Thinking Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I personally am not opposed to the general authorities receiving money for their service. They work full time and everybody needs food, clothing, and a place to live. I AM critical of the semantics used which make the money received sound like it's a lot less than it really is. Phrases like modest living allowance are used to describe the income. If the responses on this thread are any indication, many faithful LDS are in favor of the general authorities receiving a healthy (my word) paycheck for their service. Would the Church risk losing members if the salaries of the general authorities were easily accessible? 2 Link to comment
Jeanne Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 38 minutes ago, Thinking said: I personally am not opposed to the general authorities receiving money for their service. They work full time and everybody needs food, clothing, and a place to live. I AM critical of the semantics used which make the money received sound like it's a lot less than it really is. Phrases like modest living allowance are used to describe the income. If the responses on this thread are any indication, many faithful LDS are in favor of the general authorities receiving a healthy (my word) paycheck for their service. Would the Church risk losing members if the salaries of the general authorities were easily accessible? IMO..the only way the Church could risk losing members by having salaries accessible is by continuing to say that they are unpaid laymen and volunteers...which is what old members still really believe. Link to comment
Gray Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 On 1/8/2018 at 11:43 AM, The Nehor said: I have ‘holy envy’ of the Popemobile. I have more holy envy for the Batmobile: 1 Link to comment
drums12 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Gray said: I have more holy envy for the Batmobile: The '89 Batmobile is by far my favorite. 1 Link to comment
Gray Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, drums12 said: The '89 Batmobile is by far my favorite. It's so the best. Link to comment
Popular Post carbon dioxide Posted January 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Thinking said: I AM critical of the semantics used which make the money received sound like it's a lot less than it really is. Phrases like modest living allowance are used to describe the income. If the responses on this thread are any indication, many faithful LDS are in favor of the general authorities receiving a healthy (my word) paycheck for their service. All things considered, I think it is quite modest based on one simple fact. There is NO retirement plan for apostles. Usually people work and make a lot of money and eventually retire and live off their money and do the things they want to do. For an Apostle, you work until the day you die or are long as you are able to work. Most people will not choose this path even if it offers them a good check. A doctor might make a million a year but eventually they want to retire and do other things. 5 Link to comment
kiwi57 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Jeanne said: IMO..the only way the Church could risk losing members by having salaries accessible is by continuing to say that they are unpaid laymen and volunteers...which is what old members still really believe. The only way to "continue to say" something is to first start to say it. So, where and when was it actually said? Link to comment
Jeanne Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 13 hours ago, kiwi57 said: The only way to "continue to say" something is to first start to say it. So, where and when was it actually said? always...it was very much a part of dialogue when we ever discussed the difference between the LDS church and others. Link to comment
kiwi57 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Jeanne said: always...it was very much a part of dialogue when we ever discussed the difference between the LDS church and others. CFR please, Jeanne. I'm looking for something in writing from an official Church source, or something in a Conference talk claiming that General Authorities were "unpaid laymen and volunteers." Rumours don't count. Link to comment
Jeanne Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 hours ago, kiwi57 said: CFR please, Jeanne. I'm looking for something in writing from an official Church source, or something in a Conference talk claiming that General Authorities were "unpaid laymen and volunteers." Rumours don't count. Don't ask for a CFR...it was always discussed around my ward..home..and teachings. One of the big differences between the LDS church and others was leaders were not paid a direct salary. You know this...! Link to comment
kiwi57 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Don't ask for a CFR...it was always discussed around my ward..home..and teachings. One of the big differences between the LDS church and others was leaders were not paid a direct salary. You know this...! I know perfectly well that my bishop, and your bishop, and every other bishop in the Church is an unpaid lay volunteer. I also know that my stake president, and your stake president, and every other stake president in the Church is an unpaid lay volunteer. I also know that, out of these thousands of unpaid lay volunteers, a very tiny minority are shoulder-tapped and asked to give up their careers and serve the Lord full time; for which, they are financially compensated. I've known this since I was a teenager, which is rather a long time ago. So if you're unable to substantiate your claim that the Church has described the GA's as unpaid volunteers, I think we can take that as refuted. 2 Link to comment
Jeanne Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, kiwi57 said: I know perfectly well that my bishop, and your bishop, and every other bishop in the Church is an unpaid lay volunteer. I also know that my stake president, and your stake president, and every other stake president in the Church is an unpaid lay volunteer. I also know that, out of these thousands of unpaid lay volunteers, a very tiny minority are shoulder-tapped and asked to give up their careers and serve the Lord full time; for which, they are financially compensated. I've known this since I was a teenager, which is rather a long time ago. So if you're unable to substantiate your claim that the Church has described the GA's as unpaid volunteers, I think we can take that as refuted. Fine...your need to be right far exceeds my need to prove you wrong. I just really don't care. I made an observation that was IMO based on my experience. Link to comment
