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My oldest is 17, and BYU is throwing a wrench in his works. He is our valedictorian and has top test scores. We were going to apply to some Ivies and other elite schools as well, but got sick of applications (and, he says he wouldn't have gone to one of them, anyway, even if accepted. I think his chances were pretty good. We did end up applying to Vanderbilt, though). He has full-rides to two in-state schools (everything: full tuition, plus about $10,000 in grants. He won't have to pay for housing or fees, and will probably have surplus that can go towards his mission). 

The problem is that BYU doesn't notify of acceptance until March 2. We're sure that he will be accepted, but we believe that he will only get a half-tuition scholarship and still have to pay for housing, etc. So, the state schools are a much better deal, and it seems less attractive to wait until March before making a final decision. It would be great to nail down housing and everything beforehand, and waiting in March runs the risk of missing the boat on some of these things. 

We sill have to have the mission deferment conversation with these schools and their admissions and scholarship departments. I'm confident that they will be willing to allow him to resume his lucrative offers either in two years or after one year of school. But, maybe not --- in which case, BYU it is. He would prefer doing a year of college first, but will go on his mission right away if he has to (it may be that schools prefer that your time there be all at once, rather than broken up by a two year intermission).

Another consideration is AP credit. At one school, he starts with 30 hours of college credit from AP tests, and in another, 24. In other words, he begins freshman year as an academic sophomore. BYU only offers elective credit for AP tests, essentially (the other schools let them fulfill freshman English, history, economics, etc. --- actual core classes). 

My big question is this: Can one pay deposits at multiple schools to formally accept and enroll, knowing that at a later time, they will renege and collapse down to one school? In other words, could he pay deposits at UofA, NAU, *and* BYU when the time comes to hold his spots and accept his offers with all three, even though he will obviously only be attending one of them come August? The offers are so good for the other two, that it seems good to accept both for now (we would be out $350 per for housing deposits). Or, does accepting an offer from one de facto "de-comit" from others? 

Any experience or knowledge about this process is appreciated! We're in uncharted waters for our family.

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Go with the best offer (high AP credit, full bore scholarships, etc.).  Your boy sounds very mature for his age, and would likely do well in a non-Mormon school.  That will stand him in good stead in the future.  Hugh Nibley was educated entirely in the Univ of California system, and so have a number of my friends -- greatly to their long-term advantage as scholars. Having to contend with the real world will be good for him in the long run.

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I didn't hear you talk any about his academic interests. On the top of my priority list would be the best academic school for my primary interests. Some schools are better for liberal arts, some better for engineering, computer science, medicine, etc. If he doesn't know what he wants to do yet, then it would probably fall to the best financial package combined with good overall academic program, so he can poke around until he decides what he really wants to pursue. He can probably accept two if he still can't decide, but out of courtesy assuming he is deferring to all of them, at some future point I would write to one and decline. The best schools always fill their classes, and can't really justify indefinitely holding space for someone who is not going to attend.

I will say this. My little brother went to Tulane which I warned him was a party school. He didn't like it, and applied and went to BYU which he loved. That was the best of his college experience - he went to Cleveland for grad school in podiatry, and simply endured it. Later he regretted going, although his experience allowed him and his cousin to invent a new medical appliance, and start their own company, so in the end I guess it worked out for him. He now pretty much lives in his dream house. If he can at all, I would recommend visiting the primary schools he is interested in, if he cannot make up his mind. He might even try sitting in some classes for a day or so.

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BYU has more smaller scholarships than you can shake a stick at. My daughter applied for new ones every year and paid for her own schooling and boarding. 

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Depending on his personality and goals in family life, the social scene could be as important or even more important than the academic.   I second Rev's suggestion to visit the schools.  Definitely check out the Institutes.

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Money isn’t everything. Finding an atmosphere on campus that your child fits in with should not be discounted. I will not send any of the rest of my kids to our states schools. I had no choice with one and it was the final nail in the coffin for her activity. Your son most likely would be fine and BYU has negatives too but I would visit the schools and pray hard about this decision. BYU is tough with AP credits.

I don’t want my very innocent, faithful daughter exposed to the campus lifestyle in my state. She would not fit in. She is headed to Utah State with a 4 year scholarship but no housing money and it is tricky to fit the residency requirement in with mission plans. She fell in love with Utah State at engineering camp and refused to apply anywhere else. 

