Kenngo1969 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, stemelbow said: Thanks that was good, kenngo. I admit I cant wait until the day we have a officious Paul, or naughty Alma called. it's nice we keep getting life long plodding righteous guys. But they also seem to be the ones stuck in old times, and tradition, which it seems to me keeps clouding and blocking any innovation or inspiration. Ah well, someday, I guess. I suppose that's where you and I differ. Is everything exactly the way I want it in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? No; if it were, it would be the Church of Kenngo1969 of Latter-day ... Somethings. (Honestly, if it were, that would scare me. See Isaiah 55:8-9.) Your mileage varies, I'm sure, but I haven't found much success or fulfillment praying for God to change someone else's heart and mind to more closely match my own. While I'm not holding myself up as any kind of a Paragon of Virtue, to the extent I have had success changing anyone's heart, that success has come when I've asked the Lord to (help me) change my own heart. I suppose that you and I differ here, as well, but I think the Omniscient, Omnipotent, Lord of the Universe is capable of getting any changes He want made in His Church through the thick skull of even the obstinate President Russell M. Nelson. And as for tradition, just be glad you're not Roman Catholic. Not only are they steeped in tradition, they have something called sacred tradition! Egad! Can you imagine?! And then, there are Jews. And of course, your post points to a certain irony: This whole discussion has been about nothing but change, but, of course, that's bad, because some members are up-in-arms about those changes. As for me? I would be exceedingly surprised if Elder Uchtdorf felt different. Any disagreement notwithstanding, I certainly bear you no ill will. Indeed, I wish you well. Edited January 18, 2018 by Kenngo1969 4 Link to comment
Popular Post Stargazer Posted January 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2018 On 1/16/2018 at 8:05 PM, CMZ said: I have a good anecdote related to that that I'll relate later on when I have the time. But it's about someone being soooo sure that some leader was demoted because of what they deemed to be an upset look on their face. The other day I was driving down the road and the wife asked if I were upset with her. I said, "No, not at all! Why do you ask?" "Because you look upset!" "I'm not upset, I was just thinking how lucky I am to be married to you!" I love all the mindreading that people think they're doing right now. All they're doing is reading their own minds. And projecting. 7 Link to comment
Stargazer Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 On 1/16/2018 at 10:43 PM, bsjkki said: I think having them taken for a stake callings makes more sense than just a release. Do some Bishops change counselors purposely to provide the experience for more people? I know, in my ward, the released counselors both struggled to understand why they were released. There was not an obvious calling waiting for them. When I grew up, the counselors served the same term as the Bishop unless they moved. But, I've seen many people struggle when they were released from a large calling. It often takes an emotional adjustment for some people...especially if it seems premature and no new callings is waiting in the wings. Some take a release very personally or feel fired. A long time ago I was called to serve as a stake missionary, and kept that calling for 8 years. It was great! In my second year, for some reason, I was called to teach the 17 year olds in Sunday School. This was kind of surprising because stake missionaries were typically not called to any other position concurrently. This SS calling continued for about a year, and I really enjoyed it. In fact, the kids rather liked me, I heard later. Then suddenly out of the blue I was released with no explanation and another brother was called to teach. He lasted three weeks until he was called into the bishopric. They asked me if I wanted to come back, and I said No. I actually felt fired. And when I was offered the position back I refused because I felt that if they didn't want me in the position before, why would that change after just a few weeks. It wasn't presented as a calling, though, just as an option. So I didn't feel duty-bound to accept it. It felt like the right thing to do, actually. My policy is to never refuse a calling, but this call to "come back" didn't feel like one. And technically I shouldn't have had it anyway. Link to comment
Stargazer Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, smac97 said: For the records, I am thrilled that polygamy is not currently practiced. -Smac Well, I'm not thrilled about it, not thrilled at all. I want at least three more wives so I can be finally and truly worn out to death trying to keep them all happy, so I can have a nervous breakdown on a monthly basis trying to love them all equally, and so I have to work one or two other jobs trying to support them our children. Yeah, you can be thrilled you don't have it if you want. I have a deathwish. Edited January 17, 2018 by Stargazer 2 Link to comment
