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Okrahomer

Cathedral bells ring out for President Monson

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35 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

I’m watching coverage of President Monson’s funeral.  I can’t help but feel gratitude for this kind gesture by our Catholic brothers and sisters.

 

3 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Thank you.

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7 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

That is the caliber of writing that brings people together in unity and joyfully serve those in need.  So very, very kind and thoughtful; an example that we should all emulate in our own lives.

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Elder McConkie is doing cartwheels in his grave. :vader: 

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The bells pealed for the duration of the funeral procession. I was moved to tears.

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19 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Nice!

Completely off-topic, but I wonder at the coat of arms of the diocese - a wooden sailing ship with the cross of St. George, with an apparent comet (or star):

logo-crest.png

Nice looking logo!

 

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16 hours ago, saemo said:

The waves represent the Great Salt Lake. On the waves a ship, that represents the Church in Utah.  It comes from a quote from St. Hippolytus,  “The world is a sea, in which the Church, like a ship, is beaten by the waves but not submerged”. The splendid Cross on the sail, represents the Father’s love, in sending His Son. The comet is a guiding star, the Morning Star, the Light of Christ, that guides the ship on its journey. It was taken from the coat of arms of Pope Leo XIII, who was Pope when the Diocese of SLC was established.

Super! I really enjoy heraldry.

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Wondering if anyone here can explain more about the significance of the ringing of bells for a funeral procession. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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Original reason may have been to frighten evil spirits away.

Small towns with people spread out and no phones could communicate this way:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/etc/fcod/fcod08.htm

Edited by Calm
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On 1/19/2018 at 10:22 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

Wondering if anyone here can explain more about the sifnificance of the ringing of bells for a funeral procession. 

Bells have been used as a means of communication for hundreds if not thousands of years. In this case, they announced the funeral procession, reminding parishioners to pray for the soul of the deceased. It is a custom that originated in Europe...to ring the church bells as a funeral processed from the funeral house to the gates of the church, in this case, to the gates of the cemetery. 

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4 hours ago, saemo said:

Bells have been used as a means of communication for hundreds if not thousands of years. In this case, they announced the funeral procession, reminding parishioners to pray for the soul of the deceased. It is a custom that originated in Europe...to ring the church bells as a funeral processed from the funeral house to the gates of the church, in this case, to the gates of the cemetery. 

Thanks for that information.

It is heartwarming that the diocese would remind its parishioners to pray for the soul of a departed president of the Church of Jesus Christ -- just as it is heartwarming that Mormons would perform non-binding ordinances of salvation for the souls of their departed kin conditioned on the acceptance of those ordinances by the ones for whom they are performed (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

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9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Thanks for that information.

It is heartwarming that the diocese would remind its parishioners to pray for the soul of a departed president of the Church of Jesus Christ -- just as it is heartwarming that Mormons would perform non-binding ordinances of salvation for the souls of their departed kin conditioned on the acceptance of those ordinances by the ones for whom they are performed (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

On the flip side, I read many comments on Facebook, from LDS who found the ringing of the bells to be very touching...not sure what each of them thought it represented or why they found it touching. (?)

 

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The ones I talked to thought of it like a 21 gun salute as a sign of respect.

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9 minutes ago, Calm said:

The ones I talked to thought of it like a 21 gun salute as a sign of respect.

LOL! 

In it’s own way, it’s saying “you’re part of our community and we mourn your passing as one of our own”. 

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9 hours ago, saemo said:

LOL! 

In it’s own way, it’s saying “you’re part of our community and we mourn your passing as one of our own”. 

That is how I thought of it. 

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11 hours ago, saemo said:

On the flip side, I read many comments on Facebook, from LDS who found the ringing of the bells to be very touching...not sure what each of them thought it represented or why they found it touching. (?)

 

I just said I found it touching. I'm not clear why you say their comments are "on the flip side."

 

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On 1/26/2018 at 8:35 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

I just said I found it touching. I'm not clear why you say their comments are "on the flip side."

 

Heyo Scott Lloyd, I think you ar interviewing and I am conversing? Round about to your question, flip side.  🤟

Edited by saemo

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On 1/25/2018 at 12:27 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

Thanks for that information.

