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Meerkat

Once saved always saved?

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1 hour ago, FormerLDS said:

Correct!  The eternal life that Jesus Christ offers means you know Him and He knows you - an utterly irreversible process!

Those who have eternal life are those who did the will of the Father - they believed upon the Son and received His free gift of life within their souls.

Once saved (eternal life received) always saved (eternal life kept forever).

Once someone receives eternal life, that's true, it's irreversible.  But, no one receives eternal life in this life.  They only receive the promise of it if they continue to believe and follow Christ for the remainder of their days.  While mortal, someone can definitely lose their promise of salvation, just like the scriptures say.

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2 hours ago, FormerLDS said:

I hear you, but I really don't think you comprehend the fact that LDS theology teaches that no one can have eternal life during mortality.

The Jesus Christ of the CoJCoLDS can only offer the promise of eternal life during mortality.  

Read the passage!  "having promise of the life that now is". 

When is "now"?

Fair enough.  As in Adam, all die.  So in Christ shall all be made alive.  Then the judgment.  In the LDS view, most all will go to a kingdom of glory.  Those who have lived for it will live where God lives.  Those who choose not to will end up in a kingdom more to their liking, in my opinion.  Christians who have chosen not to live according to their faith will still dwell in a kingdom of glory probably more glorious than they expect.  So I don't see a problem with your view or mine.  We both get what we deserve and expect.  

Our good neighbor has a different view.  He believes if a good person never confessed Christ as Savior, he will be consigned to hell, as in eternal hell fire.  That is out of character for the God I worship.  How about you? My view is along the lines of this poem:

Abou Ben Adhem

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!) 
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace, 
And saw, within the moonlight in his room, 
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom, 
An angel writing in a book of gold:— 
Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold, 
And to the presence in the room he said, 
"What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head, 
And with a look made of all sweet accord, 
Answered, "The names of those who love the Lord." 
"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so," 
Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low, 
But cheerly still; and said, "I pray thee, then, 
Write me as one that loves his fellow men." 
 
The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night 
It came again with a great wakening light, 
And showed the names whom love of God had blest, 
And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest. 

I subscribe to CS Lewis' opinion that good people who follow their conscience (light of Christ) often worship God unaware and will be rewarded accordingly.

You aren't of the mind that, unless a person sees salvation as you do, they are going to hell, are you?  You leave the judging to the Savior, right?

Edited by Meerkat

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On 2/15/2018 at 11:34 AM, FormerLDS said:

For anyone willing to see it, the disparity between the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Bible and LDS theology are nothing less than mind-blowing.  I mean, how did I ever miss it for so long? 

For example, compare LDS "Eternal Life" (single most important doctrine in LDS theology) with what Jesus Christ plainly said:

LDS Eternal Life (click for link to citation):

Word of Jesus Christ:

“Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:54  

Notice any doctrinal disparity?

I recommend Elder Oaks talk on salvation.  https://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/05/have-you-been-saved?lang=eng

He explains a few different perspectives.  In the talk he refers to salvation for the here and now.  

"I have suggested that the short answer to the question of whether a faithful member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been saved or born again must be a fervent “yes.” Our covenant relationship with our Savior puts us in that “saved” or “born again” condition meant by those who ask this question. Some modern prophets have also used “salvation” or “saved” in that same present sense. President Brigham Young declared:

“It is present salvation and the present influence of the Holy Ghost that we need every day to keep us on saving ground. …

“I want present salvation. … Life is for us, and it is for us to receive it today, and not wait for the Millennium. Let us take a course to be saved today” (Discourses of Brigham Young, sel. John A. Widtsoe [1954], 15–16). President David O. McKay spoke of the revealed gospel of Jesus Christ in that same present sense of “salvation here—here and now” (Gospel Ideals [1953], 6).
 

On eternal life a few scriptures clarify, 

Romans 2:7

NIV
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
ESV
to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;

1 John 5
11 And this is the testimony: God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.  12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.   
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
 

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14 hours ago, FormerLDS said:

If anything this passage supports the fact that when we received the gift of eternal life it abides within us forever (v.27).  Once saved always saved.

He abides within me and I in Him - forever.  This is eternal life.

    FormerLDS  [ From Former Fundamentalist Independent Baptist ] Don't forget or ignore the word "if" in verse 24 which is a conditional word, no once saved always saved.    

The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine

Washing My Garment In His Blood

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

Anakin7 

LDS Sentinel Son Of Thunder Kryptonian Warrior

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14 hours ago, FormerLDS said:

If anything this passage supports the fact that when we received the gift of eternal life it abides within us forever (v.27).  Once saved always saved.

He abides within me and I in Him - forever.  This is eternal life.

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/destiny.htm    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/whichgospel.htm  http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/believing.htm 

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/obey.htm        http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/kingdom.htm    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/christian.htm 

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/everyNTbook.htm    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/tragedies.htm    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/initial.htm 

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/futuresins.htm    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/james51920.htm    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/hebrews.htm 

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/pairsoftruth.htm    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/sixtimes.htm    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/jesus-es.htm 

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/anothergospel.htm    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/misconceptions.htm  http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/ues.htm 

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/question.htm      http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/assure.htm    http://www.evangelicaloutreacg.org/workssalvation.htm 

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/eternallife.htm    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/john1028.htm  http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/forsake.htm 

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/separate.htm    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/john637.htm    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/wayne.htm 

    A few of the above links may not be currently working but many do. The above list should cover the OSAS issue. Sorry so long and many links I just wanted to cover a # of OSAS Arguments. May True Grace be accepted, accessed, activated, grabbed hold of, obtained,received, held on to by True Faith - pistis in greek = allegiance, commitment,confidence, devotion,discipleship,faithfulness,fidelity,loyalty,obedience,trust to the person and work of Christ Jesus which all of the aforementioned definitions are covenant words. 

The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine

Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian, Warrior

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On 2/16/2018 at 10:03 PM, Meerkat said:

1 John 2:24-26.  "24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
            25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life."

Per Anakin 7's scripture quotation, IF that which ye have heard remains in you, THEN ye shall continue in the Son, and in the Father, having eternal life.

On 2/14/2018 at 1:43 PM, Meerkat said:

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins..."

Salvation is conditional and may be lost. 

On 2/15/2018 at 8:34 AM, FormerLDS said:

Word of Jesus Christ:

“Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:54  

Notice any doctrinal disparity?

Any disparity here is due to presenting this passage alone, without considering the other scriptures, including the Word of Jesus in Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

17 hours ago, FormerLDS said:

The eternal life that Jesus Christ offers means you know Him and He knows you - an utterly irreversible process!

Except when a person chooses, unrepentant, to return his sins like a dog wallowing in the mire.  An apt metaphor is Lot's wife, turning back to Sodom, having just been led out by the angel.

The only way a person can accept the osas position is to ignore the many significant scriptures against it.

Even so, LDS doctrine allows that such persons, except Perdition, may be redeemed in a kingdom of glory.  So the LDS doctrine of three degrees of glory is the only doctrine that allows for the osas position to have any credence. 

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