Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Avatar4321 said:

I've seen absolutely nothing to indicate any conflicts going on

There's conflict and then there's conflict.
Just because one is easily spotted and the other isn't doesn't indicate an absence.

Canadian+protest_ffa247_3583684.jpgangry.jpg

Link to comment
3 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Statement from Elder Uchtdorf:

Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles who served as President Thomas S. Monson's counselor in the First Presidency, offered words of support to the Church's new First Presidency: President Russell M. Nelson and his counselors, President Dallin H. Oaks and President Henry B. Eyring.

In a note on his Facebook profile, Elder Uchtdorf said:

“It was a joy to participate in this morning’s announcement of the new First Presidency. I love and sustain President Russell M. Nelson, President Dallin H. Oaks, and President Henry B. Eyring. I can assure you, the Lord Himself is at the head of His Church, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

“The Lord has provided a divine plan so that His Church is always led by prophets, seers, and revelators. I embrace the opportunity to associate with my Brethren in the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. I love them and look forward to serving with them as we — along with you — strive to serve the Lord.”

Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf offers support to newly called Church leaders

I like this.  And I'm 100% certain he means every word.
Doesn't change the surprising decision that led to this.

Edited by JLHPROF
Link to comment
2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

:lol: - That's why I like you Calm...

There is something to be said for receiving confirmation by the spirit for our thoughts.  But there is something else to be said for God dictating his will without any input from us mere mortals.
I have a feeling in Apostolic history we have some of both.

I would think the experience of getting a name they were unaware of prior to that time would be frighteningly exhilarating.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Pres. Eyring is a sweetheart, I wonder how his wife is doing since he mentioned she couldn't be there.

She's quite ill. Rumor is that she may not be with us much longer. Sis Ballard is also quite ill.

3 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

There is evidence, they are small evidences, but it doesn't mean they don't exist.  Saying there is zero evidence or that this is a fantasy is silly hyperbole on your part.  I'm sure you're aware of others who have this impression about Uchtdorf as well, are all these people who follow these issues completely mistaken? 

I didn't mean it as hyperbole. Being nice and welcoming doesn't mean your view of the commandments are different. If you think there is evidence could you clarify? (Not very ambiguous stuff like "body language" which I confess I just don't see in the video I've looked at) I've looked for anything suggesting Uchtdorf has a view different from Monson and I can't find it.

I laid out the counter-evidence. Monson and Uchtdorf both use welcoming, loving language. Both were the leaders who started the Prop-8 action and related policies. Uchtdorf has given talks on LGBT things and while being understanding, he also we pretty straightforward on the party line. 

Edited by clarkgoble
Link to comment
1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

I like this.  And I'm 100% certain he means every word.
Doesn't change the surprising decision that led to this.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/10/come-join-with-us?lang=eng

I will miss him so much as a leader that has many opportunities to speak in General Conference. I hope he still has a public voice, because he surely helped many to stay in the church, despite their doubts.

Link to comment
10 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/10/come-join-with-us?lang=eng

I will miss him so much as a leader that has many opportunities to speak in General Conference. I hope he still has a public voice, because he surely helped many to stay in the church, despite their doubts.

Pretty much all the 12 get to speak every conference.   You will still get to hear from him every conference.

Link to comment
11 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

It's not a demotion, but it is an overreach to think they are all perfectly united on every single decision.  Once the decision has been reached maybe, but there are definitely different approaches.
This First Presidency will undoubtedly be more orthodox and conservative in its approach than the previous.

I looks like retrenchment will continue.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, pogi said:

I have no reason to protect Elder Uchtdorf.  I don't hold the brethren as perfect infallible men.  It wouldn't make the church any less true for me if your interpretation was correct.  They are not above human susceptibility to emotions of disappointment or upset.  I simply try to call it as I see it.

