MormonLeaks: Former Mormon Mission President Admitting to Inappropriate Interactions with Women

[Calm]

13 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

It appears that this man is a former university president? LINK

Yes.  From his Amazon book page:

"Dr. Joseph Layton Bishop Jr. was born in the small farming community of Delta, Utah. Among the many things he learned while on the farm was that farmers could not then and cannot now control the early and late frosts, the untimely raging rains, or the fierce winds that often blow newly mown hay into the next county.One cold wintry night, while struggling to dam up an overflowing irrigation ditch (with ice-cold water pouring into his mud-entombed boot all the while), he made a life-changing decision: he was not going to be a farmer.He was going to be a university professor. The next year he unceremoniously left the farm to pursue his goal.Later, his career path quickly led him from teaching into administrative positions. He cut his first administrative teeth as the director of the Haitian-American Institute in Port-au-Prince, Haiti. He later accepted a position as director of instruction at Mt. San Jacinto College in Hemet, California.About the Author 194 Jospeh L. Bishop Following that, he accepted a position as academic vice president of the newly created Prairie State College in Chicago Heights, Illinois. Later he became the executive director of a consortium of progressive colleges called GT- 70, based in Miami, Florida. Subsequently, he was offered the post of president of Weber State College in Ogden, Utah.Near the end of his administration at Weber State, he received a call from the Church to be the president of the Buenos Aires North Mission in Argentina, the same country he had served in as a young man. After his mission, the Church again called him to serve, this time as president of the Missionary Training Center in Provo, Utah.He later served two additional missions for the Church, one as the area welfare agent for Central America and one as acting president of the Samoa Apia Mission.He is married to Rena M. Davis, a retired nurse, and between the two of them, they have ten children, more grandchildren than they ever could have wished for, and a few great-grandchildren. Both now retired, they live in beautiful St. George, Utah."

https://www.amazon.com/Ways-Love-Your-Mission-Time-Tested/dp/1621087336

The book was first published 2012 (ps:  oops, no, that was the other one)I believe, paperback 2014, so it appears he has moved since then...someone said he is currently in Arizona iirc.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Calm

[jkwilliams]

6 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Amen, sickening on so many levels. These Young Women, are there in the service of God, and his Church. They should feel as safe there, just in there rooms at home. It would have been a sad day, if my daughter had called and told me this happened. No one could ever know how difficult his actions made her mission, and any other girl, how devastating these young soul who must endure this burden, along with the high's and low's of serving a full time mission. There are some places that even bad men will act civivlized, but for someone to do this to a "child", is to burden her for life. This is made clear by her efforts, so many years after. Although a very busy place, I am told the Spirit is strong in this place, even like unto a Temple in many way. If bad men can act more reverent in such places, this man is lower than a bad man. 

I think the scripture would apply here, "Woe unto any who would harm a child, for it would have been better that he had never been born, it would be better that had a millstone put round his neck and be cast into the sea". Doing this from memories, but I think this is somewhere between Matthew 5-7. 

I was talking to a friend last night for whom Joseph Bishop was also the MTC president, and he reminded me of something I had completely forgotten. President Bishop often spoke of a vision he said he had. In this vision he saw that the whole world was full of dark, evil spirits, but when you came to the MTC, there was a vanguard of angels and Nephite warriors surrounding the temple, protecting the missionaries and keeping the evil spirits out. He would tell us that any sin we committed at the MTC was the same as allowing one of those evil spirits to enter and drive out the spirit from our midst. Seems awfully ironic.

A few things really stand out. My heart breaks for this woman, who came to the MTC for all the right reasons and was preyed upon by someone who recognized and used her vulnerability. I am horrified to know that she reported his actions to a general authority and was ignored. That seems like an even greater betrayal, almost, than the original offense. Finally, reading the transcript, Bishop seems to believe he is some sort of victim in all this, and it was especially galling when he said he felt like he would have been a GA if not for this. At least he had the decency to admit what he did.

