Active on the outside, inactive on the inside

[10THAmendment]

Hey all,

Not sure what my goal is for this post, just kind of need to pour my heart out somewhere. I am a RM of 5 years. Had a burning testimony before, during, and for a couple years after my mission. However, one day a flip just kind of switched inside of me. Things started to bother me (A LOT) about the Church. I was recently married and after just a couple short months my testimony was mostly erased. Thinking back I think church history is what messed me up the most. When I read the essays on the LDS website which state that a lot of the anti stuff I heard growing up is factually accurate I began questioning everything. Things that didn't bother me before all of the sudden did. For example, the temple ceremony being a carbon copy of Masonic rituals, Oliver Cowdery's pastor writing a book very similar to the BOM 4 years before the BOM was published, the multiple and repeated false doctrines preached by Brigham Young, prophets of God openly discriminating against black people, etc. These things did not bother me at all, I relied on feelings alone..I knew the church was true. But when I found out that the Church was now openly admitting Joseph Smith married previously married women and sent men on missions to take their wives and that his translation of the funerary scrolls could not have been more off that fire in my heart was put out after considering all the other anti stuff I mentioned. Also, the Church becoming increasingly political and telling me to vote in ways I fundamentally disagree with every election really has put me off.

 

I have a great, faithful wife who makes sure we make it to church every week. I go but I just feel that I am only physically there. I want to have the burning testimony again but I don't know if that is possible at this point. I am pretty sure it isn't. I want to believe it (and I still may fundamentally), I want my children to have the Gospel in their lives, I want them to have a father who is strong in the church, priesthood and Gospel but I have taken such a spiritual beating for 2 full years. All I can see are my doubts and have developed a habit of questioning every single thing in the church.  I feel I have a good heart, I definitely believe in God and nothing can ever change that, the Gospel has just died inside me and it is heartbreaking.

 

Thanks for reading. Again, just had to share my feelings somewhere.

 

[Bobbieaware]

9 hours ago, 10THAmendment said:

Hey all,

Not sure what my goal is for this post, just kind of need to pour my heart out somewhere. I am a RM of 5 years. Had a burning testimony before, during, and for a couple years after my mission. However, one day a flip just kind of switched inside of me. Things started to bother me (A LOT) about the Church. I was recently married and after just a couple short months my testimony was mostly erased. Thinking back I think church history is what messed me up the most. When I read the essays on the LDS website which state that a lot of the anti stuff I heard growing up is factually accurate I began questioning everything. Things that didn't bother me before all of the sudden did. For example, the temple ceremony being a carbon copy of Masonic rituals, Oliver Cowdery's pastor writing a book very similar to the BOM 4 years before the BOM was published, the multiple and repeated false doctrines preached by Brigham Young, prophets of God openly discriminating against black people, etc. These things did not bother me at all, I relied on feelings alone..I knew the church was true. But when I found out that the Church was now openly admitting Joseph Smith married previously married women and sent men on missions to take their wives and that his translation of the funerary scrolls could not have been more off that fire in my heart was put out after considering all the other anti stuff I mentioned. Also, the Church becoming increasingly political and telling me to vote in ways I fundamentally disagree with every election really has put me off.

 

I have a great, faithful wife who makes sure we make it to church every week. I go but I just feel that I am only physically there. I want to have the burning testimony again but I don't know if that is possible at this point. I am pretty sure it isn't. I want to believe it (and I still may fundamentally), I want my children to have the Gospel in their lives, I want them to have a father who is strong in the church, priesthood and Gospel but I have taken such a spiritual beating for 2 full years. All I can see are my doubts and have developed a habit of questioning every single thing in the church.  I feel I have a good heart, I definitely believe in God and nothing can ever change that, the Gospel has just died inside me and it is heartbreaking.

 

Thanks for reading. Again, just had to share my feelings somewhere.

 

Welcome to the board but sorry to learn of your unhappy situation. Do you still believe in God the Father and Jesus Christ?

