Mike Pence

[SamuelTheLamanite]

I disagree with Mike Pence on almost everything, but last year he said some beautiful (and prophetic) words. Mike Pence said he never eats alone with a woman other than his wife. Now the detroitnews is reporting "Mike Pence is starting to look really wise"

The world is becoming more wicked. The law of chastity means nothing to the world. Sexual abuse is on the rise. False accusations are on the rise.  Recently a "Yale Student Found Not Guilty in Rape Trial" after being expelled from the university.

What can we do to stop the rise of sexual assault and false accusations? The answer is the Law of God. If young people stop going to places that don't invite the spirit, then nothing bad is going to happen to them. God gave us the Law of Chastity and the Word of Wisdom for a good reason. The law of chastity and the Word of Wisdom will help us stay out of danger. There is no doubt the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom.

[SamuelTheLamanite]

The news article reports, "On the night of the alleged assault, the complainant said, she attended an off-campus party with her friends, where she had several drinks — the first time she had ever been drunk, she said."

Not only did she put herself in danger, she wrongly accused someone of rape according to the court. All of this wouldn't happen if young people simply stop going to places that don't invite the spirit. The Word of Wisdom is very important in our days. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite

[snowflake]

10 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

I disagree with Mike Pence on almost everything, but last year he said some beautiful (and prophetic) words. Mike Pence said he never eats alone with a woman other than his wife. Now the detroitnews is reporting "Mike Pence is starting to look really wise"

The world is becoming more wicked. The law of chastity means nothing to the world. Sexual abuse is on the rise. False accusations are on the rise.  Recently a "Yale Student Found Not Guilty in Rape Trial" after being expelled from the university.

What can we do to stop the rise of sexual assault and false accusations? The answer is the Law of God. If young people stop going to places that don't invite the spirit, then nothing bad is going to happen to them. God gave us the Law of Chastity and the Word of Wisdom for a good reason. The law of chastity and the Word of Wisdom will help us stay out of danger. There is no doubt the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom.

Mike Pence's policy on not eating alone with another woman is genius in the face of the #metoo movement. He was attacked as being a sexist for this policy when he was just trying to protect himself and his marriage. 

[hope_for_things]

10 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

I disagree with Mike Pence on almost everything, but last year he said some beautiful (and prophetic) words. Mike Pence said he never eats alone with a woman other than his wife. Now the detroitnews is reporting "Mike Pence is starting to look really wise"

The world is becoming more wicked. The law of chastity means nothing to the world. Sexual abuse is on the rise. False accusations are on the rise.  Recently a "Yale Student Found Not Guilty in Rape Trial" after being expelled from the university.

What can we do to stop the rise of sexual assault and false accusations? The answer is the Law of God. If young people stop going to places that don't invite the spirit, then nothing bad is going to happen to them. God gave us the Law of Chastity and the Word of Wisdom for a good reason. The law of chastity and the Word of Wisdom will help us stay out of danger. There is no doubt the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom.

Awareness about sexual abuse is on the rise, and public conversations about it are also on the rise, those are good things and sign that we as a society are finally taking this problem seriously.  But I'm unaware of evidence to support your claim that actual abuse is on the rise, everything I've seen has shown the exact opposite.  If you can support that claim with statistics, please provide some support.  Otherwise, consider that the public conversations on this subject are actually a good thing and part of the a healthy process that we need to bring the abuse out of the dark corners and into the open. 

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf

As for Pence's statement, and for the many Mormon's who may echo this idea, there are problems with this belief.  In order to illustrate the problems with this rule that Pence espouses, we have to flip the proposition to see how its problematic.  If Pence were a woman, if the majority of all leaders in powerful positions in government and business were women, and if these women were then proposing that they should never eat alone with a man other than their spouse because of the danger involved in doing so.  How would this change your opinion?  

Economic opportunities are stifled and impacted in very real ways by such a policy.  What does that tell us about how much trust we should have in ourselves for self control?  I'm sure Pence thinks he's doing right and protecting himself and his image, however, there are real life problems with a policy like this.  

[Calm]

"young people stop going to places that don't invite the spirit, then nothing bad is going to happen to them"

You have a very simplistic view of rape.  It will continue to happen because people are assaulted and raped in their homes, at work, walking in parks, at stores, and even at church.

It may cut down on some opportunistic rapes, but it won't prevent all rapes, or car crashes, or lethal diseases, or many other bad things.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Calm

[Duncan]

I think it's great he won't do that but in terms of the Church though, closed door interviews with teens, specifically talking about sexual matters? I don't know

[Robert F. Smith]

11 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

................................ If young people stop going to places that don't invite the spirit, then nothing bad is going to happen to them. ...............

