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5 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Thanks that was good, kenngo.  I admit I cant wait until the day we have a officious Paul, or naughty Alma called.  it's nice we keep getting life long plodding righteous guys.  But they also seem to be the ones stuck in old times, and tradition, which it seems to me keeps clouding and blocking any innovation or inspiration.  

Ah well, someday, I guess.  

 

I suppose that's where you and I differ.  Is everything exactly the way I want it in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?  No; if it were, it would be the Church of Kenngo1969 of Latter-day ... Somethings. :huh: (Honestly, if it were, that would scare me.  See Isaiah 55:8-9.)  Your mileage varies, I'm sure, but I haven't found much success or fulfillment praying for God to change someone else's heart and mind to more closely match my own.  While I'm not holding myself up as any kind of a Paragon of Virtue, to the extent I have had success changing anyone's heart, that success has come when I've asked the Lord to (help me) change my own heart.

I suppose that you and I differ here, as well, but I think the Omniscient, Omnipotent, Lord of the Universe is capable of getting any changes He want made in His Church through the thick skull of even the obstinate President Russell M. Nelson.  And as for tradition, just be glad you're not Roman Catholic.  Not only are they steeped in tradition, they have something called sacred tradition!  Egad!  Can you imagine?! :shok::blink::huh: And then, there are Jews. 

And of course, your post points to a certain irony: This whole discussion has been about nothing but change, but, of course, that's bad, because some members are up-in-arms about those changes.  As for me? 

I would be exceedingly surprised if Elder Uchtdorf felt different.  Any disagreement notwithstanding, I certainly bear you no ill will.  Indeed, I wish you well. :) 

 

Edited by Kenngo1969
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On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 10:43 PM, bsjkki said:

I think having them taken for a stake callings makes more sense than just a release. Do some Bishops change counselors purposely to provide the experience for more people? I know, in my ward, the released counselors both struggled to understand why they were released. There was not an obvious calling waiting for them. When I grew up, the counselors served the same term as the Bishop unless they moved. But, I've seen many people struggle when they were released from a large calling. It often takes an emotional adjustment for some people...especially if it seems premature and no new callings is waiting in the wings. Some take a release very personally or feel fired. 

A long time ago I was called to serve as a stake missionary, and kept that calling for 8 years.  It was great!  In my second year, for some reason, I was called to teach the 17 year olds in Sunday School.  This was kind of surprising because stake missionaries were typically not called to any other position concurrently.  This SS calling continued for about a year, and I really enjoyed it. In fact, the kids rather liked me, I heard later.  Then suddenly out of the blue I was released with no explanation and another brother was called to teach.  He lasted three weeks until he was called into the bishopric.  They asked me if I wanted to come back, and I said No.

I actually felt fired.  And when I was offered the position back I refused because I felt that if they didn't want me in the position before, why would that change after just a few weeks.  It wasn't presented as a calling, though, just as an option.  So I didn't feel duty-bound to accept it.

It felt like the right thing to do, actually.  My policy is to never refuse a calling, but this call to "come back" didn't feel like one.  And technically I shouldn't have had it anyway.

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23 hours ago, smac97 said:

For the records, I am thrilled that polygamy is not currently practiced.  

-Smac

Well, I'm not thrilled about it, not thrilled at all.  I want at least three more wives so I can be finally and truly worn out to death trying to keep them all happy, so I can have a nervous breakdown on a monthly basis trying to love them all equally, and so I have to work one or two other jobs trying to support them our children.  Yeah, you can be thrilled you don't have it if you want.  I have a deathwish.

Edited by Stargazer
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11 hours ago, rongo said:

How did he know at that time? I think he had a problem with it, and so gave a talk talking about how it shouldn't matter. ;) 

I think most members don't sit around clucking their tongues about counselors' numbers being changed, or even FP counselors being replaced by other apostles. 

My wife said last night, and I think she's right, considering the rank-and-file active members: Only the whack-a-doos on that message board of yours are losing their minds over this. ;) 

About the whack-a-doos being the only ones, no, not quite.  One of my Facebook friends who doesn't so much as know about this board posted on Facebook asking for comments on this matter, just like Kenngo did.

I think it's a current discussion iin some places.

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How quickly we forget.