[Jeanne]

Welcome..I hear you and understand.  You will find many friends here and hopefully you will find a path that will help you. 

[Jane_Doe]

11 hours ago, 10THAmendment said:

These things did not bother me at all, I relied on feelings alone..I knew the church was true. But when I found out that the Church was now openly admitting Joseph Smith married previously married women and sent men on missions to take their wives and that his translation of the funerary scrolls could not have been more off that fire in my heart was put out after considering all the other anti stuff I mentioned. Also, the Church becoming increasingly political and telling me to vote in ways I fundamentally disagree with every election really has put me off.

I have a great, faithful wife who makes sure we make it to church every week. I go but I just feel that I am only physically there. I want to have the burning testimony again but I don't know if that is possible at this point. I am pretty sure it isn't. I want to believe it (and I still may fundamentally), I want my children to have the Gospel in their lives, I want them to have a father who is strong in the church, priesthood and Gospel but I have taken such a spiritual beating for 2 full years. All I can see are my doubts and have developed a habit of questioning every single thing in the church.  I feel I have a good heart, I definitely believe in God and nothing can ever change that, the Gospel has just died inside me and it is heartbreaking.

Thanks for reading. Again, just had to share my feelings somewhere.

 

The world is full of great men doing horrible things, and horrible men doing great things.  Truth is, we are all sinners and adult life is not a child's fairy tail where the good guys always do everything perfectly and the bad guys always do 100% bad stuff.    You have now moved past the age of fairy tails.  I remember how rude of an awakening that was for me- particularly reading about nude drunk Noah cursing his sons.  They didn't tell me THAT story in Primary.  But that doesn't mean Noah wasn't a man of God- it means he was a man of God.   Men make mistakes.   Noah's mistakes doesn't mean he wasn't a prophet of God, or that God doesn't exist.  It just means he wasn't a perfect fairy tail character. 

It is entirely possible to believe in Christ, His Gospel, and His Church in a non-fairy tail world.  An adult believer is strong, unafraid, just, and forgiving of other people's mistakes, like Christ Himself.   An adult testimony is not just founded on emotion, but founded on Christ Himself.  See how Christ has impacted your life for yourself.  Listen to how Christ speaks through scriptures and prayers.  Start with that very basic and build up.  

Things no to do:

-Again, an adult testimony is not just founded on emotion.  That means any emotion (including fear.cynicism) does not override it.  You need to look/study/pray at things critically, not just letting any emotion override it.

-Again, life is not a fairy tale.  "Anti" Mormon stuff wants life to be a child's fairy tale: to have all the bad guys (the Mormons) always do bad stuff, and they will spin half-truths all day long to paint such a fair tale.  Don't believe it.

-There is a difference between being anti and being factual.  You can acknowledge facts without being anti (anti involves the fairy tale spinning)

 

 

Things to do:

-You want to be active on the inside?  Then get up and do something!  Read your scriptures, pray, examine, study!  Note: I'm not saying blindly believe fairy tales.  Rather start moving and building that adult testimony you want.  

[bsjkki]

This is a  good place to be! It is hard to go from a "trust everything" to a  "trust nothing"  point of view when it comes to the church. It may take a few years or decades, but keep going to church, keep researching, study everything and you may come to have a testimony based on more solid footing then you did before. It helped me to focus on Christ and read the New Testament. It helped me see the things that really matter versus those things that did not. 

1 hour ago, Bobbieaware said:

Welcome to the board but sorry to learn of your unhappy situation. Do you still believe in God the Father and Jesus Christ?

I found in a faith crisis, going back to the very fundamentals helps. This is a good question. This is where to start.

[rpn]

Did you have a burning witness of church history, or something else?   If I were in your spot, I would focus on getting to know and love Jesus Christ and becoming like Him.   That is ultimately your destination.  The Church is merely a vessel to get you there, and to provide authority for ordinances.  If you never reconcile what you now think you know about history, or if you at some point do, nether will ultimately matter because this life is about service, gratitude, being kind, seeking light.