 

11 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

...................... All of this wouldn't happen if young people simply stop going to places that don't invite the spirit..........................

Certainly good advice, Sam, but your claim that nothing bad will happen is just not so.  They do reduce the likelihood of bad things happening, but do not foreclose that possibility.  A good man does not have to do anything wrong in order to find himself accused.  It can happen to anyone.  Anytime.  A word to the wise.

[cinepro]

11 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

If young people stop going to places that don't invite the spirit, then nothing bad is going to happen to them. God gave us the Law of Chastity and the Word of Wisdom for a good reason.

As others have pointed out, that's where you go off the rails. 

We can obviously try to minimize the risks by avoiding certain situations, but sadly, sexual assault can (and does) happen to the most innocent and righteous, and sometimes in places that should invite the spirit the most (i.e. home or church).

[Duncan]

5 minutes ago, cinepro said:

As others have pointed out, that's where you go off the rails. 

We can obviously try to minimize the risks by avoiding certain situations, but sadly, sexual assault can (and does) happen to the most innocent and righteous, and sometimes in places that should invite the spirit the most (i.e. home or church).

I think it's in Mosiah, where the lamanite daughters were out dancing and making themselves merry and behold and lo along came the Skunky priests of King Noah and the women got kidnapped. The women were in a safe place and just having a good time and trouble found them

[cinepro]

5 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I think it's in Mosiah, where the lamanite daughters were out dancing and making themselves merry and behold and lo along came the Skunky priests of King Noah and the women got kidnapped. The women were in a safe place and just having a good time and trouble found them

If my study of National Geographic when I was 11 years old taught me anything, if the Book of Mormon took place in Mesoamerica those Lamanite daughters were probably dressed very immodestly.

[pogi]

12 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

If young people stop going to places that don't invite the spirit, then nothing bad is going to happen to them. 

This sounds an awful lot like victim blaming. 

[Duncan]

23 minutes ago, cinepro said:

If my study of National Geographic when I was 11 years old taught me anything, if the Book of Mormon took place in Mesoamerica those Lamanite daughters were probably dressed very immodestly.

probably! I don't think they anticipated randy priests lurking by

[Stargazer]

44 minutes ago, pogi said:

This sounds an awful lot like victim blaming. 

I get a bit grumpy when people start talking don't blame the victim. That's because sometimes victims do contribute towards their victimhood by being in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people.

For example, I've never been mugged. But I've also never gotten drunk and walked down dark alleys in the wee hours of the morning -- which possibly explains how it is I've never gotten mugged.

On the other hand, there have been people who have been mugged in completely innocuous locations at innocuous times -- but darned few of them. For the obvious reason.  Yes, being in the wrong place at the wrong time is no excuse for someone to mug you, and it isn't all your fault, but that's no excuse for not taking proper precautions.  

 

[SamuelTheLamanite]

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

As others have pointed out, that's where you go off the rails. 

We can obviously try to minimize the risks by avoiding certain situations, but sadly, sexual assault can (and does) happen to the most innocent and righteous, and sometimes in places that should invite the spirit the most (i.e. home or church).

I retract, but it will avoid a dangerous situation for many.

2 hours ago, Calm said:

It may cut down on some opportunistic rapes, but it won't prevent all rapes, or car crashes, or lethal diseases, or many other bad things.

It won't prevent all rapes because wicked men and women have free agency. All we can do is avoid dangerous situations. 

1 hour ago, pogi said:

This sounds an awful lot like victim blaming. 

Who was the victim in the Yale case?

It is best to avoid possible dangerous situations. God's commandments help us stay safe.  

Edited March 13, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite

[pogi]

3 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Who was the victim in the Yale case?

I am responding to this (not the Yale case):

Quote

If young people stop going to places that don't invite the spirit, then nothing bad is going to happen to them. 

 

[SamuelTheLamanite]

2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

They do reduce the likelihood of bad things happening, but do not foreclose that possibility. 

Yes, that is what I meant. I was writing the OP late at night.

[SamuelTheLamanite]

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

I am responding to this (not the Yale case):

I never blame victims.

Edited March 13, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite

[pogi]

1 minute ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

I never blame victims.

Then what did you mean by this statement?

Quote

If young people stop going to places that don't invite the spirit, then nothing bad is going to happen to them. 

