't have it still in my computer. Also, give me a few days, because of my injury now, most of my posts are done on my IPad, and My e-mail is not coming through on wifi. I am trying to fix it, or should I say, trying to get one of my sons to fix it. I have a son who makes 200K a year, working most of the time from home, on computer systems the world over, and have trouble getting him to fix my problems after Sunday dinner.  But, at least he is not sleeping on my couch.  

[Calm]

16 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I hear you, been there done that. I remember when I'd take mom to an appointment how she'd totally up'd her game, or she'd totally rise to the occasion, and seem a lot better with her dementia/Alzheimer's. 

I hope you have some help Calm, because it's very hard on the caretaker.

"Up her game"  that is exactly how I have phrased it, lol.  Extra care in appearance, makeup and great clothes are an effective distraction.  Her eagle eye look makes it appear she is intent on what you are saying as well.  That it is completely different from her softer expression of the past and becomes more intense as she gets nervous about missing stuff is often missed by relatives.

Family parties she is always dropping one or two clever remarks in response to what was just said, so the grandkids and others think she is really with it.  She however contributes little to nothing the rest of the time, most likely because she is lost.

I am not looking forward to what you went through.  I am hoping Mom taking care of herself all those years allows her to stay at this level until she decides to go, but if what happened with her mom and grand mom is any sign, that is wishful thinking (though she is much older than they were at this level so who knows).

I have lots of help on everything but decisionmaking and 'discipline'...I hate being mother to my mom.  It is all wrong.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Calm

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, Duncan said:

got a Doctorate in Psych or something, it's a mess and trying to sort it all out...

It is why I dropped any intent on following up my degree in Clinical Psych.  Came to a conclusion it was more trial and error than systematic and reliable at that time and thought I would wait 25 years to see if it became more science than art.  Was going to go back to Math...but then the first kid came and predicting the future became impossible.

[Duncan]

Just now, Calm said:

It is why I dropped any intent on following up my degree in Clinical Psych.  Came to a conclusion it was more trial and error than systematic and reliable at that time and thought I would wait 25 years to see if it became more science than art.  Was going to go back to Math...but then the first kid came and predicting the future became impossible.

other than diapers and stepping on lego and seeing the same movie, 250 times a week, that's true!

[rockpond]

2 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Should we view it any differently if she was still a member? If not, what is the value of the descriptor. They could have mentioned that she was Caucasian, or blonde, or tall, which may all be "accurate", but also have no bearing on the accusation.

Point taken. 

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, Duncan said:

other than diapers and stepping on lego and seeing the same movie, 250 times a week, that's true!

I am forever sick of Little Mermaid and Aladdin even if I haven't seen them in over a decade.

[Duncan]

Just now, Calm said:

I am forever sick of Little Mermaid and Aladdin even if I haven't seen them in over a decade.

my son was into the Wiggles, Australian singing group. I took him to see their show when they came here, he blew his mind out ! which was cool for him! 

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Point taken. 

Someone who is an exwife will generally be more likely to have negative ideas about her former husband than someone who is a wife.  Generally people don't leave a faith because they like it too much.

[rockpond]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Do you consider it possible that the allegations that were at the level to require formal discipline are false?

Do you feel comfortable with church leaders using the explanation "I am inspired that you are an apostate even if you say you believe in Christ and sustain the prophets, I know by inspiration you are lying" to excommunicate someone?

Per Bishop, prior to the audio recording (Dec 2017), no leader ever discussed the accusations with him nor was a disciplinary council ever convened.  So, it would appear that up until a couple months ago, church leaders had never tried to determine the veracity of the accusations. 

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Duncan said:

my son was into the Wiggles, Australian singing group. I took him to see their show when they came here, he blew his mind out ! which was cool for him! 

Thankfully that was after my time and Barney was never that big.  Otoh, it allowed me to leave the room and get work somewhere else done so I shouldn't totally trash it.  I did have to endure Polkadot Door though.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Calm

[rockpond]

2 hours ago, ttribe said:

How many chances did the Spirit have with this man? How many leaders were wrong, how many times?  Your angry defense does not serve your purpose well when you ignore the facts.

Yep... five missions and numerous leadership callings for a man who self-describes as a man who had not been able to control his sex addiction throughout his life, with the exception of the last few years. 

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Per Bishop, prior to the audio recording (Dec 2017), no leader ever discussed the accusations with him nor was a disciplinary council ever convened.