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3 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Money isn’t everything. Finding an atmosphere on campus that your child fits in with should not be discounted. I will not send any of the rest of my kids to our states schools. I had no choice with one and it was the final nail in the coffin for her activity. Your son most likely would be fine and BYU has negatives too but I would visit the schools and pray hard about this decision. BYU is tough with AP credits.

I don’t want my very innocent, faithful daughter exposed to the campus lifestyle in my state. She would not fit in. She is headed to Utah State with a 4 year scholarship but no housing money and it is tricky to fit the residency requirement in with mission plans. She fell in love with Utah State at engineering camp and refused to apply anywhere else. 

How long does she have to,stay in state to qualify?

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Calm said:

How long does she have to,stay in state to qualify?

12 continuous months...not to be interrupted by mission service. Her scholarship only covers one year of out of state tuition so she has to get in-state tuition for years 2, 3, and 4. If she chooses to serve a mission she would be eligible to leave in September of what would have been her 2nd year of college. She would be almost 20 and if she chooses a mission, it will all work out. :)

I found attending summer camps at colleges was a good way for a student to preview the campuses, and majors while they were in high school. She rejected architecture and the University of Utah after a summer camp but fell in love with Utah State and engineering. 

Edited by bsjkki

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7 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Money isn’t everything. Finding an atmosphere on campus that your child fits in with should not be discounted. I will not send any of the rest of my kids to our states schools. I had no choice with one and it was the final nail in the coffin for her activity. Your son most likely would be fine and BYU has negatives too but I would visit the schools and pray hard about this decision. BYU is tough with AP credits.

I don’t want my very innocent, faithful daughter exposed to the campus lifestyle in my state. She would not fit in. She is headed to Utah State with a 4 year scholarship but no housing money and it is tricky to fit the residency requirement in with mission plans. She fell in love with Utah State at engineering camp and refused to apply anywhere else. 

My oldest is at USU in his first year after a two year mission. Right now he too is pursuing engineering. Maybe they should meet up! So far he has not been having much luck with girls there. He broke up with a local girl, and I don't think he was real serious with his pre-mission girlfriend who is now on her mission. He wants to date active members.

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3 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

My oldest is at USU in his first year after a two year mission. Right now he too is pursuing engineering. Maybe they should meet up! So far he has not been having much luck with girls there. He broke up with a local girl, and I don't think he was real serious with his pre-mission girlfriend who is now on her mission. He wants to date active members.

She will be there in the fall...she sent in her scholarship acceptance yesterday. Go Aggies! 

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2 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

She will be there in the fall...she sent in her scholarship acceptance yesterday. Go Aggies! 

He is tall and handsome if she likes that type... ;) I spent some good time with him over the Christmas holidays, and he had some powerful spiritual experiences while on his mission. He is now quite strong in his testimony.

And...oh yeah.... go Aggies,  beat up BYU again!

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25 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Money isn’t everything. Finding an atmosphere on campus that your child fits in with should not be discounted. I will not send any of the rest of my kids to our states schools. I had no choice with one and it was the final nail in the coffin for her activity. Your son most likely would be fine and BYU has negatives too but I would visit the schools and pray hard about this decision. BYU is tough with AP credits.

I don’t want my very innocent, faithful daughter exposed to the campus lifestyle in my state. She would not fit in. She is headed to Utah State with a 4 year scholarship but no housing money and it is tricky to fit the residency requirement in with mission plans. She fell in love with Utah State at engineering camp and refused to apply anywhere else. 

[Very good and helpful comments to all! Thank you!]

I think the highlighted part above is key. If it "feels" right and "it," that is an extremely important consideration. BYU is a known quantity for us, and we have been *very* impressed with NAU and UofA (ASU, not at all. Our experience with them hasn't been good, even though they also offered a full tuition. They are kind of too big at 75,000+ students). 

We're not worried about our son in a potentially non-LDS environment. NAU has two student wards, and UofA has many more than that. There would be lots of exposure to LDS kids at either. At NAU, he would also live in and be part of the honors college (brand new facilities, including dorms). His cousin also has a full tuition and has also been accepted into the honors college, so they would room together. He has a good chance to also get the Baird Scholarship at UofA, which would give him an additional $3,000 (that he doesn't need, but I think it goes into his pocket, which is great for the mission). :) 

Ultimately, it will be his decision, and he has experience with and is capable of receiving and discerning guidance through prayer. 