This, to me, sounds like you are making the victim at least partially responsible by going to "places that don't invite the spirit", or by violating the word of wisdom (from your OP).

https://definitions.uslegal.com/v/victim-blaming/

 

[Jeanne]

I very much respect Pence. Being a Christian means very much to me.  I love saying Merry Christmas.  In the place in the world where Pence lives..He is definitely right to dine only with his wife.  This does not mean that I can take away what others feel or believe.  But when one of newscasters slammed him..I found out I was more devout than not.  This has nothing to do with being fair or right.  It has to do with respect.

[snowflake]

3 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

As for Pence's statement, and for the many Mormon's who may echo this idea, there are problems with this belief.  In order to illustrate the problems with this rule that Pence espouses, we have to flip the proposition to see how its problematic.  If Pence were a woman, if the majority of all leaders in powerful positions in government and business were women, and if these women were then proposing that they should never eat alone with a man other than their spouse because of the danger involved in doing so.  How would this change your opinion?  

Economic opportunities are stifled and impacted in very real ways by such a policy.  What does that tell us about how much trust we should have in ourselves for self control?  I'm sure Pence thinks he's doing right and protecting himself and his image, however, there are real life problems with a policy like this. 

This rule is perfectly fine both ways, I would feel very uncomfortable with my spouse eating alone, travelling alone, checking into a hotel and go to business meetings alone with someone of the opposite sex.  These situations are a recipe for marital problems in my opinion.

There are simple ways around the Pence policy, don't eat alone!

[Jeanne]

31 minutes ago, snowflake said:

This rule is perfectly fine both ways, I would feel very uncomfortable with my spouse eating alone, travelling alone, checking into a hotel and go to business meetings alone with someone of the opposite sex.  These situations are a recipe for marital problems in my opinion.

There are simple ways around the Pence policy, don't eat alone!

Don't eat alone!!  Hey ...I  agree there...and I had to trust my husband on many business trips.  I was okay with that.  I am just thinking the way the world is now..Pence is wise..and it is his decision...I respect him for that.  His view is not for everyone..and not for every Christian. 

[snowflake]

7 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Don't eat alone!!  Hey ...I  agree there...and I had to trust my husband on many business trips.  I was okay with that.  I am just thinking the way the world is now..Pence is wise..and it is his decision...I respect him for that.  His view is not for everyone..and not for every Christian. 

I understand where you are coming from with the view of the woman. And I do agree with you that women are going to suffer from this type of policy.  Unfortunately this #metoo movement is making things worse in my opinon. Getting to the top in the business world is extremely difficult and takes a very stubborn and strong willed person. Quite often the business man put their careers ahead of their spouse and family on their way to the top. I image men in these positions are going to adopt more of a Pence like position simply to protect themselves and their careers at the expense of many brilliant and talented business women. 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

I get a bit grumpy when people start talking don't blame the victim. That's because sometimes victims do contribute towards their victimhood by being in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people.

For example, I've never been mugged. But I've also never gotten drunk and walked down dark alleys in the wee hours of the morning -- which possibly explains how it is I've never gotten mugged.

On the other hand, there have been people who have been mugged in completely innocuous locations at innocuous times -- but darned few of them. For the obvious reason.  Yes, being in the wrong place at the wrong time is no excuse for someone to mug you, and it isn't all your fault, but that's no excuse for not taking proper precautions.  

If someone neglected to take "proper precautions" by drinking at a party, and was raped at the party, do you really feel that she has some fault?  Is your daughter going to feel safe to talk to you about being victimized at a party if that is the case?  Think of the shame that places on the victim to think that they are somehow responsible for at least a part of being sexually assaulted against her will. 

Some good info here:

http://stoprelationshipabuse.org/educated/avoiding-victim-blaming/

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, snowflake said:

This rule is perfectly fine both ways, I would feel very uncomfortable with my spouse eating alone, travelling alone, checking into a hotel and go to business meetings alone with someone of the opposite sex.  These situations are a recipe for marital problems in my opinion.

There are simple ways around the Pence policy, don't eat alone!

The basic assumption that a grown person can't be trusted alone with someone of the opposite sex is not a basic assumption that I think is healthy or necessary.  

Also, the fact that this kind of policy limits the opportunities for women everywhere, is also of concern.  

I have concerns with how these ideas have an effect on our culture and on us individually.  I can't logically defend the position just because a person is "uncomfortable" with the circumstances.  Often the lack of comfort is a culturally programmed feeling based on traditional norms that have developed in a society.  That doesn't mean the discomfort is rational or defensible though, and I think we ought to examine these issues and make changes where necessary.  

[hope_for_things]

38 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Pence is wise..and it is his decision.

Why do you think this is a wise choice by Pence.  I would argue that its a position that he takes based on fear of perceptions and fear of potential moral failing.  How is this wise?