What a sad, sordid affair. I sincerely hope that the church is learning from its past mistakes in matters like this. Any organization is only as good as the people who run it, and the church is no exception. In this case, multiple people did wrong, either through overt actions harming this sister or through passively ignoring what was right in front of them.

And I can't say enough about how brave she was to finally confront him. It took me over 20 years to confront my abuser, so I know how hard it must have been.

[jkwilliams]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Yes.  From his Amazon book page:

"Dr. Joseph Layton Bishop Jr. was born in the small farming community of Delta, Utah. Among the many things he learned while on the farm was that farmers could not then and cannot now control the early and late frosts, the untimely raging rains, or the fierce winds that often blow newly mown hay into the next county.One cold wintry night, while struggling to dam up an overflowing irrigation ditch (with ice-cold water pouring into his mud-entombed boot all the while), he made a life-changing decision: he was not going to be a farmer.He was going to be a university professor. The next year he unceremoniously left the farm to pursue his goal.Later, his career path quickly led him from teaching into administrative positions. He cut his first administrative teeth as the director of the Haitian-American Institute in Port-au-Prince, Haiti. He later accepted a position as director of instruction at Mt. San Jacinto College in Hemet, California.About the Author 194 Jospeh L. Bishop Following that, he accepted a position as academic vice president of the newly created Prairie State College in Chicago Heights, Illinois. Later he became the executive director of a consortium of progressive colleges called GT- 70, based in Miami, Florida. Subsequently, he was offered the post of president of Weber State College in Ogden, Utah.Near the end of his administration at Weber State, he received a call from the Church to be the president of the Buenos Aires North Mission in Argentina, the same country he had served in as a young man. After his mission, the Church again called him to serve, this time as president of the Missionary Training Center in Provo, Utah.He later served two additional missions for the Church, one as the area welfare agent for Central America and one as acting president of the Samoa Apia Mission.He is married to Rena M. Davis, a retired nurse, and between the two of them, they have ten children, more grandchildren than they ever could have wished for, and a few great-grandchildren. Both now retired, they live in beautiful St. George, Utah."

https://www.amazon.com/Ways-Love-Your-Mission-Time-Tested/dp/1621087336

The book was first published 2012 (ps:  oops, no, that was the other one)I believe, paperback 2014, so it appears he has moved since then...someone said he is currently in Arizona iirc.

Yes, his Facebook page says he's living in Arizona now.

[Duncan]

6 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Has anyone actually spoken to the stake presidency? I would. And I certainly wouldn't assume that they've read what he's written. I've also raised concerns with the area presidency, which were then addressed in the very next training we had. We're under obligation, in my opinion, to make sure our leaders are informed -- something I've always been taught.

I don't know, but I kind of think they are desperate for leadership and they'll take literally anybody and turn a blind eye to stuff. I like that idea that we should inform our leaders to make sure they make informed decisions!

[Duncan]

Someone suggested, I think Cinepro perhaps, just simply ask why do you want to attend the Temple? their response will probably tell you more about someone's motivation to go than anything else. As in you can say yes to paying tithing but still have little or no charity towards people less fortunate than yourself, and I think being charitable should be an by product of paying tithing but apparently not everyone thinks that, whited sepulchres

[rpn]

12 hours ago, Teancum said:

It is simple. God is not involved at all. Men are. The men extending the calls have no special line to God. We just want to believe they do.  But they don't.  This should help you to really challenge the idea that some God is directing this.  It is a hard thing to do. 

But I know from my own experience that people who do extend calls can and do have not a special, because is available to all, but a line to God.    I guess I didn't make clear that I cannot see God having inspired these calls.   But I do know for a fact that He does inspire callings, and doesn't let listening leaders mess it up.    The only thing I can think in this case is that there were no listening leaders.   And/or there was no leader hit up side the head and told not to make the callings.   I'm not sure how anyone gets to the idea that the spirit of discernment guarantees that nothing bad will ever happen in the church.