(I had two ancestors (different families) who each separately)  were in strong positions to know Joseph Smith intimately and to hear all the gossip of the community and one of whom had personal stewardship over Joseph Smith during the Nauvoo time period ---- both of whom, with significant personal hardship, followed Joseph Smith and then BY to the west.   I don't see that I, from the limited viewpoint of 170 + years later, should suggest I know more about their closeness to God or their choices than did my ancestors so that abandoning belief that they were God's prophets is reasonable.)

I think that having lay leadership is the genius system that God gave us so that we all have the opportunity to understand that figuring out God's will in a calling and leading as He would like us to, is not always easy, even when we are diligently trying to do it.  Most of us have our own experiences with learning after the fact that something we did or asked others to do was absolutely not what God wanted, even though at the time we did it we had what we thought was confirmation it was.    It is easy to see that even a prophet's personal best is not infallible.  Even if it turns out that all of the critical or unseemly things of leaders is fully accurate and completely told in history we now know, that doesn't mean that  God cannot have used them in His service.

So my advice is to quit spending energy on what you think you've lost, and focus completely on living a fully Christian life and becoming the saint your Heavenly Parents, Savior and you all planned for you.

Edited January 20, 2018 by rpn

[Robert F. Smith]

12 hours ago, 10THAmendment said:

................. Thinking back I think church history is what messed me up the most. When I read the essays on the LDS website which state that a lot of the anti stuff I heard growing up is factually accurate I began questioning everything. .....................................the temple ceremony being a carbon copy of Masonic rituals, Oliver Cowdery's pastor writing a book very similar to the BOM 4 years before the BOM was published, .......................... Joseph Smith married previously married women and sent men on missions to take their wives and that his translation of the funerary scrolls could not have been more off ......................................... Also, the Church becoming increasingly political and telling me to vote in ways I fundamentally disagree with every election ............

I guess the primary problems for you should be:

1.  that the LDS temple ritual is not a carbon copy of Masonic rites;

2.  that Cowdery lived in the same town as the author of the 1823 View of the Hebrews, 7 years before publication of the BofM -- which is not similar to View of the Hebrews, and the author was not Oliver's pastor;

3.  although it is possible, we know of no case in which Joseph fathered any children (except by Emma) during all these plural sealings (despite DNA tests);

4.  the BofAbraham is remarkably accurate in its claims as a matter of standard Egyptology;

5.  and the LDS Church has not been telling you whom to vote for and has not been increasingly political.

Your problem is not that you have read the LDS Gospel Topics (which contain none of that folderol), but that you have bought into anti-Mormon lies with reckless abandon.

12 hours ago, 10THAmendment said:

...................................... All I can see are my doubts and have developed a habit of questioning every single thing in the church.  I feel I have a good heart, I definitely believe in God and nothing can ever change that, the Gospel has just died inside me and it is heartbreaking.................

If the fire of the Gospel of Jesus Christ (the powerful stuff He taught in the New Testament) has died inside you, a cessation of your belief in God cannot be far behind.  Once all that has been abandoned, your good heart too will turn on you, and you will find it impossible to live as a double-minded man.  You will become less active, and your wife will wonder whom she married.  At some point, you will no longer recognize yourself.  If you have children in the future, they will wonder what's wrong with Daddy.

[Jane_Doe]

I have noticed something else about anti-Mormon stuff: they will do EVERYTHING to avoid actually talking about Christ.  Talk about the failings of man, or how they fail to understand something-- those topics they'll talk about all day long, just trying to dump a pile of clutter on you.  But if you say "hey, can we talk about Christ", they immediately respond with something to the list "and I think this man screwed up this way..."   Never wanting to talk about the simplicity of Christ.  

