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So if you were called over a period of 8 years in let us say a certain calling which you had reservations about but accepted anyway, at what point would you say no to future callings in the same certain calling area? If you said no to such a calling and then received a similar calling a few months later, what would you think? Not enough adults to call or inspiration coming back again? In all honesty when Auxiliary leaders make recommendations for certain callings in ward council/correlation mtg, is there further prayer/consideration/Spiritual guidance by Ward Leaders? I believe so and I hope so; just seems strange to get a calling quite similar to one I said no to a few months earlier.
I've heard that Sunbeams coteacher in a former ward I was in received seven no's in response to callings and I can't judge anyone who turned it down as I wasn't part of those callings' issuance. A friend of mine in college turned down a Primary call since she was a homemaker with three boys and said she needed a break.
The non-linear part makes sense; we all don't progress in the same order of callings...BUT it seems odd to me to have received such a similar calling in multiple wards over many years, in a chartered organization that I do not support.
I recently attended the Spirit of Dialogue conference at UVU and they are celebrating their 50th anniversary. https://www.dialoguejournal.com/50th-anniversary/spirit-of-dialogue-conference/
It was a great meeting with wonderful guests. One of the highlights for me was the last session, a discussion between Marlin Jensen (former church historian and emeritus status GA) and Gregory Prince. The audio is posted at the above link. He said something that I've been pondering about ever since the meeting. In talking about the essays and the challenges that the information age presents to members he said:
The part in bold is what I've been struggling to understand. He mentioned meeting with many people over the years who're struggling with their membership. Why is belief so important to him, and why is it a choice? Why is it more important than who you choose as your spouse? Why is belief the most important choice we will ever make in this life? I don't get it.
I have some thoughts, but I wanted to ask to the group. Thanks
By Bill "Papa" Lee
Over the years I have seen many fall way from the Gospel. Some because of writings that were proven false, Church history, apathy and disillusion to name a few. Lately over translation issues and historical accounts of these methods. Also in the past, articles and books later debunked. But as far as such things in the past, which have been debunked, generations now have no idea of their of anything to do with Mormonism, except the anger that has been passed down. I was in Nauvoo on vaction back in 1994, were non-members who found out I was Mormon told me that outside of Nauvoo (the old city site) I was told not to mention it. I went on a trip to Missouri with friends, my wife and I had to go to a time share sales pitch and decided to purchase a trial package...afterwards the lady doing the presentation asked what Church did we attend, along with other questions. She did so because she was very religious and I am sure she wanted to make sure we were "saved", which was very nice. When we told her we were LDS, she got quiet and whispered, "Don't tell anyone around here".
I mention this, because many in the ant-Mormon world have often said to me that there is no way that our leaders truly believe that the claims of Joesph Smith. I have found the opposite to be true via many examples. The Church from the beginning have been a missionary centered Church. Nearly ever revelation Joseph has see and put down n paper were witnessed by others. From the beginning we have been a Temple building Church and continue to be so dispite the cost and sacrifice. Emma was with Joseph when he retrieved the plates and hid them until he could go back and retrieve them. She saw them when he brought them hope...although covered, she acted a scribe for a time and testify that she felt them and notes that she could feel and lift one from another the leaflets. Other scribes the same, noting that Joesph used the U&T as well as the seer stone. Were the plates a fraud, Joseph would not have had Hyrum read from the Book of Mormon as he awaited death. Others saw the U&T, sword of Laban, the Liahona. When Joseph was having issues with Emma and polygamy (a revelation he had received in 1832, Hyrum asked him to use the U&T to write it and he would take it to Emma. This was while n Nauvoo, and Joseph said there was no need because he knew by heart. This is why we know that even though the plates were taken by Moroni, that others items were left behind. Others I Nauvoo witnessed many miracles, and why they gave up all to travel west, losing family members all along the way.
