rockpond Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 President Nelson spoke on Saturday (17-Feb-2018) to young adults in Las Vegas. Some of his remarks are generating a lot of social media feedback but what little is provided in the Mormon Newsroom report (linked below) doesn't really provide a lot of context. Opening this thread in the hope that when the full transcript is published, assuming it is published, someone will post it here. https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/president-nelson-las-vegas-millennials 1 Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Good stuff. I love every word of what has been posted! 3 Link to comment
kiwi57 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 It sounds like two good talks. What sort of chatter are you seeing? Link to comment
Calm Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Some don't appear to be too happy with the phrase the Trib decided to headline: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/02/19/satan-temps-us-to-love-as-we-should-not-love-lds-prophet-russell-m-nelson-warns-mormon-millennials/ add-on: some are interpreting it to say gay feelings in and of themselves are sinful as they believe they are being defined as temptations from Satan by Pres. Nelson. Edited February 20, 2018 by Calm 1 Link to comment
rockpond Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 I'm seeing people interpret the few quotes from the address in different ways. I think context is going to be important. Hoping the full transcript is published. Link to comment
JulieM Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, Calm said: Some don't appear to be too happy with the phrase the Trib decided to headline: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/02/19/satan-temps-us-to-love-as-we-should-not-love-lds-prophet-russell-m-nelson-warns-mormon-millennials/ Satan tempts people to be gay? That seems to be the interpretation of that phrase. It’s too bad he included that as I see the rest of what is quoted to be really good. I hope that’s not what he meant and people are just misunderstanding. Otherwise we’re back to the incorrect thinking that God wouldn’t create someone who is gay. It has to come from Satan. 2 Link to comment
kiwi57 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, JulieM said: Satan tempts people to be gay? No. Satan doesn't tempt anyone to be anything. Satan tempts people to do things. There is a difference, you know. Link to comment
JulieM Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, kiwi57 said: No. Satan doesn't tempt anyone to be anything. Satan tempts people to do things. There is a difference, you know. I said that “seems to be the interpretation” (by some who heard him speak or read his words). Read the comments and you’ll see that’s true. I did not say that’s what I believe, did I? Edited February 20, 2018 by JulieM 2 Link to comment
kiwi57 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 8 hours ago, JulieM said: I said that “seems to be the interpretation” (by some who heard him speak or read his words). Read the comments and you’ll see that’s true. I did not say that’s what I believe, did I? No, you said "That seems to be the interpretation of that phrase." Not "how some people interpret it," but "the interpretation," simpliciter. I'm not arguing with you about what you meant; you obviously know what you meant, and I have no reason to disbelieve you. But after saying that, then you immediately added: "It’s too bad he included that as I see the rest of what is quoted to be really good." It's too bad he included - what? Please note that for the small and dwindling band of believing Latter-day Saints in this forum, we don't have prophets and apostles to tell us what we could find out just by agreeing with the prevailing winds of society. We have prophets and apostles to keep us in the strait and narrow path. Poster removed: another insult 3 Link to comment
JulieM Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, kiwi57 said: “It’s too bad he included that as I see the rest of what is quoted to be really good." It's too bad he included - what? The phrase that is being interpreted in a negative manner (“He tempts us ....to love as we should not love.”). You can disagree, but I think it’s too bad he didn’t just leave that part off if some are having such a negative reaction to those few words since the rest of his talk that’s quoted is really good. Edited February 20, 2018 by JulieM 1 Link to comment
Popular Post rchorse Posted February 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2018 I think it's too bad that some are jumping to negative conclusions about what he meant. Satan does tempt us to love as we should not love. If that's not true, then how does adultery happen? Not everything has to be interpreted through the sole lens of homosexuality. There are lots of instances of inappropriate and sinful love with straight people. My guess is that he was referring not to mere feelings of attraction, but to the nurturing of those feelings into love unauthorized by the commandments of God. And I believe he's probably referring to all such forms of love; straight, gay, or other. 13 Link to comment
Popular Post Hamba Tuhan Posted February 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2018 35 minutes ago, kiwi57 said: Please note that for the small and dwindling band of believing Latter-day Saints in this forum, we don't have prophets and apostles to tell us what we could find out just by agreeing with the prevailing winds of society. We have prophets and apostles to keep us in the strait and narrow path. And I love them for it! Over the past few years especially, my appreciation for the prophets of God has grown by leaps that have actually surprised me. What a gift! 9 Link to comment
rpn Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Seems to me that the quote in the article is far more likely have been about all of the heterosexual behavior outside of marriage that our world is currently swamped in (and that has been responsible for much of the selfishness, abortions, marriage collapses and other family breakdown): why are people deciding it is about same gender attraction at all? 2 Link to comment
