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Senate Tax Bill will hurt Mormon tithe payers

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6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You realize how insane it is to push an article you have not read based on the headline as proof and then ask other people to look it up for you. That is incredibly lazy.

Don’t worry. The Republicans have already announced a slew of planned spending cuts (contravening Trump promises not to touch Medicaid). The malicious part of me hopes it passes. I think it is incredibly bad policy but myself and most of the people I know and care about will be largely unaffected. The demographics that will lose out neatly sync up with the demographics that voted for Trump. It might make me a bad person but reading articles and watching news reports crying over how horrible it is and how much harder life is now when they literally chose it will bring joy and laughter to my shriveled and blackened heart.

As to your CFR I believe these links will clear it up:

http://www.witchcraftandwitches.com/history_medieval.html

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150601092158.htm

http://fairfieldproject.wikidot.com/azathoth-discussion

 

 

 

 

And finally, a short video that may help crystallize what I am saying:

 

 

"You realize how insane it is to push an article you have not read based on the headline as proof and then ask other people to look it up for you. That is incredibly lazy.'

I did read it. I linked it to my facebook and just checked. I can read it again. https://www.facebook.com/darren.zechiel/posts/10210533537125600?pnref=story. I did try to find the article from a different source with no luck. You're complaining about it so try and find it yourself.

"The demographics that will lose out neatly sync up with the demographics that voted for Trump.' - They'll get their comeuppance soon enough. The anti establishment movement won't last long. in fact, party bases formed primarily by protest don't last long. I voted for Trump, will I get hurt?

Now, my CFR please. I'll take it as a kindness for you to provide it. I'm only insisting on standards I've been forced to live by. It's the anti-establishment in me. We don't like elitism. Dungeons and Dragons and Dormammu wannabes don't count. Neither does the poor, depressing affects of global warming on cute mammals who carry around their tiny babies in fanny packs.

Seriously, if youre going to hang out here, please provide it. Thanks.

Edited by Darren10

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9 hours ago, Darren10 said:

"You realize how insane it is to push an article you have not read based on the headline as proof and then ask other people to look it up for you. That is incredibly lazy.'

I did read it. I linked it to my facebook and just checked. I can read it again. https://www.facebook.com/darren.zechiel/posts/10210533537125600?pnref=story. I did try to find the article from a different source with no luck. You're complaining about it so try and find it yourself.

"The demographics that will lose out neatly sync up with the demographics that voted for Trump.' - They'll get their comeuppance soon enough. The anti establishment movement won't last long. in fact, party bases formed primarily by protest don't last long. I voted for Trump, will I get hurt?

Now, my CFR please. I'll take it as a kindness for you to provide it. I'm only insisting on standards I've been forced to live by. It's the anti-establishment in me. We don't like elitism. Dungeons and Dragons and Dormammu wannabes don't count. Neither does the poor, depressing affects of global warming on cute mammals who carry around their tiny babies in fanny packs.

Seriously, if youre going to hang out here, please provide it. Thanks.

“I voted for Trump, will I get hurt?”

We are commanded to live by hope. ;) 

As to your CFR I have no idea what CFR you were taking about but I figured witchcraft, sexually suicidal marsupials, the daemon sultan, and Mario-based existential despair would cover just about any CFR and I am sure it covers yours.

If not, then there is something wrong with you.

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On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 3:31 PM, Gray said:

I do have questions about the surveys and their respondents.  Do we have a statistically valid sample here, or is it a conveniently selected sample.  I have no idea.  Much as lawyers like to shop courtrooms looking for a judge who has a highest likelihood of ruling in their favor, I do wonder about the pool chosen by the journalist in this case.  And the only economists referenced in the survey appear to be academics at universities.  When you consider that decidedly leftist academics are quite overrepresented in our universities. Of course, leftists are perfectly capable of looking at tax plans in a completely objective way, right?

The other thing is the words chosen for the article's title, with "disastrous" being the operative word. When we have seen Democratic senators use extreme language about this bill the passed the senate, such as Nancy Pelosi claiming that it is the worst bill that has ever passed the senate, I wonder.  Has she never heard of the "Fugitive Slave Act"?  I don't think a tax bill could possibly be worse than the FSA.  And she is not the only one using such language.  So when the Forbes writer says "disastrous", what exactly does this mean?  Disastrous for whom?  The Democrats if the tax plan actually works and doesn't result in ruination?