Joseph F Smith (Hyrum's,son) received revelation that is now D&C 138, received October 3, 1918, which is a marvel and a must read. President Snow who saw and met the Saviour in the Salt Lake Temple) hope I got the names and dates correct...working on a memory that gets worse everyday. Wilford Wooduff receiving recelation of polygamy, Spencer W Kimball on the Priesthood ban, dispite much discord among a number of Apostles. President Gordon B Hinkley (who I miss so much) who with his wit and wisdom could make you feel the power of,the Holy Spirit until tears would fall like rain. A side not: I met President Kimball and President Hunter face to face (purely by accident) and Elder Ballard. We were,heading to New York to see some Mormon historical sites, just before Ohio while reading an Ensign, I asked my wife and we took a vote to g west to Nauvoo. Not only did I meet these men of God, but being on the local TV news with President Hinkley and Elder Ballard..."too cool". Another time, I attended the annual Christmas devotional the tickets we sold out, so a very nice brother told us to go to,a certain window,mye told us they always keep back a few for visiting dignitaries. Sure enough, I got four tickets. My family ending up,on the 2nd row sitting behind the entire 12 Apostles and wives. Elder Packer was in the seat in front of me, and when I stuck out my hand he gave me a handshake, and the kids with me the GA's with arm reach with my children and wife.
Anyway, on the day President Hinkley died we were having Stake Conference, via satellite. One of the speakers was President Monson, he was apologizing for any wrong he had fear done, by especially to someone he had not seen in decades. He felt bad for not sharing the Gospel while he was in the military, I think. During his talk, he was not the confident speaker he usually is, but looking at his watch and struggling with his words, and his comments. I told my wife, "Something is wrong and he is very upset", as he mentioned so many apologies. Something was wrong, his best friend whom he loved dearly was across the road dying, and he was about to have the weight of the Church on his shoulders. So today, know that our Propher also believes. It is not arrogance, but true faith, true belief, true honor and true alliance to the Faith. As Prophets have said in the past and today..."ye who are weary come home".
Again, due to injury...due to my back, everything I type (99.9%) is on an IPad is while holding it up on my knees while laying down. So please forgive misspellings, punctuation and grammar.
Hello, new to the boards. A little background... I no longer consider myself belonging to any religion and guess if I had to call myself anything I'd say spiritual. I've also lived in Utah all my life and was raised in a Mormon family. I still have a lot of family that is Mormon and some of my best friends are Mormon. I like to discuss religion and I'm not here to offend anyone. If I do that is not my intention. I hope I can give good conversation and something to think about from time to time as I hope to get the same out of anyone else.
To the subject... something from my Mormon days that always bothered me from a pretty young age is about when anyone gives their testimony. Everyone who is familiar with the church knows what is generally said in most people's testimonies. The part I want to bring up is when anyone says (and everyone says this), "I know this church is true" and "I know" this and that is true. This is where the fact vs. faith part comes in. It's technically a lie and breaking a commandment to say, "I know", when it would be appropriate to say, "I believe this church is true" or "I have faith that this church is true". I realize that the Mormon religion isn't the only religion that talks in this way. I've heard pastors, priests, etc. say the same types of things. I've always felt that it's technically a lie to say that no matter how much you believe it in your heart. I'm not saying anyone is wrong for believing what they choose to believe but fact and faith are not the same thing. I think an atheist would be lying to say, "I know there is no God" no matter how much they believe it.
Curious what others think about this. Thoughts, comments?
By Bernard Gui
Believers are challenged by non-believers to give scientific proof that God exists, as if there were some sort of experiment that could be devised that consistently forces God to reveal Himself to whomever tries it. Such an experiment would have to preserve the agency of man. An experiment does exist, but it sets certain conditions that must be met in order for it to succeed. It is described in the parable of the seed in Alma 32:
But can this experiment satisfy the demands of non-believers? The conditions for this experiment to succeed are specified by the missionary Ammon in Alma 26:
Can a person test God without having a sincere and transparent intent to be willing to repent and accept all that follows from discovering God's existence? Is this an experiment non-believers are willing to perform? If not, would someone propose such an experiment that would be acceptable? (Cutting off a head or leg and having God restore it has already been spoken for).