USU78 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 hours ago, kiwi57 said: No. Satan doesn't tempt anyone to be anything. Satan tempts people to do things. There is a difference, you know. Love's both a verb and a noun. 1 Link to comment
Popular Post rongo Posted February 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, rpn said: Seems to me that the quote in the article is far more likely have been about all of the heterosexual behavior outside of marriage that our world is currently swamped in (and that has been responsible for much of the selfishness, abortions, marriage collapses and other family breakdown): why are people deciding it is about same gender attraction at all? And this is much more of a problem with the audience whom he was speaking to than homosexuality is. I'm sure that he was referring to all kinds of sexual immorality. Critics already have the "dominant narrative" for President Nelson decided, and they're going to filter everything he says through that lens. If he encourages people to live "after the manner of happiness," that will automatically be construed to be a slam against gay marriage or homosexuality. Ditto with anything else he says. 8 Link to comment
CV75 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 8 hours ago, rockpond said: President Nelson spoke on Saturday (17-Feb-2018) to young adults in Las Vegas. Some of his remarks are generating a lot of social media feedback but what little is provided in the Mormon Newsroom report (linked below) doesn't really provide a lot of context. Opening this thread in the hope that when the full transcript is published, assuming it is published, someone will post it here. https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/president-nelson-las-vegas-millennials I invite you to post the full transcript when it is published, assuming it is published. Link to comment
CV75 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 7 hours ago, Calm said: Some don't appear to be too happy with the phrase the Trib decided to headline: https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/02/19/satan-temps-us-to-love-as-we-should-not-love-lds-prophet-russell-m-nelson-warns-mormon-millennials/ add-on: some are interpreting it to say gay feelings in and of themselves are sinful as they believe they are being defined as temptations from Satan by Pres. Nelson. I think the Church Newsroom article is a far better example of professional journalism. Link to comment
ALarson Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 7 hours ago, JulieM said: I said that “seems to be the interpretation” (by some who heard him speak or read his words). Read the comments and you’ll see that’s true. Yes, those comments confirm many interpreted that part of his talk to mean exactly what you state (unfortunately). I'm hoping a full transcript will come out and maybe we can see more context here. Here's the quote under discussion (from the Salt Lake Tribune): Quote Satan turns natural human appetites into desires and actions that derail the best of spiritual intentions, Nelson warned young adults who had gathered at four Las Vegas-area LDS meetinghouses for a “fireside.” “These appetites are absolutely essential for the perpetuation of life. So, what does the adversary do?” Nelson asked. “He attacks us through our appetites. He tempts us to eat things we should not eat, to drink things we should not drink, and to love as we should not love.” 1 Link to comment
Popular Post hope_for_things Posted February 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2018 9 hours ago, rockpond said: President Nelson spoke on Saturday (17-Feb-2018) to young adults in Las Vegas. Some of his remarks are generating a lot of social media feedback but what little is provided in the Mormon Newsroom report (linked below) doesn't really provide a lot of context. Opening this thread in the hope that when the full transcript is published, assuming it is published, someone will post it here. https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/president-nelson-las-vegas-millennials I'm hoping for the full transcript at some point as well, however, I think the interpretation that many are making is in harmony with other talks ideas in the soup of Mormon culture. I'm worried that this talk is a sign of a new tone from the newly appointed leaders. A more stridently antagonistic tone, a more fundamentalist approach of drawing dividing lines, of emphasizing limits to love, of creating clear boundaries to exclude and define outsiders as other. If this is a harbinger of more to come from President Nelson and the new presidency, then I fear for the health of this church, not only those who are directly damaged by these messages, but the members who feel compelled to uphold these increasingly strident ideals. This is not a gospel of peace. 6 Link to comment
Popular Post HappyJackWagon Posted February 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2018 Reminds me of the classic primary song... "Jesus said love everyone, treat them kindly too" ...except when Satan tricks you into loving someone you shouldn't. In that case, don't fall for Satan's LOVE TRAP! The problem is, Pres. Nelson has developed a reputation among some quarters for being anti-LGBTQ. You can think that is fair or not, but that is the lens through which many people will read his words, and IMO, there is some reasonable basis for that view. His part in declaring the POX to be revelation, his talk about God's love being conditional etc have caused people to view his words skeptically. They will be parsed. I think he knows that as I think he should. So whether or not he had LGBT "love" in mind when he made that statement it is reasonable to think that he did. In which case it can seem quite offensive if people are told their love is counterfeit or a deception of Satan. 10 Link to comment