Popular Post Danzo Posted January 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 12, 2018 36 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Fine...your need to be right far exceeds my need to prove you wrong. I just really don't care. I made an observation that was IMO based on my experience. It Sounds like you had the impression growing up that General Authorities were unpaid volunteers (in the financial sense). Later you found out that they weren't. My question is, why does this new piece of information bother you? Was this the first time you found out something you previously thought you knew was wrong? Did you ever think much about it? I mean, these people travel all of the time and don't work full time jobs. Either they are independently wealthy or they receive some support from someone. While Some of them may be independently wealthy, I know many of them didn't have those kind of jobs. How did you actually think they ate and paid the rent? 5 Link to comment
Josh Khinder Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 On 1/7/2018 at 3:42 PM, JLHPROF said: If true, who cares? Ridiculous waste of time. At least it's not an anti hit piece. Whatever this questionable site is they provide net worth on lots of people. So Pres. Monson was relatively wealthy. Is there some reason he shouldn't be? Mormon leaders deny they don't get paid so yes Link to comment
Jeanne Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Danzo said: It Sounds like you had the impression growing up that General Authorities were unpaid volunteers (in the financial sense). Later you found out that they weren't. My question is, why does this new piece of information bother you? Was this the first time you found out something you previously thought you knew was wrong? Did you ever think much about it? I mean, these people travel all of the time and don't work full time jobs. Either they are independently wealthy or they receive some support from someone. While Some of them may be independently wealthy, I know many of them didn't have those kind of jobs. How did you actually think they ate and paid the rent? It doesn't bother me really. I am just saying that it has been a perception (IMO) of a lot of older members that all leaders were relatively unpaid. I have found out a lot of things that I previously thought was wrong...this is why I resigned.. Link to comment
Tacenda Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) On 1/10/2018 at 6:02 PM, carbon dioxide said: All things considered, I think it is quite modest based on one simple fact. There is NO retirement plan for apostles. Usually people work and make a lot of money and eventually retire and live off their money and do the things they want to do. For an Apostle, you work until the day you die or are long as you are able to work. Most people will not choose this path even if it offers them a good check. A doctor might make a million a year but eventually they want to retire and do other things. I'm glad that there is the emeritus status for those that would be better off retired for health or other reasons. I wish the apostles had that choice readily offered. But I don't know how it all works. I just wonder how many would love to be able to retire. Kind of feels like imprisonment, but I'm coming from a whole different mindset than most on here. Edited January 12, 2018 by Tacenda Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Tacenda said: Kind of feels like imprisonment, but I'm coming from a whole different mindset than most on here. Oddly, I've never considered serving the Lord and fellowman as a kind of punishment one needs to escape from. 2 Link to comment
Jeanne Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I'm glad that there is the emeritus status for those that would be better off retired for health or other reasons. I wish the apostles had that choice readily offered. But I don't know how it all works. I just wonder how many would love to be able to retire. Kind of feels like imprisonment, but I'm coming from a whole different mindset than most on here. I agree I realize that tis is basically a kkind of lifetime commitment and certainly not an easy to walk away from for any reason. I feel for them in this respect. If I thought I had to work at Walmart until I die...I would be dead.. Link to comment
Tacenda Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Oddly, I've never considered serving the Lord and fellowman as a kind of punishment one needs to escape from. Well, like I said, I'm coming from a whole different mindset. You truly are a standout LDS Hamba. You love the work, maybe if I loved it like you do, I wouldn't feel this way. But these gentlemen are way up there in age, and I'm sure get so tired. Link to comment
katherine the great Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I would NEVER buy a Mercedes. However, I would definitely buy a Tesla if I had the money. I totally believe that a good car is a good investment. 1 Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: You love the work, maybe if I loved it like you do, I wouldn't feel this way. I think you've hit on an important point. One of my mates recently posted a question on Facebook about the purpose of life. I suggested that my understanding includes learning to know for ourselves from personal experience what creates lasting happiness and what doesn't ... and then learning to love the former. I have found in my life that the knowledge doesn't always engender the love, and this has been the specific reality that has most developed my faith in Christ and His atonement. In many cases, I can change some of my behaviour as an act of discipline or self-will. But I've never been able to change my desires on my own. That, to me, is the 'mighty change of heart' spoken of in the scriptures: when the Saviour alters us so that we love what He loves. Quote But these gentlemen are way up there in age, and I'm sure get so tired. I suspect they feel perpetually 'heavy laden'. I sincerely doubt they would wish to give up the one thing that 'gives them rest'. Edited January 12, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan 2 Link to comment
