#Never Again

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, Gray said:

There was an armed security guard at the school. He froze and didn't help.

Right.  Armed law enforcement on site did nothing.
The unarmed hero teachers gave everything.  Too bad they weren't the ones armed.  Fortunately in Utah (where there have basically been no school shootings) they are.

Edited February 23, 2018 by JLHPROF

[snowflake]

29 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

AR-15s have ammunition with more stopping power and larger magazines available then a rifle more commonly used for hunting. If you need a large magazine to bring down a buck you are doing it wrong.

Wow, you really don't know what you are talking about... do you Nehor?  AR-15's are popular because of their light weight, mid range knock down power which is perfect for medium size game, adjustable stocks, sights, rails, and these weapons are easy to customize which gun people love. They have a shorter barrel which is an advantage in close quarters and heavy cover. Larger magazines, yes. More stopping power....no.  And the 2nd A was not designed to protect hunters.  

[bluebell]

34 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

AR-15s have ammunition with more stopping power and larger magazines available then a rifle more commonly used for hunting. If you need a large magazine to bring down a buck you are doing it wrong.

Can you provide the reference for that?  I'm not doubting you, but I just can't find any information comparing AR-15 bullet damage to rifle damage. I'm only seeing it compared to handguns (I'm from Wyoming, where almost every family owns hunting rifles with high-powered scopes but not as many people own handguns).

From what I understand, most people who use AR-15 for target shooting prefer the larger magazine for that.  It doesn't have anything to do with hunting.

13 minutes ago, Duncan said:

but America is doing something on drugs, why take a don't touch my guns position? everything is else is banned, like kinder surprise eggs..........but guns is not as regulated? Remember the stone age didn't go away because they ran out of stones, they just found better ways of doing things, why can't America follow suit?

Guns are regulated in the U.S.  They are regulated on both the federal and state level.  The issue is whether or not they should be more regulated, not whether or not they should be regulated at all.

[snowflake]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

AR-15s aren't any different than other semi-automatic rifles, are they?  (I know that some people mistakenly believe that the AR in AR-15 stands for assault rifle, but it doesn't.  They aren't assault rifles).

Correct Bulebell, squeeze the trigger and one bullet comes out, squeeze again another bullet.  AR-15's rounds aren't as powerful as most rifles used for hunting bigger game as well. All fully automatic rifles are illegal but in some states you can obtain them.  

[Gray]

30 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Right.  Armed law enforcement on site did nothing.
The unarmed hero teachers gave everything.  Too bad they weren't the ones armed.  Fortunately in Utah (where there have basically been no school shootings) they are.

Arming teachers is just about the dumbest idea in a slew of astonishingly dumb ideas to do anything at all except what's proven to work.

[bsjkki]

If anyone is interested in understanding how this kid was never arrested, read  this report. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966854507744374784.html  You may not trust the source but the article is well documented and you can decide for yourself if there is any  truth to the matter. 

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, Gray said:

Arming teachers is just about the dumbest idea in a slew of astonishingly dumb ideas to do anything at all except what's proven to work.

I'm not saying that I disagree with you, but can you provide some evidence or arguments to support this assertion?

[JLHPROF]

7 minutes ago, Gray said:

Arming teachers is just about the dumbest idea in a slew of astonishingly dumb ideas to do anything at all except what's proven to work.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/can-miss-crabtree-pack-heat-these-18-states-allow-k-12-teachers-to-carry/article/2649321
Does this mean that teachers cannot carry guns on campus? Not in all cases. The Gun-Free School Zones has exceptions. A teacher can bring a gun to school “as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone.” Currently, there are at least 18 states which allow armed adults on school property with relatively minor conditions.

A 2013 NBC News investigation found:

• Alabama (which bans possessing a weapon on school grounds only if the carrier has "intent to do bodily harm")
• California (with approval of the superintendent)
• Connecticut (with approval of "school officials")
• Hawaii (no specific law)
• Idaho (with school trustees' approval)
• Iowa (with "authorization")
• Kentucky (with school board approval)
• Massachusetts (with approval of the school board or principal)
• Mississippi (with school board approval)
• Montana (with school trustees' permission)
• New Hampshire (ban applies only to pupils, not adults)
• New Jersey (with approval from the school's "governing officer")
• New York (with the school's approval)
• Oregon (with school board approval)
• Rhode Island (with a state concealed weapons permit)
• Texas (with the school's permission)
• Utah (with approval of the "responsible school administrator")
• Wyoming (as long as it's not concealed)

[longview]

16 minutes ago, Gray said:

Arming teachers is just about the dumbest idea in a slew of astonishingly dumb ideas to do anything at all except what's proven to work.

No, self-defense is NEVER dumb.  It is a Constitutional right to protect home, self, family, community and helpless young children.  Isreali school teachers have been VERY effective in thwarting attackers.  I am thankful you are NOT a superintendent or principle.  Sadly there are too many like you.

I suppose you prefer the agonizing 5, 10 or 20 minute wait for the police to show up (if you managed to call 911).  Next, you will want the British system where the homeowner is required to meekly submit to invaders.

Edited February 23, 2018 by longview

[Gray]

15 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm not saying that I disagree with you, but can you provide some evidence or arguments to support this assertion?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/22/the-real-reason-congress-banned-assault-weapons-in-1994-and-why-it-worked/?utm_term=.dfd17e6fcbf6

 

Gun massacres/deaths fell during the years we had a federal ban on assault rifles.

 

[Gray]

5 minutes ago, longview said:

No, self-defense is NEVER dumb.  It is a Constitutional right to protect home, self, family, community and helpless young children.  Isreali school teachers have been VERY effective in thwarting attackers.  I am thankful you are NOT a superintendent or principle.  Sadly there are too many like you.