The mainstream media is also going overboard on the bill.  I suggest a view of the video referenced below.  It's about Samantha Bee making funny over the Senate bill, and Steven Crowder addresses her claims and shows that she is completely misrepresenting the points of the bill she addresses.  The kind of misrepresentation is not made by just comedians, but by the politicians who are pearl-clutching because the senate bill, if signed into law, will destroy the county.  When President Kennedy proposed a tax plan back in the 1960s, a tax plan that provided significant cuts, what happened?  Did the country go to hell in a handbasket?  Did the government go into receivership because it didn't bring in enough taxes to keep it running?  Well no.  More tax income was the result, and why? Because the tax plan stimulated the economy and although it was taking a smaller percentage, the economic growth increased the tax base so much that it more than compensated for lower tax rates.  I'm not saying that tax cuts are a cure-all.  You can reduce the rates below the point where the tax receipts support the budget, but you can also raise them to the same point, because the policy causes a drag on the economy.  But who cares?  President Obama once admitted that yes, cutting taxes could cause an increase in tax receipts, but it was more important to be "fair" and soak the rich.  In other words, the Democrat party thinks that taxes exist to punish the rich for making more money than the rest of us.  And apparently funding the government is only secondary. I suppose making this point isn't "to the point" in this case, but I get frustrated over the failure to understand the purpose of government.

Anyway, have a look:

REBUTTAL: Samantha Bee DEAD WRONG on Trump Tax Bill! | Louder With Crowder

Edited by Stargazer

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Final tax plan calculator http://taxplancalculator.com/calc I now do better this year and also do better based on next years numbers/changes. All my children also do better under this plan so I think it must, now, be better for most Americans.

Edited by bsjkki
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Meh, whatever. If the wealthy want to accelerate the growth of the wealth gap and hurry the time the impoverished masses rise in revolution and break into their houses, take their stuff, and eat them who am I to tell them it is a bad idea?

I mean, I will probably tell them anyways. I enjoy a good "I told you so" as much as the next guy.

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Also, if this passes I am paying all of next year’s tithing this month. If the standard deduction doubles itemization will give much less of an advantage.

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37 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Also, if this passes I am paying all of next year’s tithing this month. If the standard deduction doubles itemization will give much less of an advantage.

I would definitely run the numbers and do what works out best for your tax situation. Especially if you can afford to prepay your tithing...not an option for most.

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You're wrong. We won't be hurt at all. Even if everything you said is true, the Lord would just bless us more for the sacrifice we make to pay our tithes

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10 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

You're wrong. We won't be hurt at all. Even if everything you said is true, the Lord would just bless us more for the sacrifice we make to pay our tithes

The Lord blesses us more when we pay more secular taxation than we have to? Is there scripture backing this up? If so I have been doing my taxes wrong FOR YEARS!

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

The Lord blesses us more when we pay more secular taxation than we have to? Is there scripture backing this up? If so I have been doing my taxes wrong FOR YEARS!

He blesses us when we pay tithing. Especially when we sacrifice to do so

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3 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

He blesses us when we pay tithing. Especially when we sacrifice to do so

What does that have to do with me structuring tithing to pay less taxes?

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And of course last minute benefits for rich guys in real estate slip in in the eleventh hour. Who could have predicted that?

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On 11/29/2017 at 12:17 PM, bsjkki said:

But the Republican plan only offsets the elimination of personal exemptions by increasing the standard deduction. This means that households that itemize (and hence do not use the standard deduction) will simply lose their personal exemptions with nothing to offset it.

Get on your hands and knees and thank God that you are earning enough that this is a problem.  Then have or adopt lots of kids to offset your higher taxes, and find out how much the Lord can really bless you.

Edited by cdowis

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56 minutes ago, cdowis said:

Get on your hands and knees and thank God that you are earning enough that this is a problem.  Then have or adopt lots of kids to offset your higher taxes, and find out how much the Lord can really bless you.

I am going to benefit personally. Increasing the standard deduction might remove my ability to itemize but I still end up with a little more money.

I would advise not having or adopting lots of children. We are bequeathing them a lot of debt. Next time a Republican talks in front of you about government fiscal responsibility please punch them in their lying face on my behalf. Thanks.