And I think the person who described what happened (1st page 7th or so post) did not give a fully accurate account, having missed names/other things that could identify people of those told, and additional behavior Bishop confessed to:  you have to wade through 76 pages of transcript.  

[CV75]

16 hours ago, sunstoned said:

This has just been released and is generating a lot of discussion.  The accused is a former MTC mission president and author of two books carried by Desert Book.  However, today Deseret Book has pulled his books from circulation.  

https://mormonleaks.io/newsroom/2018/03/19/mormonleaks-releases-of-former-mormon-mission-president-admitting-inappropriate-interactions/

How titillating!

[Storm Rider]

9 hours ago, drums12 said:

Herein lies the crux of the matter, as far as I'm concerned.  Church culture,and in many cases correlated teachings, put leaders on pedestals...they are almost "wholly other."  If someone is a MP, SP, GA, etc etc he must be much more righteous than the average joe.  I don't think it was this way in the early days.  Early brethren weren't just "yes" men.   The mentality now is, in my opinion, and to my perception, that the Brethren are to be "sustained" no matter what.  

Not so much for me - this is more like a repeated stereotype from decades ago. I am an old, fat man and I left type of thinking as a teenager.  I sustain them to act as one willing to serve and called of god to serve.  I don't sustain them as perfect men or even more spiritual men - just individuals willing to serve.  

No one evades judgment or responsibility for their actions.  We may think that some skate by without ever having to answer for their egregious sins, but there is a judgment day and we do pay for sins for which we have not repented. 

I wish the Church would excommunicate individuals more often.  The man, Bishop, would benefit greatly from being excommunicated yesterday.  

Lastly, I do think there is a bit of a Utah syndrome - the Brethren call who they know and they only know Utah people.  I think they may even think that Utah saints have a superior understanding or knowledge of how to be leaders.  Yet, individuals who are willing to serve are called - not because they are perfect or that they are better leaders - they are simply willing.  

[jkwilliams]

14 minutes ago, CV75 said:

How titillating!

Uh, if you find such things titillating, I'm not sure what to say. Of course, the one time I said anything here about abuse I experienced, it was suggested that it was lurid and marginally pornographic. Maybe it's a good thing to talk about uncomfortable topics like this because there is a reason they are uncomfortable.

Edited March 20, 2018 by jkwilliams

[smac97]

9 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Uh, if you find such things titillating, I'm not sure what to say. Of course, the one time I said anything here about abuse I experienced, it was suggested that it was lurid and marginally pornographic. Maybe it's a good thing to talk about uncomfortable topics like this because there is a reason they are uncomfortable.

I agree with the sentiment here.  I think we need to be very circumspect, tactful, and solemn in discussing such serious topics.  No room for sarcasm, levity, etc.

Thanks,

-Smac

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I agree with the sentiment here.  I think we need to be very circumspect, tactful, and solemn in discussing such serious topics.  No room for sarcasm, levity, etc.

Thanks,

-Smac

Yes, that's exactly how I feel.

BTW, if anyone's interested, my daughter's home restoration after the flood is officially complete. Oddly enough, even though several of the houses in the neighborhood are still uninhabited and undergoing major work, the homeowners' association sent my daughter a notice that their front lawn wasn't up to neighborhood standards. I suppose a flood followed by a couple of months when the lawn was covered with debris will do that. Anyway, they had enough money to buy the sod, but not enough to install it, so the elders quorum came over on Saturday and put the sod in for them. I'm always grateful for the service so many Latter-day Saints are willing to give. If it hadn't been for the generosity of church members, my daughter might still be out of her home.

[hope_for_things]

7 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Track positives, ignore negatives

Wow, track your positives and ignore negatives.  It seems like this was his MO.  Besides all the other problematic issues that were revealed in this recording, I found it especially disturbing that Mr. Bishop continued to try and fix his problem without professional help and without real accountability for his actions.

Ignore negatives?  Is this part of the culture of Mormonism?  I surely hope its not, however I worry about the precedents set by early church leaders, the deceptions that were perpetuated, the cover-ups, and lack of accountability for mistakes made.  Even the we don't apologize ideal espoused in recent years by President Oaks.  It seems to me that our Mormon culture has a serious problem here.  