Yeah...I don't trust Bishop on two levels...if he has dementia, he might have rewritten history unintentionally.  Otoh, if he is a predator, he might have rewritten history intentionally.  Claiming he was never under serious investigation makes it appear others are dismissive of her claims, don't believe her at all, etc.

[Tacenda]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

"Up her game"  that is exactly how I have phrased it, lol.  Extra care in appearance, makeup and great clothes are an effective distraction.  Her eagle eye look makes it appear she is intent on what you are saying as well.  That it is completely different from her softer expression of the past and becomes more intense as she gets nervous about missing stuff is often missed by relatives.

Family parties she is always dropping one or two clever remarks in response to what was just said, so the grandkids and others think she is really with it.  She however contributes little to nothing the rest of the time, most likely because she is lost.

I am not looking forward to what you went through.  I am hoping Mom taking care of herself all those years allows her to stay at this level until she decides to go, but if what happened with her mom and grand mom is any sign, that is wishful thinking (though she is much older than they were at this level so who knows).

You're going to get sick of me fast, but if she starts to get agitated or can't concentrate, you may want to give her Cannabis oil (CBD oil). I get mine online. If you get time, look on the internet about Alzheimer's and CBD oil. It is amazing. Here's a youtube of the difference it made for this woman.

 

[rockpond]

2 hours ago, why me said:

Who are they? Men and women make mistakes. But in the case of the woman and the now 85 year old man, what should be done? Should the man be found guilty without evidence? Should we just go by her word?

We definitely should not just go by her word. 

Have you listened to the recording?  He doesn’t confess to the attempted rape but he doesn’t deny it either.  And he apologizes repeatedly (not that an apology is necessarily an admission of guilt).

[bluebell]

14 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Per Bishop, prior to the audio recording (Dec 2017), no leader ever discussed the accusations with him nor was a disciplinary council ever convened.  So, it would appear that up until a couple months ago, church leaders had never tried to determine the veracity of the accusations. 

The church claims they did in 2010.  Are you suggesting the church isn't being truthful?  (Not trying to be snarky, just trying to figure out if i understand what you are saying.)

[bluebell]

48 minutes ago, Duncan said:

that's the thing, he can say he has dementia but were I the Crown I would want to know if he had dementia when he made these statements and try to figure it out

Returned missionaries who had him as a president have claimed that he's had dementia for years.  Not sure how accurate that is.

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

You're going to get sick of me fast, but if she starts to get agitated or can't concentrate, you may want to give her Cannabis oil (CBD oil). I get mine online. If you get time, look on the internet about Alzheimer's and CBD oil. It is amazing. Here's a youtube of the difference it made for this woman.

 

I would have to slip it to her and not likely to do that unless she is living with me and .I have her doctor's approval.

We are going to ask my daughter's psychiatrist what she thinks about it btw.  We are rather eager to see if that could help her.

Given the drugs I already take, I don't dare add that to the mix on my own.  20 years ago when it was all self help, you bet I would be trying it.

[omni]

2 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

You are making assumptions that I don't.  I may not have such lofty expectations of other men, regardless of being called to serve, that you appear to have.  I don't assume that even those who are gifted with discernement that such is being used 24 hours a day every day of the year.  

24/7 discernment may be a bit too much of an ask, but how about once during the three years Bishop served as the MTC President?

How about once every 18 years?  Richard Lyman committed adultry from 1925-1943 while serving as an apostle.  If the entire Q15 can go 18 years without discerning one of its own is in an adulterous relationship, then what value is the power of discernment?

[rockpond]

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

"Served briefly as a missionary in 1984" actually serves to corroborate at least a portion of the accusation.

It wasn’t necessary to insert the word “briefly”.   After listening to the recording, I doubt the woman involved would describe it as brief. 

[rockpond]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Based on the transcript I would say he could easily have some level of dementia. The audio would be a better indicator but I do not have that kind of time.

I listened to the audio and didn’t notice anything that seemed like dementia.  But I am not trained in such things. 

[Danzo]

7 minutes ago, rockpond said:

It wasn’t necessary to insert the word “briefly”.   After listening to the recording, I doubt the woman involved would describe it as brief. 

Seems a bit picky to attack one word in a phrase that supports some facts of the allegation.

 

Edited March 21, 2018 by Danzo