Popular Post ALarson Posted February 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: Reminds me of the classic primary song... "Jesus said love everyone, treat them kindly too" ...except when Satan tricks you into loving someone you shouldn't. In that case, don't fall for Satan's LOVE TRAP! The problem is, Pres. Nelson has developed a reputation among some quarters for being anti-LGBTQ. You can think that is fair or not, but that is the lens through which many people will read his words, and IMO, there is some reasonable basis for that view. His part in declaring the POX to be revelation, his talk about God's love being conditional etc have caused people to view his words skeptically. They will be parsed. I think he knows that as I think he should. So whether or not he had LGBT "love" in mind when he made that statement it is reasonable to think that he did. In which case it can seem quite offensive if people are told their love is counterfeit or a deception of Satan. I have to agree. It's unfortunate that he also may give the impression that someone who is born gay has unnatural human appetites (with his phrasing: "Satan turns natural human appetites into desires and actions that derail the best of spiritual intentions..."). Edited February 20, 2018 by ALarson 6 Link to comment
Senator Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: So whether or not he had LGBT "love" in mind when he made that statement it is reasonable to think that he did. In which case it can seem quite offensive if people are told their love is counterfeit or a deception of Satan. I'm currently reading the Gospels in the New Testament. I am particularly struck this go around, at how many people were offended at what Jesus did and said; even of those closest to him. I even found myself, with furrowed brow, bristling at things he said. So yeah, it's going to happen. It aught to happen as darkness tries to comprehend light. I'm continually learning, that, of the things we encounter in life that make us uncomfortable, to not automatically default to the conclusion that the thing must be necessarily wrong or faulty. It's still a work in progress. 2 Link to comment
Popular Post The Nehor Posted February 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2018 52 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: Reminds me of the classic primary song... "Jesus said love everyone, treat them kindly too" ...except when Satan tricks you into loving someone you shouldn't. In that case, don't fall for Satan's LOVE TRAP! The problem is, Pres. Nelson has developed a reputation among some quarters for being anti-LGBTQ. You can think that is fair or not, but that is the lens through which many people will read his words, and IMO, there is some reasonable basis for that view. His part in declaring the POX to be revelation, his talk about God's love being conditional etc have caused people to view his words skeptically. They will be parsed. I think he knows that as I think he should. So whether or not he had LGBT "love" in mind when he made that statement it is reasonable to think that he did. In which case it can seem quite offensive if people are told their love is counterfeit or a deception of Satan. Are you also arguing the Primary song endorsed infidelity and swinging if we are to love everyone? 5 Link to comment
Gray Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 31 minutes ago, Senator said: I'm currently reading the Gospels in the New Testament. I am particularly struck this go around, at how many people were offended at what Jesus did and said; even of those closest to him. I even found myself, with furrowed brow, bristling at things he said. So yeah, it's going to happen. It aught to happen as darkness tries to comprehend light. I'm continually learning, that, of the things we encounter in life that make us uncomfortable, to not automatically default to the conclusion that the thing must be necessarily wrong or faulty. It's still a work in progress. On the other hand, I can think of a half dozen entertainers who are famous for being offensive. I don't think being offended by something is a sign that one is hearing the gospel truth. Not that I think this is your position, just saying, one can be offended by both true and false statements. Link to comment
Popular Post Daniel2 Posted February 20, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) I saw several FB posts about this on my social media feed this morning, and after reading more in context, I'm surprised anyone would think there's anything new or surprising in in what President Nelson is saying. It doesn't strike me as Elder Nelson singling out or criticizing same-sex relationships in a greater manner or moreso than any other sexual behaviors or relationships that the Church considers to be inappropriate. It seems to me that if you're a devout straight LDS young adult, you can (and most likely would) interpret Nelson's words as applying entirely to your straight predilections, and if you're a devout gay LDS young adult, you can (and mostly likely would) interpret Nelson's words as applying entirely to your gay predilections. It's a shame that those that are over blowing this are focusing ONLY on the "love" part of Nelson's words. I think it's also important that he spoke of food consumption and overeating. While LDS culture/belief/practice does a great job emphasizing abstaining from alcohol and all forms of premarital sex, I think many Latter-day Saints (and I include myself as a former one in that designation) don't pay enough attention (or haven't historically) to the health advice about gluttony, abstaining from overeating, or reducing the consumption of meat. Overall, from my perspective, any attempt to imply this talk is about any sort of "condemnation/indictment of gays and/or same-sex relationships" seems like a great over-exaggeration/distortion of Nelson's words. While some critics may see value in trying to read mal-intent into every utterance from the new prophet's words, I don't find that helpful at all, and think it's best to avoid misrepresenting what's been said and focus instead on actual issues. Edited February 20, 2018 by Daniel2 15 Link to comment
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