[Storm Rider]

13 hours ago, 10THAmendment said:

Hey all,

Not sure what my goal is for this post, just kind of need to pour my heart out somewhere. I am a RM of 5 years. Had a burning testimony before, during, and for a couple years after my mission. However, one day a flip just kind of switched inside of me. Things started to bother me (A LOT) about the Church. I was recently married and after just a couple short months my testimony was mostly erased. Thinking back I think church history is what messed me up the most. When I read the essays on the LDS website which state that a lot of the anti stuff I heard growing up is factually accurate I began questioning everything. Things that didn't bother me before all of the sudden did. For example, the temple ceremony being a carbon copy of Masonic rituals, Oliver Cowdery's pastor writing a book very similar to the BOM 4 years before the BOM was published, the multiple and repeated false doctrines preached by Brigham Young, prophets of God openly discriminating against black people, etc. These things did not bother me at all, I relied on feelings alone..I knew the church was true. But when I found out that the Church was now openly admitting Joseph Smith married previously married women and sent men on missions to take their wives and that his translation of the funerary scrolls could not have been more off that fire in my heart was put out after considering all the other anti stuff I mentioned. Also, the Church becoming increasingly political and telling me to vote in ways I fundamentally disagree with every election really has put me off.

I have a great, faithful wife who makes sure we make it to church every week. I go but I just feel that I am only physically there. I want to have the burning testimony again but I don't know if that is possible at this point. I am pretty sure it isn't. I want to believe it (and I still may fundamentally), I want my children to have the Gospel in their lives, I want them to have a father who is strong in the church, priesthood and Gospel but I have taken such a spiritual beating for 2 full years. All I can see are my doubts and have developed a habit of questioning every single thing in the church.  I feel I have a good heart, I definitely believe in God and nothing can ever change that, the Gospel has just died inside me and it is heartbreaking.

Thanks for reading. Again, just had to share my feelings somewhere.

Welcome to the Board and thank you for sharing your personal feelings and trials.  Honestly, you are just human and you are dealing with living a life of faith.  These are serious matters, but they are not unique.

I would respond similar to Robert F. Smith's comments above.  Briefly, your understanding of history is inaccurate and they have only helped in distorting your image of Joseph, Brigham and the Restoration.  I would also echo the several comments that focus on being a true disciple of Jesus Christ.  The Church is not our goal or objective for this life, but it is the vehicle that teaches truths and performs ordinances in a more direct way and with authority and power not found in any other church.  

It would not be hard to argue each of your points - being a skeptic at heart they are not new to me and I have dealt with them myself - but the truth is that the answers I could give or any other will not soften your heart to the God and his desires for you as father, husband, brother, son, and as a child of God.  This is between you and your Father in Heaven.  Stop, take a breath, and start at the beginning as others have said.  Focus solely on being a true disciple of Jesus Christ in word and deed.  The history questions will be answered in time because you will be led by the Spirit to answers that make the questions fade away.  Stop expending energy in destroying things and begin to focus on fulfilling God's desires for you and your family. 

May his Peace fill your heart and home.

[Waylon]

15 hours ago, 10THAmendment said:

Hey all,

Not sure what my goal is for this post, just kind of need to pour my heart out somewhere. I am a RM of 5 years. Had a burning testimony before, during, and for a couple years after my mission. However, one day a flip just kind of switched inside of me. Things started to bother me (A LOT) about the Church. I was recently married and after just a couple short months my testimony was mostly erased. Thinking back I think church history is what messed me up the most. When I read the essays on the LDS website which state that a lot of the anti stuff I heard growing up is factually accurate I began questioning everything. Things that didn't bother me before all of the sudden did. For example, the temple ceremony being a carbon copy of Masonic rituals, Oliver Cowdery's pastor writing a book very similar to the BOM 4 years before the BOM was published, the multiple and repeated false doctrines preached by Brigham Young, prophets of God openly discriminating against black people, etc. These things did not bother me at all, I relied on feelings alone..I knew the church was true. But when I found out that the Church was now openly admitting Joseph Smith married previously married women and sent men on missions to take their wives and that his translation of the funerary scrolls could not have been more off that fire in my heart was put out after considering all the other anti stuff I mentioned. Also, the Church becoming increasingly political and telling me to vote in ways I fundamentally disagree with every election really has put me off.