I suppose you prefer the agonizing 5, 10 or 20 minute wait for the police to show up (if you managed to call 911).  Next, you will want the British system where the homeowner is required to meekly submit to invaders.

Arming teachers won't stop a bad guy with an assault rifle. It will just mean more kids dead from missed shots. And the teacher who confronts someone with an assault rifle will also almost certainly die.

Let's arm teachers with books get get military weapons off the streets.

[JLHPROF]

9 minutes ago, longview said:

No, self-defense is NEVER dumb.  It is a Constitutional right to protect home, self, family, community and helpless young children. 

Not to mention scriptural.

[Amulek]

41 minutes ago, bluebell said:

From what I understand, most people who use AR-15 for target shooting prefer the larger magazine for that.  It doesn't have anything to do with hunting.

Most people who do any amount of target shooting, regardless of what weapon they happen to be shooting, tend to prefer larger magazines.

You know...because shooting is fun. Reloading is boring. 

 

[Gray]

1 minute ago, Amulek said:

Most people who do any amount of target shooting, regardless of what weapon they happen to be shooting, tend to prefer larger magazines.

You know...because shooting is fun. Reloading is boring. 

 

I'm sure it's a lot of fun. Totally worth all the extra dead children each year?

[Duncan]

I saw a list of questions about arming teachers that should be addressed prior to implementation

such as, but not limited to

storage, are they going to have them on them at all times? a handgun vs. ?

if you want to kill kids and you know that teachers are armed would you bring more guns ?

what about teachers who are set to retire? are 65 year olds with a bad knee going to do anything against a teen with whatever

what about substitute teachers? are they going to risk their life for kids they are only teaching for a day or half a day?

what if the teacher gets upset at a kid and decides to blast him or her or all of them? 

let's not forget that arming teacher's isn't preventing a problem, it's trying to stop after after a problem is happening, teacher's are already a catch all for social problems, adding guns to it doesn't help any

Philando Castile, worked at a school, had a gun in his car and got killed for it, would that happen again?

those are the ones I remember anyways

 

 

[bluebell]

22 minutes ago, Gray said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/22/the-real-reason-congress-banned-assault-weapons-in-1994-and-why-it-worked/?utm_term=.dfd17e6fcbf6

 

Gun massacres/deaths fell during the years we had a federal ban on assault rifles.

 

I'm not looking for information on assault weapon bans.  I'm looking for information that will support your statement that arming teachers is dumb.  Can you provide that? 

Speaking to the graph, it's very interesting.  Why did the number on incidents of gun massacres increase 3 fold between 1984-1994 and 2001-2014?  If assault weapon availability is the issue driving gun violence then you would think that the incidents would be similar for those decades. 

I think this article from factcheck.org sums up the ban results pretty fairly.  (They aren't the results that each side claims they were).

 

[bluebell]

25 minutes ago, Gray said:

I'm sure it's a lot of fun. Totally worth all the extra dead children each year?

You might as well post "Please ignore everything I say" before saying this kind of stuff.  Because all it does it cause those people that you need to convince to feel justified in ignoring everything you say.

[snowflake]

27 minutes ago, Gray said:

I'm sure it's a lot of fun. Totally worth all the extra dead children each year?

You seem to really believe that..........wow! 

[snowflake]

36 minutes ago, Gray said:

Arming teachers won't stop a bad guy with an assault rifle. It will just mean more kids dead from missed shots. And the teacher who confronts someone with an assault rifle will also almost certainly die.

Let's arm teachers with books get get military weapons off the streets.

Military weapons are all illegal! You cannot own or buy a fully automatic weapon (except in very rare instances).

[Calm]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I'm not saying that I disagree with you, but can you provide some evidence or arguments to support this assertion?

I can see kids swarming a teacher and attempting to get their gun on a dare.  They mightdo it to a cop or guard. But the latter two don't have being swarmed for other reasons on a regular basis.

[bluebell]

31 minutes ago, Calm said:

I can see kids swarming a teacher and attempting to get their gun on a dare.  They mightdo it to a cop or guard. But the latter two don't have being swarmed for other reasons on a regular basis.

I can’t really picture that. But, in the case of concealed carry at least, I don’t think kids would know their teacher had a gun in the classroom. 

Making sure kids couldn’t access the gun would be important though. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by bluebell

[Duncan]

9 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I can’t really picture that. But, in the case of concealed carry at least, I don’t think kids would know their teacher had a gun in the classroom. 

Making sure kids could access the gun would be important though. 

couldn't, I think you mean

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, Duncan said:

couldn't, I think you mean

Oops!!

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

I saw a list of questions about arming teachers that should be addressed prior to implementation

such as, but not limited to

storage, are they going to have them on them at all times? a handgun vs. ?

if you want to kill kids and you know that teachers are armed would you bring more guns ?

what about teachers who are set to retire? are 65 year olds with a bad knee going to do anything against a teen with whatever

what about substitute teachers? are they going to risk their life for kids they are only teaching for a day or half a day?

what if the teacher gets upset at a kid and decides to blast him or her or all of them? 

let's not forget that arming teacher's isn't preventing a problem, it's trying to stop after after a problem is happening, teacher's are already a catch all for social problems, adding guns to it doesn't help any

Philando Castile, worked at a school, had a gun in his car and got killed for it, would that happen again?

those are the ones I remember anyways

 

 

I sat with several teachers during lunch today, and they said they wouldn't want to have to use a gun, but one of them said that we should display signs that there are teachers carrying them. Sort of like the signs people put in their yards saying it's under security survellience when it's really not. Anything to deter a possible shooter I guess. 

[Calm]

I don't mean attacking the teacher, just going up a number at a time and asking questions etc. for distraction to see if the gun can be pickpocketed.

It would be very stupid, but then so is the TidePod challenge.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Calm