The link below is to then-President Uchtdorf's address to the Priesthood Session of the 187th Annual General Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in April of last year.  The major themes thereof are that it's not where one serves but how, and that we ought to be wary of striving for position or for prominence in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  I cannot imagine the person who gave this address being as crestfallen, despondent, angry, confused, ad infinitum, ad nauseam over his recent change in assignment as so many on this thread have insisted he must be. 

He tells of a Stake President who helped plan a major Pioneer Day celebration in his community, only to be released shortly before it occurred.  Volunteers were requested, and were instructed to dress in work clothes and to bring a shovel.  He volunteered.  His new assignment?  To clean up after the horses in the parade that was a part of the festivities.  From Stake President to pooper scooper:huh::shok::blink:Now that's a demotion! :angry::(   But he did it willingly, cheerfully, and without complaint.  And I wonder, are these the words of a man who might have had an inkling (yea, even more than an inkling) of what was to come?

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/04/the-greatest-among-you?lang=eng

Yes, how quickly we forget.

 

Edited by Kenngo1969
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16 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Well, I'm not thrilled about it, not thrilled at all.  I want at least three more wives so I can be finally and truly worn out to death trying to keep them all happy, so I can have a nervous breakdown on a monthly basis trying to love them all equally, and so I have to work one or two other jobs trying to support them our children.  Yeah, you can be thrilled you don't have it if you want.  I have a deathwish.

Funny.  :mellow:  I don't think any commandment of God, whether currently in force or not is suitable for mockery.
When it was being practiced it was considered a sacred commandment, and is/was a temple ordinance.
Yes, it was tough, but God doesn't give commandments to make us miserable.

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3 hours ago, USU78 said:

...  because you're that kind of person.  Emphasis on the "kind."

Timid as well.  I am rotten at confrontation in person.

Better now that I have been able practice standing my ground in my writing, but I generally avoid it as much as possible...especially since I don't have much confidence in confrontation for changing people's paradigms or behaviors except temporarily.

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38 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Funny.  :mellow:  I don't think any commandment of God, whether currently in force or not is suitable for mockery.
When it was being practiced it was considered a sacred commandment, and is/was a temple ordinance.
Yes, it was tough, but God doesn't give commandments to make us miserable.

I was trying to be amusing, JLHPROF, not mocking. Sorry you misunderstood. 

My standard polygamy joke used to be that it was against the principle that a man couldn't serve two masters.

My late wife had me worried about it coming back, because, she said that if I was called to practice it, she would pick out my next wife for me.

She also had a dream in which she found that after this life she would be welcoming a sister wife to the family.

If I were called to participate in it, I would do it to the best of my ability, such as that is.

But I will admit to preferring just one.

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3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:


But I think the topics of choice evident even in their discourse titles show a clear difference in approach to the gospel, plain enough for anyone to see.

Which is important.  One approach is less likely to meet even one individual's variety of needs.  A whole world of needs is best approached by multiple people filling their purpose to teach to the best of their ability in their unique way.

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1 minute ago, Stargazer said:

I was trying to be amusing, JLHPROF, not mocking. Sorry you misunderstood. 

My standard polygamy joke used to be that it was against the principle that a man couldn't serve two masters.

My late wife had me worried about it coming back, because, she said that if I was called to practice it, she would pick out my next wife for me.

She also had a dream in which she found that after this life she would be welcoming a sister wife to the family.

If I were called to participate in it, I would do it to the best of my ability, such as that is.

But I will admit to preferring just one.

Correct me if I'm wrong or misremembering, but aren't you already a polygamist like President Nelson?
I seem to remember you were going to remarry after the loss of your late wife.

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Just now, Calm said:

Which is important.  One approach is less likely to meet even one individual's variety of needs.  A whole world of needs is best approached by multiple people filling their purpose to teach to the best of their ability in their unique way.

Agreed.  Absolutely 100%.
I still think that President Oaks is ideologically more like President Nelson than Elder Uchtdorf would have been.  And perhaps that was one consideration in the switch.

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46 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

It's been pointed out that the new Acting President of the Twelve got his hand patted, too.  I don't think he was despondent over his promotion -- but then again, maybe he was.  Or maybe it was a supportive pat upon being mentioned.

The mention of the name could have just triggered a feeling of love that he wanted to express in both moments.

OTOH, not much option beyond touching someone in that setting to express anything so the same action could have multiple meanings.

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Just now, JLHPROF said:

Correct me if I'm wrong or misremembering, but aren't you already a polygamist like President Nelson?
I seem to remember you were going to remarry after the loss of your late wife.