Stargazer Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 11 hours ago, rongo said: How did he know at that time? I think he had a problem with it, and so gave a talk talking about how it shouldn't matter. I think most members don't sit around clucking their tongues about counselors' numbers being changed, or even FP counselors being replaced by other apostles. My wife said last night, and I think she's right, considering the rank-and-file active members: Only the whack-a-doos on that message board of yours are losing their minds over this. About the whack-a-doos being the only ones, no, not quite. One of my Facebook friends who doesn't so much as know about this board posted on Facebook asking for comments on this matter, just like Kenngo did. I think it's a current discussion iin some places. Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) How quickly we forget. The link below is to then-President Uchtdorf's address to the Priesthood Session of the 187th Annual General Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in April of last year. The major themes thereof are that it's not where one serves but how, and that we ought to be wary of striving for position or for prominence in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I cannot imagine the person who gave this address being as crestfallen, despondent, angry, confused, ad infinitum, ad nauseam over his recent change in assignment as so many on this thread have insisted he must be. He tells of a Stake President who helped plan a major Pioneer Day celebration in his community, only to be released shortly before it occurred. Volunteers were requested, and were instructed to dress in work clothes and to bring a shovel. He volunteered. His new assignment? To clean up after the horses in the parade that was a part of the festivities. From Stake President to pooper scooper? Now that's a demotion! But he did it willingly, cheerfully, and without complaint. And I wonder, are these the words of a man who might have had an inkling (yea, even more than an inkling) of what was to come? https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/04/the-greatest-among-you?lang=eng Yes, how quickly we forget. Edited January 18, 2018 by Kenngo1969 3 Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, Stargazer said: Well, I'm not thrilled about it, not thrilled at all. I want at least three more wives so I can be finally and truly worn out to death trying to keep them all happy, so I can have a nervous breakdown on a monthly basis trying to love them all equally, and so I have to work one or two other jobs trying to support them our children. Yeah, you can be thrilled you don't have it if you want. I have a deathwish. Funny. I don't think any commandment of God, whether currently in force or not is suitable for mockery. When it was being practiced it was considered a sacred commandment, and is/was a temple ordinance. Yes, it was tough, but God doesn't give commandments to make us miserable. Link to comment
Popular Post Stargazer Posted January 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 18, 2018 7 hours ago, Exiled said: It is forever possible that E. Holland's gesture was nothing, however, given the circumstances, it probably does mean reassurance due to a perceived public set-back. Why the resistance to the obvious? Is it somehow a spiritual crime to express normal human emotion? It's been pointed out that the new Acting President of the Twelve got his hand patted, too. I don't think he was despondent over his promotion -- but then again, maybe he was. Or maybe it was a supportive pat upon being mentioned. 5 Link to comment
Calm Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 3 hours ago, USU78 said: ... because you're that kind of person. Emphasis on the "kind." Timid as well. I am rotten at confrontation in person. Better now that I have been able practice standing my ground in my writing, but I generally avoid it as much as possible...especially since I don't have much confidence in confrontation for changing people's paradigms or behaviors except temporarily. 2 Link to comment
Stargazer Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 38 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Funny. I don't think any commandment of God, whether currently in force or not is suitable for mockery. When it was being practiced it was considered a sacred commandment, and is/was a temple ordinance. Yes, it was tough, but God doesn't give commandments to make us miserable. I was trying to be amusing, JLHPROF, not mocking. Sorry you misunderstood. My standard polygamy joke used to be that it was against the principle that a man couldn't serve two masters. My late wife had me worried about it coming back, because, she said that if I was called to practice it, she would pick out my next wife for me. She also had a dream in which she found that after this life she would be welcoming a sister wife to the family. If I were called to participate in it, I would do it to the best of my ability, such as that is. But I will admit to preferring just one. 2 Link to comment
Calm Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 3 hours ago, JLHPROF said: But I think the topics of choice evident even in their discourse titles show a clear difference in approach to the gospel, plain enough for anyone to see. Which is important. One approach is less likely to meet even one individual's variety of needs. A whole world of needs is best approached by multiple people filling their purpose to teach to the best of their ability in their unique way. 3 Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Stargazer said: I was trying to be amusing, JLHPROF, not mocking. Sorry you misunderstood. My standard polygamy joke used to be that it was against the principle that a man couldn't serve two masters. My late wife had me worried about it coming back, because, she said that if I was called to practice it, she would pick out my next wife for me. She also had a dream in which she found that after this life she would be welcoming a sister wife to the family. If I were called to participate in it, I would do it to the best of my ability, such as that is. But I will admit to preferring just one. Correct me if I'm wrong or misremembering, but aren't you already a polygamist like President Nelson? I seem to remember you were going to remarry after the loss of your late wife. Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Just now, Calm said: Which is important. One approach is less likely to meet even one individual's variety of needs. A whole world of needs is best approached by multiple people filling their purpose to teach to the best of their ability in their unique way. Agreed. Absolutely 100%. I still think that President Oaks is ideologically more like President Nelson than Elder Uchtdorf would have been. And perhaps that was one consideration in the switch. Link to comment