Popular Post Stargazer Posted January 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 12, 2018 On 1/7/2018 at 11:11 PM, Marcelo said: The site below informs that Thomas S Monson had bought a new Lexus car of 90K USD e owned 3 others luxuries cars with a total net worth of USD 810 K. The information seems crazy to me. Can anyone confirm or deny this information: https://finapp.co.in/thomas-s-monson-net-worth/ Thanks! Marcelo, I could put together a website just as fancy looking as this and claim whatever I wanted, regardless of facts. You actually have Brazilian members who are upset about the information? Better look out, because when Elder Nelson becomes President of the Church, no doubt his net worth will astonish and amaze people everywhere. Let's see. This information comes from a commercial company in India. Home of call centers -- and last week we got about five calls from there claiming to be Microsoft concerned about malware on our computer. Looking at their website they have an entire section dedicated to wealth assessments for various famous people. There is no way of knowing how much of their information is true, and I'm not impressed by their claim that that they have researched all these people. I checked out some samples, including Donald Trump, Newt Gingrich, and a few others. I note that much of the biographical information in every case is from Wikipedia. Wording on much of everything is in somewhat stilted English, and appears to have been generated by some kind of data processing software. Most but not all articles have this sentence in the section on cars: "[Celebrity Name] owns few of the best luxury cars in the world." The website as a whole contains a plethora of various kinds of information and every page is covered in advertisements. There is no indication on this website who is behind it, but a person named Pratap Reddy owns the domain registration, and the domain was created in 2016 using GoDaddy. We could email him and ask him about his information, since his email address is given in the domain registration. Also his phone number. The website is hosted by Cloudflare, a US-based web hosting service that is fairly prominent and offers hosting plans starting at free and going up to enterprise -- they host for many individuals and companies, big and small. Examine this page: https://finapp.co.in/ipcc-failed-9-attempts/ and this one https://finapp.co.in/cma-final-exam-form/. Every single page on this site is designed to attract visitors seeking information on various unrelated subjects, such as financial licensing exams, chemical engineering exams, information on Indian cell-phone companies and their plans, Indian laws on corporations, and so on. My assessment of this website is that it is designed and intended to attract visitors from Google and other search engines for the purpose of showing them advertising and earning money based on that. They seem to be using Google Adwords to a large extent. Advertising on pages does not seem to have anything to do with a page's content, but in my case at least to be purely based on a visitor's recent Amazon searches. I will say that a lot of work went into this site, but I doubt the accuracy of the data regarding wealth, which probably originated from some other source, or was made up on the spot. No serious financial firm would register a domain under an individual's name, and then not protect the information by paying a little extra fee to mask who owned the registration -- and give a Gmail address for contact, for crying out loud. The International Business Times would seem to be a somewhat more reliable source of information, and their numbers except for salary, seem nowhere near the amounts in the finapp article. The only Monson-owned property they indicate is worth in the neighborhood of 350K. My crappy home in Olympia, Washington is worth 250K. Yep, the man was extremely rich, for sure. $12 million dollars net worth? Poppycock. 6 Link to comment
Raingirl Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 17 hours ago, Josh Khinder said: Mormon leaders deny they don't get paid so yes Your comment makes no sense. No surprise there. Link to comment
Thinking Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, kiwi57 said: CFR please, Jeanne. I'm looking for something in writing from an official Church source, or something in a Conference talk claiming that General Authorities were "unpaid laymen and volunteers." Rumours don't count. Hugh W. Pinnock made a statement in April 1980 General Conference that does not differentiate between general authorities and lay clegy. Quote Consider these additional aspects of the restored Church: a great women’s program involving in meaningful ways over 400,000 of our sisters who are leading and teaching in various organizations; the Aaronic Priesthood and the Melchizedek Priesthood, which involve the men and boys in a multiplicity of powerful and helpful ways; worship services on the first day of the week; holy temples where eternal marriage and other ordinances are performed, including baptism for the dead; a worldwide missionary system wherein 30,000 men and women serve; baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; an unpaid clergy (“freely ye have received, freely give” [Matt. 10:8]); teachings that stress the redeeming and positive in life; and an extensive welfare program to assist the poor and needy in dignity and love. The list goes on and on. I could not find any general conference talk that discussed the "modest living allowance" of the general authorities. On the LDS Newsroom page there is a blog about "The Church's Unpaid Clergy." I could not find a blog about the "modest living allowance." There are some paragraphs in some lessons that mention the "modest living allowance," Quote In our day, General Authorities of the Church give up their livelihoods to serve full-time, so they receive a modest living allowance—enough for them to support themselves and their families. Link IMO more people know about the unpaid clergy claim than know about the GA stipend. Edited January 12, 2018 by Thinking Link to comment
kiwi57 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Raingirl said: Your comment makes no sense. No surprise there. Not at all. Josh said (minus the huge font and garish colour) "Mormon leaders deny they don't get paid." In the which, he's absolutely correct. Parse it carefully. Mormon leaders deny that they don't get paid. IOW, if you asked a GA: "Elder B, is it true that you don't get paid?" he'd say, "No." I really don't know if Josh told the truth on purpose (in fact, I rather suspect that he didn't) but his statement is true as it stands. 1 Link to comment
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