It is heartwarming that the diocese would remind its parishioners to pray for the soul of a departed president of the Church of Jesus Christ -- just as it is heartwarming that Mormons would perform non-binding ordinances of salvation for the souls of their departed kin conditioned on the acceptance of those ordinances by the ones for whom they are performed (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

 

On 1/26/2018 at 9:35 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

I just said I found it touching. I'm not clear why you say their comments are "on the flip side."

 

Ok, maybe I can help with this. Why did you say what I have bolded up above? 

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1 hour ago, Rain said:

 

Ok, maybe I can help with this. Why did you say what I have bolded up above? 

To point out that the Catholic practice of praying for the souls of the dead and the Mormon practice of performing vicarious ordinances of salvation for the dead have comparable intent. 

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5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

To point out that the Catholic practice of praying for the souls of the dead and the Mormon practice of performing vicarious ordinances of salvation for the dead have comparable intent. 

Yes, I understand that. But why did you want to point that out during this thread and with the "wink, wink"?

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1 hour ago, Rain said:

Yes, I understand that. But why did you want to point that out during this thread and with the "wink, wink"?

Because the Church of Jesus Christ in the past has been unjustly maligned for its practice of work for the dead which, in fact, is as altruistic as the Catholic practice of praying for the souls of the dead. 

Do you have a point with this string of questions? You said you intended to help, but I’m starting to sense an ambush. 

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33 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Because the Church of Jesus Christ in the past has been unjustly maligned for its practice of work for the dead which, in fact, is as altruistic as the Catholic practice of praying for the souls of the dead. 

Do you have a point with this string of questions? You said you intended to help, but I’m starting to sense an ambush. 

I wanted to understand your intention before making an assumprion. 

You asked what sounded here like a sincere question:

On 1/19/2018 at 10:22 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

Wondering if anyone here can explain more about the significance of the ringing of bells for a funeral procession. 

Saemo responded:

On 1/25/2018 at 8:12 AM, saemo said:

Bells have been used as a means of communication for hundreds if not thousands of years. In this case, they announced the funeral procession, reminding parishioners to pray for the soul of the deceased. It is a custom that originated in Europe...to ring the church bells as a funeral processed from the funeral house to the gates of the church, in this case, to the gates of the cemetery. 

I got from this that when the bells rang for President Monson that the Catholic Church had love and tenderness for someone they cared about.

You replied with:

On 1/25/2018 at 12:27 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

Thanks for that information.

It is heartwarming that the diocese would remind its parishioners to pray for the soul of a departed president of the Church of Jesus Christ

Which makes it sound like you appreciated the gesture. 

Then you added:

Quote

-- just as it is heartwarming that Mormons would perform non-binding ordinances of salvation for the souls of their departed kin conditioned on the acceptance of those ordinances by the ones for whom they are performed (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

Which felt to me that the first of what you wrote wasn't sincere, but a way to prove a point which felt uncomfortable to me given the nature of this thread and the good will of our catholic friends.

So when saemo posted this:

On 1/25/2018 at 10:22 PM, saemo said:

On the flip side, I read many comments on Facebook, from LDS who found the ringing of the bells to be very touching...not sure what each of them thought it represented or why they found it touching. (?)

 

then I got the impression he/she felt the same way. Saemo was saying that, contrary to feeling like they needed to defend one of the church's practices (which seemed like you were doing), many things she read were that people were touched by the compassion of the catholics.

So all that goes to show why some of us found a disconnct and were not quite sure if you honestly felt touched or if you were just trying to score points.

Edited by Rain
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1 hour ago, Rain said:

I wanted to understand your intention before making an assumprion. 

You asked what sounded here like a sincere question:

Saemo responded:

I got from this that when the bells rang for President Monson that the Catholic Church had love and tenderness for someone they cared about.

You replied with:

Which makes it sound like you appreciated the gesture. 

Then you added:

Which felt to me that the first of what you wrote wasn't sincere, but a way to prove a point which felt uncomfortable to me given the nature of this thread and the good will of our catholic friends.

So when saemo posted this:

then I got the impression he/she felt the same way. Saemo was saying that, contrary to feeling like they needed to defend one of the church's practices (which seemed like you were doing), many things she read were that people were touched by the compassion of the catholics.

So all that goes to show why some of us found a disconnct and were not quite sure if you honestly felt touched or if you were just trying to score points.

I was sincere in my expression of appreciation. And I was sincere in pointing out that the Mormon practice of doing ordinance work for the dead, altruistic at heart, is comparable in some respects. 

Thanks for your “help.” 

This conversation is finished. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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