No, my current wife is sealed to her late husband.

Yes, after I told my late wife that I would stay single after she died, she told me in no uncertain terms that she expected me to remarry.  I think she was worried I might get lost without a firm female hand to guide me.  She also had a couple of suggestions for my next spouse, both of whom were not sealed to a previous husband, so it could have been possible to be like President Nelson. Except that neither of them were interested, as far as I could tell.  My living wife's name is Wendy, by the way, and she is charmed that President Nelson's wife also has that name.

She also thinks I spend too much time on this board, especially when I have to give a talk on Sunday and I'm not done getting ready for it.  But I usually give better talks when I am less prepared, oddly enough.

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3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Agreed.  Absolutely 100%.
I still think that President Oaks is ideologically more like President Nelson than Elder Uchtdorf would have been.  And perhaps that was one consideration in the switch.

They were very relaxed and 'at home' with each other, even in comparison to the level of brotherhood generally expressed among the 15.

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10 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

No, my current wife is sealed to her late husband.

Yes, after I told my late wife that I would stay single after she died, she told me in no uncertain terms that she expected me to remarry.  I think she was worried I might get lost without a firm female hand to guide me.  She also had a couple of suggestions for my next spouse, both of whom were not sealed to a previous husband, so it could have been possible to be like President Nelson. Except that neither of them were interested, as far as I could tell.  My living wife's name is Wendy, by the way, and she is charmed that President Nelson's wife also has that name.

She also thinks I spend too much time on this board, especially when I have to give a talk on Sunday and I'm not done getting ready for it.  But I usually give better talks when I am less prepared, oddly enough.

Thank for clarifying.  I wasn't sure I remembered correctly. :)

I think we all spend too much time on this board.  My wife would agree with yours. ;)

 

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1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

It's been pointed out that the new Acting President of the Twelve got his hand patted, too.  I don't think he was despondent over his promotion -- but then again, maybe he was.  Or maybe it was a supportive pat upon being mentioned.

Or perhaps it was a gesture of commendation for past service we’ll rendered. 

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1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

How quickly we forget.

The link below is to then-President Uchtdorf's address to the Priesthood Session of the 187th Annual General Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in April of last year.  The major themes thereof are that it's not where one serves but how, and that we ought to be wary of striving for position or for prominence in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  I cannot imagine the person who gave this address being as crestfallen, despondent, angry, confused, ad infinitum, ad nauseam over his recent change in assignment as so many on this thread have insisted he must be. 

He tells of a Stake President who helped plan a major Pioneer Day celebration in his community, only to be released shortly before it occurred.  Volunteers were requested, and were instructed to dress in work clothes and to bring a shovel.  He volunteered.  His new assignment?  To clean up after the horses in the parade that was a part of the festivities.  From Stake President to pooper scooper:huh::shok::blink:Now that's a demotion! :angry::(   But he did it willingly, cheerfully, and without complaint.  And I wonder, are these the words of a man who might have had an inkling (yea, even more than an inkling) of what was to come?

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/04/the-greatest-among-you?lang=eng

Yes, how quickly we forget.

 

Mentioned several times earlier in this thread. But the people who didn't want to be influenced by it ignored it.

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10 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Elder Uchtdorf just put this out on FB

 "I have seen countless comments on social media and have heard many questions regarding how I feel now that I am no longer a counselor in the First Presidency. I appreciate your concern for my welfare, but I assure you, I’m just fine

I love and support the First Presidency, and I am thrilled to again more closely associate with the other members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

Just after being called to the First Presidency in 2008, I delivered a talk in general conference titled “Lift Where You Stand.” During that address, I discussed the importance of seeing every calling we receive—no matter what it is—as an opportunity to strengthen and bless others and become what Heavenly Father wants us to become. I could give that talk again today and the words I shared would be just as relevant.

Just a few days ago, Harriet and I spoke to the young people of the Church and made specific reference to how we cannot connect the dots in our lives looking forward. We can only do so looking backward. In hindsight, each of us will see how the dots connect in our lives on a more elevated, spiritual level.

One of my favorite quotes comes from President Gordon B. Hinckley, who said the following:

“Your obligation is as serious in your sphere of responsibility as is my obligation in my sphere. No calling in this Church is small or of little consequence. All of us in the pursuit of our duty touch the lives of others.”

 

I think he has a great attitude, besides, less meetings, who wouldn't want that;)

That should end all discussion of the matter

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