Calm Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 46 minutes ago, Stargazer said: It's been pointed out that the new Acting President of the Twelve got his hand patted, too. I don't think he was despondent over his promotion -- but then again, maybe he was. Or maybe it was a supportive pat upon being mentioned. The mention of the name could have just triggered a feeling of love that he wanted to express in both moments. OTOH, not much option beyond touching someone in that setting to express anything so the same action could have multiple meanings. Link to comment
Stargazer Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Just now, JLHPROF said: Correct me if I'm wrong or misremembering, but aren't you already a polygamist like President Nelson? I seem to remember you were going to remarry after the loss of your late wife. No, my current wife is sealed to her late husband. Yes, after I told my late wife that I would stay single after she died, she told me in no uncertain terms that she expected me to remarry. I think she was worried I might get lost without a firm female hand to guide me. She also had a couple of suggestions for my next spouse, both of whom were not sealed to a previous husband, so it could have been possible to be like President Nelson. Except that neither of them were interested, as far as I could tell. My living wife's name is Wendy, by the way, and she is charmed that President Nelson's wife also has that name. She also thinks I spend too much time on this board, especially when I have to give a talk on Sunday and I'm not done getting ready for it. But I usually give better talks when I am less prepared, oddly enough. 1 Link to comment
Calm Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Agreed. Absolutely 100%. I still think that President Oaks is ideologically more like President Nelson than Elder Uchtdorf would have been. And perhaps that was one consideration in the switch. They were very relaxed and 'at home' with each other, even in comparison to the level of brotherhood generally expressed among the 15. 1 Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, Stargazer said: No, my current wife is sealed to her late husband. Yes, after I told my late wife that I would stay single after she died, she told me in no uncertain terms that she expected me to remarry. I think she was worried I might get lost without a firm female hand to guide me. She also had a couple of suggestions for my next spouse, both of whom were not sealed to a previous husband, so it could have been possible to be like President Nelson. Except that neither of them were interested, as far as I could tell. My living wife's name is Wendy, by the way, and she is charmed that President Nelson's wife also has that name. She also thinks I spend too much time on this board, especially when I have to give a talk on Sunday and I'm not done getting ready for it. But I usually give better talks when I am less prepared, oddly enough. Thank for clarifying. I wasn't sure I remembered correctly. I think we all spend too much time on this board. My wife would agree with yours. Link to comment
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted January 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 18, 2018 23 hours ago, kiwi57 said: Speculating about purely imaginary disagreements, and then airing one's own speculations as if they have some basis in fact, is unhealthy gossip. There is not an "Oaks faction," "Packer Faction" or "Christofferson faction" in the quorum. I don't for a minute imagine that consensus is immediate and undiscussed; in fact, I believe the brethren when they say that there is considerable and robust debate leading up to decisions being made. But the politicking you wish to project into their counsels doesn't happen. The gossips' creed rests upon two famous proverbs: "There's no smoke without fire" and "I wouldn't put it past them." No evidence is required for gossip. I will continue to take the brethren at their word, and you can substitute your own baseless opinions for their testimony wherever and whenever you like. How oft it has been pointed out that in the Lord’s plan for succession in His Church, there is no unseemly electioneering, no campaigning for office, no political factions, etc. President Nelson reiterated it again this week. And how ironic that some are so eager to see politics at play that they make it up out of whole cloth, imposing their own expectations where no evidence is to be found. I’ve seen the term “confirmation bias” bandied about but have never seen a clearer example than in this instance. 6 Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Stargazer said: It's been pointed out that the new Acting President of the Twelve got his hand patted, too. I don't think he was despondent over his promotion -- but then again, maybe he was. Or maybe it was a supportive pat upon being mentioned. Or perhaps it was a gesture of commendation for past service we’ll rendered. Link to comment
Popular Post Lemuel Posted January 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 18, 2018 I've got it figured out: In an April 2014 GC talk, Nelson said: Quote On a recent flight, our pilot announced that we would encounter turbulence during our descent and that all passengers must fasten their seat belts securely. Sure enough, turbulence came. It was really rough. Across the aisle and a couple of rows behind me, a terrified woman panicked. With each frightening drop and jarring bump, she screamed loudly. Her husband tried to comfort her but to no avail. Her hysterical shouts persisted until we passed through that zone of turbulence to a safe landing. During her period of anxiety, I felt sorry for her. Because faith is the antidote for fear, I silently wished that I could have strengthened her faith. Later, as passengers were leaving the aircraft, this woman’s husband spoke to me. He said, “I’m sorry my wife was so terrified. The only way I could comfort her was to tell her that ‘Elder Nelson is on this flight, so you don’t need to worry.’” https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2014/04/let-your-faith-show?lang=eng Uchtdorf was dropped because airplane stories give Nelson PTSD. 6 Link to comment