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Having a roommate you know already and share standards with whatever they are would be a huge help.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, rongo said:

My oldest is 17, and BYU is throwing a wrench in his works. He is our valedictorian and has top test scores. We were going to apply to some Ivies and other elite schools as well, but got sick of applications (and, he says he wouldn't have gone to one of them, anyway, even if accepted. I think his chances were pretty good. We did end up applying to Vanderbilt, though). He has full-rides to two in-state schools (everything: full tuition, plus about $10,000 in grants. He won't have to pay for housing or fees, and will probably have surplus that can go towards his mission). 

The problem is that BYU doesn't notify of acceptance until March 2. We're sure that he will be accepted, but we believe that he will only get a half-tuition scholarship and still have to pay for housing, etc. So, the state schools are a much better deal, and it seems less attractive to wait until March before making a final decision. It would be great to nail down housing and everything beforehand, and waiting in March runs the risk of missing the boat on some of these things. 

We sill have to have the mission deferment conversation with these schools and their admissions and scholarship departments. I'm confident that they will be willing to allow him to resume his lucrative offers either in two years or after one year of school. But, maybe not --- in which case, BYU it is. He would prefer doing a year of college first, but will go on his mission right away if he has to (it may be that schools prefer that your time there be all at once, rather than broken up by a two year intermission).

Another consideration is AP credit. At one school, he starts with 30 hours of college credit from AP tests, and in another, 24. In other words, he begins freshman year as an academic sophomore. BYU only offers elective credit for AP tests, essentially (the other schools let them fulfill freshman English, history, economics, etc. --- actual core classes). 

My big question is this: Can one pay deposits at multiple schools to formally accept and enroll, knowing that at a later time, they will renege and collapse down to one school? In other words, could he pay deposits at UofA, NAU, *and* BYU when the time comes to hold his spots and accept his offers with all three, even though he will obviously only be attending one of them come August? The offers are so good for the other two, that it seems good to accept both for now (we would be out $350 per for housing deposits). Or, does accepting an offer from one de facto "de-comit" from others? 

Any experience or knowledge about this process is appreciated! We're in uncharted waters for our family.

I've looked into this a few places and thought you might find this posting interesting. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/college-admissions/double-depositing-delaying-the.html "

What many of these students and their parents don’t know is that double depositing is a violation of their responsibilities as established by the National Association for College Admission Counseling (NACAC). The reason many of them don’t know they are in violation is that they have never heard about this or any other “responsibility” and have no idea who or what NACAC is. But students need to understand that double-depositing is wrong.

Colleges dislike double depositing because the practice creates an enormous amount of uncertainty about the size of their incoming freshman classes. They can’t be certain about the number of students who are going to show up for the fall because they can’t be certain that each student who has made a deposit will attend.

Since many colleges don’t require payment of the first semester’s tuition until shortly before the start of the academic year, schools can be left with beds to fill and budget shortfalls that they did not anticipate. Some colleges may find themselves over-enrolled and with a shortage of housing for students. Neither situation is a happy one. In order to prevent double depositing, some colleges actually check enrollment lists at other schools for offenders. 

A college that discovers a double depositor is within its rights to withdraw that individual’s offer of admission. 

One more...https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/applications/ethics  Housing seems to be the only downside of waiting until after you hear from BYU. Can you pay a deposit for housing without accepting admission or scholarships?

Edited by bsjkki
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24 minutes ago, rongo said:

[Very good and helpful comments to all! Thank you!]

I think the highlighted part above is key. If it "feels" right and "it," that is an extremely important consideration. BYU is a known quantity for us, and we have been *very* impressed with NAU and UofA (ASU, not at all. Our experience with them hasn't been good, even though they also offered a full tuition. They are kind of too big at 75,000+ students). 

We're not worried about our son in a potentially non-LDS environment. NAU has two student wards, and UofA has many more than that. There would be lots of exposure to LDS kids at either. At NAU, he would also live in and be part of the honors college (brand new facilities, including dorms). His cousin also has a full tuition and has also been accepted into the honors college, so they would room together. He has a good chance to also get the Baird Scholarship at UofA, which would give him an additional $3,000 (that he doesn't need, but I think it goes into his pocket, which is great for the mission). :) 

Ultimately, it will be his decision, and he has experience with and is capable of receiving and discerning guidance through prayer. 