 

I have a great, faithful wife who makes sure we make it to church every week. I go but I just feel that I am only physically there. I want to have the burning testimony again but I don't know if that is possible at this point. I am pretty sure it isn't. I want to believe it (and I still may fundamentally), I want my children to have the Gospel in their lives, I want them to have a father who is strong in the church, priesthood and Gospel but I have taken such a spiritual beating for 2 full years. All I can see are my doubts and have developed a habit of questioning every single thing in the church.  I feel I have a good heart, I definitely believe in God and nothing can ever change that, the Gospel has just died inside me and it is heartbreaking.

 

Thanks for reading. Again, just had to share my feelings somewhere.

 

I was in your shoes back 10-15 years ago.  I did NOT have a good experience as a missionary (really, really bad personality conflict with my mission president, culminating in a screaming fight on my last transfer) and I just wanted to come home from my mission and quit, maybe become a Southern Baptist.  

And yet, here I am, all these years later, still active and faithful.  How did I do it?

Well, I started with many of your same doubts.  I looked for answers - from LDS sources.  I found www.jefflindsay.com to be particularly helpful, along with fairlds.org.  I researched my doubts one by one and thought about them for a long period of time.

I then researched what other religions taught.  I already considered atheism, and decided it was an absurd idea (no offense to any atheists out there).  I read the works of the early Church fathers, as well as the excellent book "Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up" by David Bercot and "A Concise History of the Catholic Church" by Thomas Bokenkotter.  These books boosted my faith and made me realize that the first Christian Church really was Mormonism!

I also read the New Testament back and forth, multiple times.  I marked it up and considered it, and from that I found that the Church's doctrines match what is taught in the New Testament closer than any other version of Christianity.

On the side, I was also studying Islam.  I decided, over time, that the Church was more true than Islam.

I also studied proof that the Book of Mormon is truly what it purports to be - a divine history of an ancient civilization in America.  There are many, many things that just don't fit with the Book of Mormon being written by a conman - chiasmus, wordprint studies (showing the Book of Mormon was written by multiple people, none of whom are Joseph Smith, by stylistic origins), hebraisms (hebrew linguistics in the Book of Mormon), its accurate description of Lehi's journey across Arabia, its complex doctrinal themes, its internal consistency, etc., and I realized that there is something up with the Book of Mormon.  There is just too much going on with the Book for it to have been fabricated by Joseph Smith.  Either God himself or the Devil was involved with the creation of the Book of Mormon, but it wasn't Joseph Smith alone.  (and if it was the Devil, why does it do such a good job of testifying as to Christ, convincing men to turn to God in prayer?)

After all of this study, which took a couple of years and plenty of shelving doubts, I came to a point where I realized the Church was true.  I had said that on my mission, and at the time I thought I meant it when I said the Church was true, but I did not have the testimony I have now back then.  By working through my doubts, I found for myself and truly for myself the Church is true, and I rebounded from a real faith crisis to a point far higher than I had ever been before.

As for your specific doubts, let me give you what I think about them: 

1.  Temple being a carbon copy of Masonry - I think you have this backwards.  The masonry ceremony has its roots in the ceremonies of the Temple of Solomon.  OF COURSE there are similarities - Masonry is a copy of the temple ceremony, not vice versa.

2.  View of the Hebrews - haven't studied this one in depth, because I think it is kind of far fetched to begin with.  It certainly doesn't explain the linguistic evidence for the truth of the Book of Mormon - chiasmus, hebraisms, and wordprint studies showing the Book of Mormon was written by multiple authors.

3.  False doctrines by Brigham Young - I investigated some of these (e.g., Adam-God), and I don't think Brigham was wrong.  I think Brigham has been misunderstood, and what he was saying, when read in context, is simply not that controversial.