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5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

 

I would advise not having or adopting lots of children. We are bequeathing them a lot of debt. 

I am thankful that Adam and Eve did not think of the tax and debt consequeces for having children,

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On 12/24/2017 at 4:09 PM, cdowis said:

I am thankful that Adam and Eve did not think of the tax and debt consequeces for having children,

As between the two of them they held the titles of duly appointed Lord of the Earth and duly appointed Mother of all Living there were no such consequences unless they instituted them. ;) 

I am not suggesting people should not have children because things are bad. Just that there is no point in pretending they are not bad.

Edited by The Nehor

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On 11/29/2017 at 10:14 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

No one is suggesting that tithe paying should be affected by whether or not it is tax deductible (straw man argument). But it has been a blessing over the years for many Church members, and I would say they deserve that consideration from government for the collective good that members of the Church do in society. It would be very disappointing if the government now eliminated the charitable deduction and/or the mortgage interest deduction.

No matter, in my opinion.  God has His ways of compensating.

Edited by Meerkat

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7 hours ago, Meerkat said:

No matter, in my opinion.  God has His ways of compensating.

For an individual., the tax deduction might be regarded as one way God compensates.

But as I understand it, the new bill ended up not eliminating the charitable deduction.

Some charities, I suppose, might worry because the doubling of the standard deduction gives people less incentive to itemize. This  might impact  those whose sole incentive for giving to charity is the tax deduction, but I don't see that Mormons typically fall into that category.

 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

For an individual., the tax deduction might be regarded as one way God compensates.

But as I understand it, the new bill ended up not eliminating the charitable deduction.

Some charities, I suppose, might worry because the doubling of the standard deduction gives people less incentive to itemize. This might might impact  those whose sole incentive for giving to charity is the tax deduction, but I don't see that Mormons typically fall into that category.

 

It is a huge deal to most charities. Most middle class and upper middle class will no longer itemize unless they have a lot of deductions such as a ton of interest on their mortgage or very high medical bills.

It is unlikely to hurt much in terms of tithing but I could see a small but significant drop in Fast Offerings and other contributions. I used to always itemize and now I am unlikely to and I have to admit there is a temptation to cut down on Fast Offerings.

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It is a huge deal to most charities. Most middle class and upper middle class will no longer itemize unless they have a lot of deductions such as a ton of interest on their mortgage or very high medical bills.

It is unlikely to hurt much in terms of tithing but I could see a small but significant drop in Fast Offerings and other contributions. I used to always itemize and now I am unlikely to and I have to admit there is a temptation to cut down on Fast Offerings.

Why would there be a temptation to cut down on fast offerings?
Anyone who only pays tithing or fast offerings because of the tax benefits has totally missed the point.
I personally refuse to claim my tithing donations on my taxes.  There is nothing wrong with doing so, but God asked for 10%.  If I pay 10% knowing that I won't actually be out 10% because I'll get a chunk back in tax credit I just have ended up feeling like I didn't really pay my 10%.

 

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1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Why would there be a temptation to cut down on fast offerings?
Anyone who only pays tithing or fast offerings because of the tax benefits has totally missed the point.
I personally refuse to claim my tithing donations on my taxes.  There is nothing wrong with doing so, but God asked for 10%.  If I pay 10% knowing that I won't actually be out 10% because I'll get a chunk back in tax credit I just have ended up feeling like I didn't really pay my 10%.

 

Because I am a greedy scumbag. ;) 

No, the temptation is there because I pay many times what I spend on food and could cut back and still follow the law and still pay much more than the cost of the two meals. And I am trying to pay off my mortgage as fast as possible. FREEDOM!!!

I can say the same thing for the 2018 taxes but only because I doubt I will itemize at all.

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16 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Why would there be a temptation to cut down on fast offerings?
Anyone who only pays tithing or fast offerings because of the tax benefits has totally missed the point.
I personally refuse to claim my tithing donations on my taxes.  There is nothing wrong with doing so, but God asked for 10%.  If I pay 10% knowing that I won't actually be out 10% because I'll get a chunk back in tax credit I just have ended up feeling like I didn't really pay my 10%.

Why not take the deduction then, and tithe on the savings and put the rest in Fast offering, Temple, Humanitarian or Missionary? 

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