There is a good lesson in this about perception though.  Isn't it fascinating how two different people can be subject to the exact same stimulus and honestly interpret it in two completely different ways! Our interpretations are influenced by the filters of our biases and perspectives.  If you view this as a "demotion", then you are primed to interpret his facial expressions as being upset.  But what if I preconditioned an ignorant subject to believe that he was being promoted before watching the video (without sound)?  There is no way that the subject would interpret his facial expressions, or the hand pat by Elder Holland, in the same way.  That would be an interesting experiment!  Our preconditioned perspectives of Elder Uchtdorf, and the circumstances of his release, are completely different.  That is why we interpret the video differently. 

I wasn't particularly thinking about it as demotion. I was just struck by Elder Uchtdorf's utterly despondent expression.

Link to comment
55 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

I laid out the counter-evidence. Monson and Uchtdorf both use welcoming, loving language. Both were the leaders who started the Prop-8 action and related policies. Uchtdorf has given talks on LGBT things and while being understanding, he also we pretty straightforward on the party line. 

I don't think there's any evidence that Uchtdorf had anything to do with Prop 8.

Link to comment
12 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Pretty much all the 12 get to speak every conference.   You will still get to hear from him every conference.

Yes, but only once. Where the rubber meets the road for most Saints the only visible difference for most between a member of the First Presidency and a member of the Quorum of the Twelve is two talks versus one talk in General Conference.

This is why I am still annoyed they have not put Elder Holland in the First Presidency yet. :( 

Link to comment
34 minutes ago, Ginger Snaps said:

No, that was the one at the press conference.  There was one of Mary and Jesus at the tomb that was behind them in the temple, but was also included in all (or several) of the press materials.  

Try Christ and Mary at the Tomb by Joseph Brickey (name was on pininterest, not sure if right one, I googled "Mary at the tomb" and then looked at 'images').

tombs3.jpg

Edited by Calm
Link to comment
11 hours ago, ALarson said:

I'm sure some members will be disappointed as they really do love Elder Uchtdorf. 

Does anyone care what I think?

Anyway, it was time for him to go back to being an ordinary member of the Q12.  Perhaps his very popularity had the seeds of personal destruction.  This was for his own benefit.

That is what I think.

Edited by cdowis
Link to comment
11 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

So saddened by losing Elder Uchtdorf in the presidency.  This is not a good sign for the progressives in the church like me.   Here is my suspicion on what just happened.  

1.  I think Elder Oaks "earned" this promotion through his vocal and ardent articulation on the LGBT topic and on women and the priesthood, and I think Nelson rewarded and promoted him accordingly.  

2. I suspect that Elder Uchtdorf was vocal behind the scenes with concerns about the LGBT policy and possibly other issues, and I think Nelson and others interpreted his concerns as disloyalty.  

This news today has me greatly saddened.  I see this as retrenchment and a move in the wrong direction.  

Do you really believe this?  A new presidency is no different than a new bishop being called who then gets new counselors.  It does not mean the previous counselors had problems or are going away.  Some somebody else is getting a shot at doing some stuff.  Uchdorf will still be at conference giving talks and still we be giving talks around the Church.  Being a counselor in the First Presidency gives that apostle no more authority than the other apostles.  I really don't think LGBT issues are affecting the Church that much and I don't see Oaks and Uchtdorf being in disagreement.  They may approach the issue a little different but and the end of they day, they arrive at the same conclusions.

Link to comment
12 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

The "Silver Fox's" "demotion" isn't going to go over well with some people.  Perhaps the most interesting thing about this so far is that President Nelson has said that the Brethren in new callings (or "old callings," in President-cum-Elder Uchtdorf's case) have already received assignments for which they are uniquely qualified.

Thoughts?

I think it utter nonsense to refer to any "demotion" here.  The choice of counselors is completely up to the Pres, and does not reflect well or badly upon those appointed or not appointed.  What you are suggesting is that any release from a calling anywhere in the Church reflects badly upon the person released.  That may be the way of the world, but it is certainly not the way of God.

Link to comment
1 minute ago, Gray said:

Not tea leaves. Faces. That's something we all do every day. Normal part of human communication.

The problem with that is that we often see what we want to see (as with tea leaves).  Juries often use that method to read suspects and witnesses, and too often reach the wrong verdict thereby.  It is "normal," and too often simply wrong.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...