It is probably too late for this to be relevant, but I recently learned that Michigan State also has a real LDS presence just off campus with a big ol building. It seems the Church has been working at having a presence at several colleges around the country to give LDS members other options than BYU. Michigan State is also a very good school. NAU and UA sound like he is living in Arizona, right? Out of those, personally I would probably go with UA - it has a great reputation. But make sure he chooses for himself. Michigan State would be no better, colder and further. If he likes basketball at all, UA is definitely the right choice!

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I haven’t read all of the responses but I don’t see any problem with paying multiple deposits and then backing out. The schools wouldn’t be communicating with each other.

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2 minutes ago, Judd said:

I haven’t read all of the responses but I don’t see any problem with paying multiple deposits and then backing out. The schools wouldn’t be communicating with each other.

except apparently they do...which is new to me.  i thought double depositing was no big deal; schools would like the extra money and they would just move the next up...but then I wasn't paying attention to when final confirmation was required.  Learnt something new today.

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Posted (edited)

Utah State doesn't care if you pay the deposit and drop before the May 1st deadline. I would check to see if your school options feel the same way. I never realized how important the May 1 deadline was.https://www.usu.edu/admissions/callingblitz/soar

https://students.asu.edu/freshman/deposit   https://nau.edu/admission/freshmen-next-steps/

Edited by bsjkki
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Calm said:

except apparently they do...which is new to me.  i thought double depositing was no big deal; schools would like the extra money and they would just move the next up...but then I wasn't paying attention to when final confirmation was required.  Learnt something new today.

How are they communicating? I remember people applying to medical school and people having >$1,000 deposits they were putting down on schools before hearing back from others. They didn’t track it then and it seems unfathomable that they’d track it now unless there was some nationalized database that would be an absolute waste of money. But hey, people and bureaucracies have a knack for wasting other peoples’ (and their own) money. 

Edited by Judd

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Posted (edited)

Did you read bsjkki's post?

"Since many colleges don’t require payment of the first semester’s tuition until shortly before the start of the academic year, schools can be left with beds to fill and budget shortfalls that they did not anticipate. Some colleges may find themselves over-enrolled and with a shortage of housing for students. Neither situation is a happy one. In order to prevent double depositing, some colleges actually check enrollment lists at other schools for offenders. 

A college that discovers a double depositor is within its rights to withdraw that individual’s offer of admission."

-------

It would be relatively easy for schools to share enrollment lists of schools they share the same market for and have exchanged access to enrollment lists to encourage students to not double deposit and check names as they process them.

Edited by Calm

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4 hours ago, bsjkki said:

I've looked into this a few places and thought you might find this posting interesting. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/college-admissions/double-depositing-delaying-the.html "

What many of these students and their parents don’t know is that double depositing is a violation of their responsibilities as established by the National Association for College Admission Counseling (NACAC). The reason many of them don’t know they are in violation is that they have never heard about this or any other “responsibility” and have no idea who or what NACAC is. But students need to understand that double-depositing is wrong.

Colleges dislike double depositing because the practice creates an enormous amount of uncertainty about the size of their incoming freshman classes. They can’t be certain about the number of students who are going to show up for the fall because they can’t be certain that each student who has made a deposit will attend.

Since many colleges don’t require payment of the first semester’s tuition until shortly before the start of the academic year, schools can be left with beds to fill and budget shortfalls that they did not anticipate. Some colleges may find themselves over-enrolled and with a shortage of housing for students. Neither situation is a happy one. In order to prevent double depositing, some colleges actually check enrollment lists at other schools for offenders. 

A college that discovers a double depositor is within its rights to withdraw that individual’s offer of admission. 

One more...https://professionals.collegeboard.org/guidance/applications/ethics  Housing seems to be the only downside of waiting until after you hear from BYU. Can you pay a deposit for housing without accepting admission or scholarships?

A violation of their responsibilities as defined by NACAC? I can only assume that is a Guantanamo level offense.