4.  Prophets and black people - I think the priesthood ban was inspired, and I think that, had Brigham Young been racist, he would have just banned black people from the Church rather than saying they can get baptized but cannot hold the priesthood yet, while promising that someday they would have it all.  This half-heartedness is not how racists act.  I get the sense, in the actions of Brigham and virtually every prophet since, that none of them wanted to have the priesthood ban but were reluctantly acting because they were commanded by the Lord for reasons known only to Him.

5.  Joseph Smith being sealed to previously married women - this is deep doctrine, and I can't really type out a response here because the circumstances were different for various people.  I have read all of the accounts, and I find no evidence that Joseph Smith was acting with impropriety.  The men mentioned seem to agree - several of them embraced polygamy wholeheartedly and I know at least one was an apostle who died faithful in the Church.  Another loved Joseph so much that he was a pallbearer at Joseph's funeral - hardly the case of a man whose wife was "stolen" by Joseph.  Fairlds.org has some very good answers for this issue.  

6.  Translation of the funerary scrolls - we have very, very little of the scrolls that were used in making the Pearl of Great Price (most were lost).  As far as the facsimiles being "wrongful" interpretations of hieroglyphs, my personal theory is that Joseph's interpretation was the original meaning, and they were "repurposed" by later Pagan religions in Egypt (similar to how the swatstika, a symbol of hope and good luck in Eastern religions, was repurposed as a symbol of white supremacy by the Nazis).

So there you have it - I am living proof it is possible to rebound from catastrophic testimony failure, but it takes some work, critical thinking, willingness to shelve doubts until the answers become apparent, faith, and humility.  And, despite my own sometimes difficult relationship with the Church in the past, I have come to know that the Church is true, Joseph Smith was a true Prophet, and the Book of Mormon is exactly what it purports to be - the word of God and a sacred record of an ancient civilization.

[The Nehor]

14 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I guess the primary problems for you should be:

1.  that the LDS temple ritual is not a carbon copy of Masonic rites;

2.  that Cowdery lived in the same town as the author of the 1823 View of the Hebrews, 7 years before publication of the BofM -- which is not similar to View of the Hebrews, and the author was not Oliver's pastor;

3.  although it is possible, we know of no case in which Joseph fathered any children (except by Emma) during all these plural sealings (despite DNA tests);

4.  the BofAbraham is remarkably accurate in its claims as a matter of standard Egyptology;

5.  and the LDS Church has not been telling you whom to vote for and has not been increasingly political.

Your problem is not that you have read the LDS Gospel Topics (which contain none of that folderol), but that you have bought into anti-Mormon lies with reckless abandon.

If the fire of the Gospel of Jesus Christ (the powerful stuff He taught in the New Testament) has died inside you, a cessation of your belief in God cannot be far behind.  Once all that has been abandoned, your good heart too will turn on you, and you will find it impossible to live as a double-minded man.  You will become less active, and your wife will wonder whom she married.  At some point, you will no longer recognize yourself.  If you have children in the future, they will wonder what's wrong with Daddy.

While I do not agree entirely with 4 (but do to a degree) the rest are accurate. One thing you need to understand is that these people LIE. That someone printed it or put it on the internet or put a source next to it does not mean it is to be trusted. I know LDS masons and the similarities are superficial. The View of the Hebrews is not like the Book of Mormon. At best you can argue that it is a source. Joseph practiced plural marriage. How it worked we only know some of. The Church got politically invested in one issue, lost, and moved on. If anyone is telling you the Church is endorsing candidates or that you have to vote for someone they are dead wrong.

It is okay to be skeptical to some degree but remember to be equally skeptical about skepticism.

Go back to that first love you remember. Read the Book of Mormon again. Pray for that connection you had before. In my experience crying out my struggles in prayer helps a lot. Try to go out with the missionaries and maybe help teach again. That can help me find gospel fire again. Good luck.

Edited January 21, 2018 by The Nehor

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

............................ I know LDS masons and the differences are superficial. .......................................

 

5 hours ago, Waylon said:

.........................................

1.  Temple being a carbon copy of Masonry - I think you have this backwards.  The masonry ceremony has its roots in the ceremonies of the Temple of Solomon.  OF COURSE there are similarities - Masonry is a copy of the temple ceremony, not vice versa..........................................