CMZ Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 An example of President Oaks being in accord with President/Elder Uchtdorf: Quote First, consider the love of God, described so meaningfully this morning by President Dieter F. Uchtdorf.https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2009/10/love-and-law?lang=eng Link to comment
CMZ Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said: How quickly we forget. The link below is to then-President Uchtdorf's address to the Priesthood Session of the 187th Annual General Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in April of last year. The major themes thereof are that it's not where one serves but how, and that we ought to be wary of striving for position or for prominence in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I cannot imagine the person who gave this address being as crestfallen, despondent, angry, confused, ad infinitum, ad nauseam over his recent change in assignment as so many on this thread have insisted he must be. He tells of a Stake President who helped plan a major Pioneer Day celebration in his community, only to be released shortly before it occurred. Volunteers were requested, and were instructed to dress in work clothes and to bring a shovel. He volunteered. His new assignment? To clean up after the horses in the parade that was a part of the festivities. From Stake President to pooper scooper? Now that's a demotion! But he did it willingly, cheerfully, and without complaint. And I wonder, are these the words of a man who might have had an inkling (yea, even more than an inkling) of what was to come? https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/04/the-greatest-among-you?lang=eng Yes, how quickly we forget. Mentioned several times earlier in this thread. But the people who didn't want to be influenced by it ignored it. 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Duncan Posted January 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 18, 2018 Elder Uchtdorf just put this out on FB "I have seen countless comments on social media and have heard many questions regarding how I feel now that I am no longer a counselor in the First Presidency. I appreciate your concern for my welfare, but I assure you, I’m just fine I love and support the First Presidency, and I am thrilled to again more closely associate with the other members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Just after being called to the First Presidency in 2008, I delivered a talk in general conference titled “Lift Where You Stand.” During that address, I discussed the importance of seeing every calling we receive—no matter what it is—as an opportunity to strengthen and bless others and become what Heavenly Father wants us to become. I could give that talk again today and the words I shared would be just as relevant. Just a few days ago, Harriet and I spoke to the young people of the Church and made specific reference to how we cannot connect the dots in our lives looking forward. We can only do so looking backward. In hindsight, each of us will see how the dots connect in our lives on a more elevated, spiritual level. One of my favorite quotes comes from President Gordon B. Hinckley, who said the following: “Your obligation is as serious in your sphere of responsibility as is my obligation in my sphere. No calling in this Church is small or of little consequence. All of us in the pursuit of our duty touch the lives of others.” I think he has a great attitude, besides, less meetings, who wouldn't want that 7 Link to comment
Avatar4321 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, Duncan said: Elder Uchtdorf just put this out on FB "I have seen countless comments on social media and have heard many questions regarding how I feel now that I am no longer a counselor in the First Presidency. I appreciate your concern for my welfare, but I assure you, I’m just fine I love and support the First Presidency, and I am thrilled to again more closely associate with the other members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Just after being called to the First Presidency in 2008, I delivered a talk in general conference titled “Lift Where You Stand.” During that address, I discussed the importance of seeing every calling we receive—no matter what it is—as an opportunity to strengthen and bless others and become what Heavenly Father wants us to become. I could give that talk again today and the words I shared would be just as relevant. Just a few days ago, Harriet and I spoke to the young people of the Church and made specific reference to how we cannot connect the dots in our lives looking forward. We can only do so looking backward. In hindsight, each of us will see how the dots connect in our lives on a more elevated, spiritual level. One of my favorite quotes comes from President Gordon B. Hinckley, who said the following: “Your obligation is as serious in your sphere of responsibility as is my obligation in my sphere. No calling in this Church is small or of little consequence. All of us in the pursuit of our duty touch the lives of others.” I think he has a great attitude, besides, less meetings, who wouldn't want that That should end all discussion of the matter 3 Link to comment
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