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Look into what campus your son would specifically be on as well, not just which university. I assumed that my daughter would just be at ASU Tempe. However, while her college is in Tempe, her major is in Phoenix. The two campuses have a different feel to them. 

She most wanted to go BYU-I, but they didn't have her major. Neither does NAU. 

She fought going to school at ASU, but after praying about it she flet tat was,where she felt Heavenly Father wanted her to be. Still she wasn't happy. I finally talked with her how Heavenly Father doesn't want her to be unhappy the entire 4 years so we took another tour of campus on our own. We also visited the institute building etc. She finally felt peaceful and happy about her answers. Not saying your son should go to ASU by any means. Just saying to remember to make things a matter of prayer. 

 

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12 hours ago, rongo said:

My oldest is 17, and BYU is throwing a wrench in his works. He is our valedictorian and has top test scores. We were going to apply to some Ivies and other elite schools as well, but got sick of applications (and, he says he wouldn't have gone to one of them, anyway, even if accepted. I think his chances were pretty good. We did end up applying to Vanderbilt, though). He has full-rides to two in-state schools (everything: full tuition, plus about $10,000 in grants. He won't have to pay for housing or fees, and will probably have surplus that can go towards his mission). 

The problem is that BYU doesn't notify of acceptance until March 2. We're sure that he will be accepted, but we believe that he will only get a half-tuition scholarship and still have to pay for housing, etc. So, the state schools are a much better deal, and it seems less attractive to wait until March before making a final decision. It would be great to nail down housing and everything beforehand, and waiting in March runs the risk of missing the boat on some of these things. 

We sill have to have the mission deferment conversation with these schools and their admissions and scholarship departments. I'm confident that they will be willing to allow him to resume his lucrative offers either in two years or after one year of school. But, maybe not --- in which case, BYU it is. He would prefer doing a year of college first, but will go on his mission right away if he has to (it may be that schools prefer that your time there be all at once, rather than broken up by a two year intermission).

Another consideration is AP credit. At one school, he starts with 30 hours of college credit from AP tests, and in another, 24. In other words, he begins freshman year as an academic sophomore. BYU only offers elective credit for AP tests, essentially (the other schools let them fulfill freshman English, history, economics, etc. --- actual core classes). 

My big question is this: Can one pay deposits at multiple schools to formally accept and enroll, knowing that at a later time, they will renege and collapse down to one school? In other words, could he pay deposits at UofA, NAU, *and* BYU when the time comes to hold his spots and accept his offers with all three, even though he will obviously only be attending one of them come August? The offers are so good for the other two, that it seems good to accept both for now (we would be out $350 per for housing deposits). Or, does accepting an offer from one de facto "de-comit" from others? 

Any experience or knowledge about this process is appreciated! We're in uncharted waters for our family.

In answer to your big question: I worked for BYU a while ago in admissions, so I'm familiar with how they do things (though I would recommend talking to them anyways because my info could be out of date). You can't get refunded the application fees for the BYU schools, though they are a one-time fee, so if you reapply in the future you don't have to pay it again. Accepting your admission doesn't involve paying any money, and you can always change your mind later. You don't get charged tuition until you actually sign up for classes, and if you were to drop the classes before the add/drop deadline (a week into the semester), you get a full refund on tuition. I think this is pretty similar to how most schools operate, but of course other colleges could do it differently. I'm not sure about housing deposits since I didn't work in that.

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11 hours ago, RevTestament said:

It is probably too late for this to be relevant, but I recently learned that Michigan State also has a real LDS presence just off campus with a big ol building. It seems the Church has been working at having a presence at several colleges around the country to give LDS members other options than BYU. Michigan State is also a very good school. NAU and UA sound like he is living in Arizona, right? Out of those, personally I would probably go with UA - it has a great reputation. But make sure he chooses for himself. Michigan State would be no better, colder and further. If he likes basketball at all, UA is definitely the right choice!

My uncle was president of the Michigan Lansing Mission, so we know Michigan St. very well (the mission home is not far from campus, and many missionaries served in and around the campus). 

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11 hours ago, bsjkki said:

I've looked into this a few places and thought you might find this posting interesting.

Holy smokes! That's the answer to my big question! Great find, bsjkki!

If double-depositing can be grounds for withdrawing offers, then that means he gets one shot to make his decision. Which is what we thought . . . 

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