The problem with "a carbon copy" is that it is identical.  However, the differences are far more extensive than "superficial."  For one thing, the endowment ceremony itself is taken very heavily directly from Scripture (the Creation and Garden stories in Genesis and the Book of Moses), and we have discussed many times on this board the antique parallels of washing, anointing, clothing, and naming with the same actions in Hindu puja, in royal coronations (including Elizabeth II) and in the Bible.  The style of robe and the oaths and covenants entered into are even closer at the annual Islamic Hajj in Mecca.

The late Professor Mervin B. Hogan of the Univ of Utah wrote extensively on Mormon temple rites as compared to the Masonic rites, since he had intimate knowledge of both, and he concluded that they are not identical.  That does not mean that there are not similarities:  See especially Michael Homer, “‘Similarity of Priesthood in Masonry: The Relationship Between Freemasonry and Mormonism,” Dialogue, 27/3 (Fall 1994), 1-113, online at https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V27N03_15.pdf .

 

 

[Garden Girl]

Hello 10th Amendment...  welcome... I think you'll like it here.  You'll soon discover which posters are faithful, which are critics, which are anti...etc.

You've received some very good responses and encouragement here... So let me (as someone who became inactive at age 20 and did not reactivate again until age 55) be encouraging... the difference between us is that I did not lose my testimony or have a faith crisis... I married a wonderful non-LDS man, and as often happens with one-member couples, I slipped into inactivity... I pushed my testimony to the back of my mind and heart... but during those inactive years the Spirit would tug at me from time to time and I would feel the need to return to Church (I still prayed, read my scriptures)... it would be many years until I would heed the Spirit... finally I could no longer push it aside and I reactivated, starting at square one all over again... reading, studying, pondering, praying... and my testimony came roaring to the forefront, stronger than ever.  I began posting on this board in 2005 and have been here ever since... a strong, faithful, Latter Day Saint woman.

I'd like to share with you an experience I had... (and here I apologize to the other posters as I've told it a couple times, but I want to share it with you, and I still reflect on it from time to time when needed).  It was in 2009, approaching Oct gen conference (has it been 9 years already?!!).  There was a discussion here on the Board (I can't even remember the topic now) and numerous critics chimed in and made comments.  It was a lively discussion, and while it didn't actually shake my testimony it did give me pause and I felt an uneasiness(?)... this feeling stayed with me for about a week.  Finally it was Gen Conf and I was settling into my big wingback chair, comfortable in my jammies as the Saturday morning session was beginning... the Choir was singing... so beautiful... nothing was in my mind except the beauty of the music... suddenly in my mind and heart I heard a voice as clear as if someone was standing right beside me.... "Do not be afraid... the Gospel is correct... Stay faithful... Stay true."   Then I felt a tremendous peace flow through me.  Tears came to my eyes, and I breathed a prayer of gratitude to a loving Heavenly Father.  

Here it is 2018, and as I participate on the board these years there have been several occasions I've brought that experience to mind... so I encourage you to start again at square one...

from the beautiful central Oregon coast... GG

 

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 

The problem with "a carbon copy" is that it is identical.  However, the differences are far more extensive than "superficial."  For one thing, the endowment ceremony itself is taken very heavily directly from Scripture (the Creation and Garden stories in Genesis and the Book of Moses), and we have discussed many times on this board the antique parallels of washing, anointing, clothing, and naming with the same actions in Hindu puja, in royal coronations (including Elizabeth II) and in the Bible.  The style of robe and the oaths and covenants entered into are even closer at the annual Islamic Hajj in Mecca.

The late Professor Mervin B. Hogan of the Univ of Utah wrote extensively on Mormon temple rites as compared to the Masonic rites, since he had intimate knowledge of both, and he concluded that they are not identical.  That does not mean that there are not similarities:  See especially Michael Homer, “‘Similarity of Priesthood in Masonry: The Relationship Between Freemasonry and Mormonism,” Dialogue, 27/3 (Fall 1994), 1-113, online at https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V27N03_15.pdf .