[CV75]

48 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Uh, if you find such things titillating, I'm not sure what to say. Of course, the one time I said anything here about abuse I experienced, it was suggested that it was lurid and marginally pornographic. Maybe it's a good thing to talk about uncomfortable topics like this because there is a reason they are uncomfortable.

The thread’s title focuses on the mission president’s admission of inappropriate (whatever that means) interactions (whatever that means) with women, so I took it to be (another) gossipy gesture to titillate. How am to know that I am supposed elevate MormonLeaks’ tabloid arm as the go-to source for virtue-signaling, and peruse its offerings when presented in this fashion? Are there no better news sources and articles to discuss about the topic of concern (not sure what it is supposed to be, exactly) that should be discussed? Does suffering the wrath of Deseret Books really indicate the significance of an issue?

41 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I agree with the sentiment here.  I think we need to be very circumspect, tactful, and solemn in discussing such serious topics.  No room for sarcasm, levity, etc.

Yes, MormonLeaks is every bit of that!

[JAHS]

14 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Wow, track your positives and ignore negatives.  It seems like this was his MO.  Besides all the other problematic issues that were revealed in this recording, I found it especially disturbing that Mr. Bishop continued to try and fix his problem without professional help and without real accountability for his actions.

Ignore negatives?  Is this part of the culture of Mormonism?  I surely hope its not, however I worry about the precedents set by early church leaders, the deceptions that were perpetuated, the cover-ups, and lack of accountability for mistakes made.  Even the we don't apologize ideal espoused in recent years by President Oaks.  It seems to me that our Mormon culture has a serious problem here.  

I would not say we should ignore the negatives, but we should at least not let the few of them outweigh the effects of all the positives that pervade the church and most of its leaders. We should not let the actions of a few be the deciding factor on the truthfulness of the Church and the direction of our testimonies and growth in the Church. 
This is a sad thing but I am not surprised by it. I had a stake president once who was a doctor and was molesting his female patients and performing unnecessary experimental medical procedures on them. He was later caught and arrested and excommunicated from the church. So it happens and will continue to happen. 

[CV75]

53 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Yes, that's exactly how I feel.

That's great, because apparently the issue of concern here is this man's misdeeds as representative of Church culture and the need to bring leaders down a notch.

[bluebell]

7 minutes ago, CV75 said:

That's great, because apparently the issue of concern here is this man's misdeeds as representative of Church culture and the need to bring leaders down a notch.

You really think that posters like Smac or Calm or PaPa are concerned with bringing leaders down a notch??

[jkwilliams]

11 minutes ago, CV75 said:

That's great, because apparently the issue of concern here is this man's misdeeds as representative of Church culture and the need to bring leaders down a notch.

I'm not seeing that here, but OK.

[jkwilliams]

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

You really think that posters like Smac or Calm or PaPa are concerned with bringing leaders down a notch??

Well, Smac, definitely. 

[Investigator]

It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the Church, even if the criticism is true.” ~ Dallin H. Oaks

[CV75]

18 minutes ago, bluebell said:

You really think that posters like Smac or Calm or PaPa are concerned with bringing leaders down a notch??

I'm not reading the names, just the preponderance of posts, and they're mostly about the man and Church culture... maybe the tide will change; we're less than 2 pages in.

 

[bluebell]

Just now, CV75 said:

I'm not reading the names, just the preponderance of posts, and they're mostly about the man and Church culture... maybe the tide will change; we're less than 2 pages in.

 

It seems weird to make accusations about what the posters in the thread are trying to do without paying attention to what has actually been said in the thread and by whom.  I agree though that we are only a day in and things are likely to evolve.

[bluebell]

13 minutes ago, Investigator said:

It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the Church, even if the criticism is true.” ~ Dallin H. Oaks

Can we get this quote in context?  