 

 

I mistyped. I meant to say the similarities are superficial. I fixed it in the post. Thanks for pointing out the error.

[Guest]

On January 20, 2018 at 12:07 AM, 10THAmendment said:

Hey all,

Not sure what my goal is for this post, just kind of need to pour my heart out somewhere. I am a RM of 5 years. Had a burning testimony before, during, and for a couple years after my mission. However, one day a flip just kind of switched inside of me. Things started to bother me (A LOT) about the Church. I was recently married and after just a couple short months my testimony was mostly erased. Thinking back I think church history is what messed me up the most. When I read the essays on the LDS website which state that a lot of the anti stuff I heard growing up is factually accurate I began questioning everything. Things that didn't bother me before all of the sudden did. For example, the temple ceremony being a carbon copy of Masonic rituals, Oliver Cowdery's pastor writing a book very similar to the BOM 4 years before the BOM was published, the multiple and repeated false doctrines preached by Brigham Young, prophets of God openly discriminating against black people, etc. These things did not bother me at all, I relied on feelings alone..I knew the church was true. But when I found out that the Church was now openly admitting Joseph Smith married previously married women and sent men on missions to take their wives and that his translation of the funerary scrolls could not have been more off that fire in my heart was put out after considering all the other anti stuff I mentioned. Also, the Church becoming increasingly political and telling me to vote in ways I fundamentally disagree with every election really has put me off.

 

I have a great, faithful wife who makes sure we make it to church every week. I go but I just feel that I am only physically there. I want to have the burning testimony again but I don't know if that is possible at this point. I am pretty sure it isn't. I want to believe it (and I still may fundamentally), I want my children to have the Gospel in their lives, I want them to have a father who is strong in the church, priesthood and Gospel but I have taken such a spiritual beating for 2 full years. All I can see are my doubts and have developed a habit of questioning every single thing in the church.  I feel I have a good heart, I definitely believe in God and nothing can ever change that, the Gospel has just died inside me and it is heartbreaking.

 

Thanks for reading. Again, just had to share my feelings somewhere.

 

Two things, one I hope this is not a drive by trolling, as it seems to hit all the bullets points of one. Two, what are you doing or not doing differently that you feel this way? I hope you will return and answer, if not who are you really on other websites? 

Edited January 25, 2018 by Bill "Papa" Lee

[Kenngo1969]

https://www.fairmormon.org/conference/august-2004/i-dont-have-a-testimony-of-the-history-of-the-church

[The Nehor]

Also, is this title like how some people are beautiful on the inside, like my mom tells me I am?

[Kenngo1969]

Try these on for size, as well.  Questions are inevitable, while doubt and faith are choices.  While they revolve less around the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (they're more life-oriented questions), I have tons of questions.  That said, I am determined, the best I can, to not allow what I know to be held hostage to what, as yet, I do not know.

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2016/07/07/of-faith-evidence/

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2012/10/17/of-doubt-faith-questions-and-choices/ 

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2013/08/31/alma-32-book-of-mormon-historicity/ 

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2015/04/11/spiritual-witness/ 

For whatever they may be worth ... or not.

I wish you well.

 

[Garden Girl]

Am I not seeing him, or has 10th disappeared?

GG

[Storm Rider]

1 hour ago, Garden Girl said:

Am I not seeing him, or has 10th disappeared?

GG

He appears to have abandoned his post and is not open to engaging in a discussion about what he wrote.  I can understand that if that is the real reason.  

[Calm]

His profile says he hasn't visited since the first day he signed up, but he might have logged out and is now lurking...or he just might be someone who takes long breaks between comments.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Calm

[mnn727]

Its a favorite trick of anti's - "I was a hard core LDS but then (and gives a list off an anti website) made me doubt".

Then they either stay and engage and their real intent comes out, or they disappear forever.

[Jeanne]

Where did this person go?   Where is he now in the gospel???