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, bluebell said:

It seems weird to make accusations about what the posters in the thread are trying to do without paying attention to what has actually been said in the thread and by whom.  I agree though that we are only a day in and things are likely to evolve.

Speaking only for myself, this isn't at all in keeping with my experience with church culture. It sounds like the sister in question did the right thing in reporting this church leaders, and it's pretty shocking that nothing was done. Does that mean it is "Church culture" to ignore allegations of abuse? Of course not, which is why this is so disturbing. 

[MDalby]

Quote

HW: You used an interesting phrase, “Not everything that’s true is useful.” Could you develop that as someone who’s a scholar and trying to encourage deep searching? 

DHO: The talk where I gave that was a talk on “Reading Church History” — that was the title of the talk. And in the course of the talk I said many things about being skeptical in your reading and looking for bias and looking for context and a lot of things that were in that perspective. But I said two things in it and the newspapers and anybody who ever referred to the talk only referred to [those] two things: one is the one you cite, “Not everything that’s true is useful,” and that [meant] “was useful to say or to publish.” And you tell newspapers any time (media people) [that] they can’t publish something, they’ll strap on their armor and come out to slay you! [Laughs.] 

I also said something else that has excited people: that it’s wrong to criticize leaders of the Church, even if the criticism is true, because it diminishes their effectiveness as a servant of the Lord. One can work to correct them by some other means, but don’t go about saying that they misbehaved when they were a youngster or whatever. Well, of course, that sounds like religious censorship also. 

But not everything that’s true is useful. I am a lawyer, and I hear something from a client. It’s true, but I’ll be disciplined professionally if I share it because it’s part of the attorney-client privilege. There’s a husband-wife privilege, there’s a priest-penitent privilege, and so on. That’s an illustration of the fact that not everything that’s true is useful to be shared. 

In relation to history, I was speaking in that talk for the benefit of those that write history. In the course of writing history, I said that people ought to be careful in what they publish because not everything that’s true is useful. See a person in context; don’t depreciate their effectiveness in one area because they have some misbehavior in another area — especially from their youth. I think that’s the spirit of that. I think I’m not talking necessarily just about writing Mormon history; I’m talking about George Washington or any other case. If he had an affair with a girl when he was a teenager, I don’t need to read that when I’m trying to read a biography of the Founding Father of our nation. 

 

[MDalby]

Quote

We live in a society that feeds on criticism. Faultfinding is the substance of columnists and commentators, and there is too much of this among our own people. It is so easy to find fault, and to resist doing so requires much of discipline. But if as a people we will build and sustain one another, the Lord will bless us with the strength to weather every storm and continue to move forward through every adversity.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1982, p. 69; or Ensign, May 1982, p. 46.)

Criticism is particularly objectionable when it is directed toward Church authorities, general or local. Jude condemns those who “speak evil of dignities” (Jude 1:8). Evil speaking of the Lord’s anointed is in a class by itself. It is one thing to depreciate a person who exercises corporate power or even government power. It is quite another thing to criticize or depreciate a person for the performance of an office to which he or she has been called of God. It does not matter that the criticism is true. As President George F. Richards of the Council of the Twelve said in a conference address in April 1947, “When we say anything bad about the leaders of the Church, whether true or false, we tend to impair their influence and their usefulness and are thus working against the Lord and his cause” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1947, p. 24).

The young warrior David recognized that we are never justified in any gesture or act against the Lord’s anointed. Saul, the wicked king, was pursuing David without cause and seeking to take his life. While King Saul slept with his troops around him, David and one of his soldiers stealthily crept to his side. Declaring that God had delivered him into their hands, David’s companion was about to kill Saul with his own spear. “Destroy him not,” David ordered, “for who can stretch forth his hand against the Lord’s anointed, and be guiltless?” (1 Samuel 26:9).

The Holy Ghost will not guide or confirm criticism of the Lord’s anointed, or of Church leaders, local or general. This reality should be part of the spiritual evaluation that Latter-day Saint readers and viewers apply to those things written about our history and those who made it.