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Why I don't believe in secular atheism. Happy Thanksgiving


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A godless neuroscientist wrote, "Imagine you are waiting in a checkout line at a store, and you see another customer get in line behind you. He smiles and gives you a cheerful greeting, so you have a positive feeling about him. You turn away to face the cashier. A few minutes go by a while the line slowly advances. The person behind you is silent, but you have a sense that he is there. You know not to step backward suddenly because you know you might step on his toes if you did. You have a sense of where and about how far away he is with respect to your own body. If you turn around to look at him, you might discover, much to your surprise, that he quietly left, and no one is behind you. In that case, your sense of his presence had been compelling and real to you, for some of that time, it was an illusion." quote read on Facebook. 

I think the neuroscientist shoots himself in the foot because in his story there was a real person behind. We humans never sense the presence of someone/something that doesn't exists. We Mormons feel the Holy Spirit because he is real. Spiritual experiences are real because the church is a blessing in our lives, the gospel helps us grow spiritually, morally, and intellectually. Atheism cannot explain why we are so blessed and so happy when we obey the commandments.

Just want to share a few more words before Thanksgiving.  I am so grateful for the atonement and the church. Without the church my life wouldn't mean anything, the church gives me purpose in life. I thank God for restoring his church.   

Happy Thanksgiving crew, 

God Bless 

Edited by SamuelTheLamanite
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10 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

I think the neuroscientist shoots himself in the foot because in his story there was a real person behind. We humans never sense the presence of someone/something that doesn't exists.

Really? That's happened to me many times - thinking someone was there and it turns out there was no one. I think that's happened to a lot of people. But happy Thanksgiving and God bless you too!

Edited by Gray
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10 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

A godless neuroscientist wrote, "Imagine you are waiting in a checkout line at a store, and you see another customer get in line behind you. He smiles and gives you a cheerful greeting, so you have a positive feeling about him. You turn away to face the cashier. A few minutes go by a while the line slowly advances. The person behind you is silent, but you have a sense that he is there. You know not to step backward suddenly because you know you might step on his toes if you did. You have a sense of where and about how far away he is with respect to your own body. If you turn around to look at him, you might discover, much to your surprise, that he quietly left, and no one is behind you. In that case, your sense of his presence had been compelling and real to you, for some of that time, it was an illusion." quote read on Facebook. 

I think the neuroscientist shoots himself in the foot because in his story there was a real person behind. We humans never sense the presence of someone/something that doesn't exists. We Mormons feel the Holy Spirit because he is real. Spiritual experiences are real because the church is a blessing in our lives, the gospel helps us grow spiritually, morally, and intellectually. Atheism cannot explain why we are so blessed and so happy when we obey the commandments.

I agree.  His quote can just as easily and plausibly be tweaked to read as follows:  "Imagine you are waiting in a checkout line at a store, and you see another customer get in line behind you. He smiles and gives you a cheerful greeting, so you have a positive feeling about him. You turn away to face the cashier. A few minutes go by a while the line slowly advances. The person behind you is silent, but you have a sense that he is there. You know not to step backward suddenly because you know you might step on his toes if you did. You have a sense of where and about how far away he is with respect to your own body. If you turn around to look at him, you might discover, much to your surprise, that he is still there, he is still behind you. In that case, your sense of his presence had been compelling and real to you, and was ultimately vindicated.  It was real."

10 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Just want to share a few more words before Thanksgiving.  I am so grateful for the atonement and the church. Without the church my life wouldn't mean anything, the church gives me purpose in life. I thank God for restoring his church.   

Happy Thanksgiving crew, 

God Bless 

Same to you!

Thanks,

-Smac

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10 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

A godless neuroscientist wrote, "Imagine you are waiting in a checkout line at a store, and you see another customer get in line behind you. He smiles and gives you a cheerful greeting, so you have a positive feeling about him. You turn away to face the cashier. A few minutes go by a while the line slowly advances. The person behind you is silent, but you have a sense that he is there. You know not to step backward suddenly because you know you might step on his toes if you did. You have a sense of where and about how far away he is with respect to your own body. If you turn around to look at him, you might discover, much to your surprise, that he quietly left, and no one is behind you. In that case, your sense of his presence had been compelling and real to you, for some of that time, it was an illusion." quote read on Facebook. 

I think the neuroscientist shoots himself in the foot because in his story there was a real person behind. We humans never sense the presence of someone/something that doesn't exists. We Mormons feel the Holy Spirit because he is real. Spiritual experiences are real because the church is a blessing in our lives, the gospel helps us grow spiritually, morally, and intellectually. Atheism cannot explain why we are so blessed and so happy when we obey the commandments.

Just want to share a few more words before Thanksgiving.  I am so grateful for the atonement and the church. Without the church my life wouldn't mean anything, the church gives me purpose in life. I thank God for restoring his church.   

Happy Thanksgiving crew, 

God Bless 

We experience feelings and those feelings are real, but it is the interpretation about the feeling that people disagree about.  Is this feeling a person, or force external to us or is it something working inside our heads only.  If inside our heads only does this diminish the reality of the experience?  Personally I don’t think so.   

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My wife and I were somehow connected on what I would call a spiritual level. I could sense her presence without seeing or hearing her.
For example we could be shopping at the mall and split up to go to different stores and then when I was done I would go looking for her
I could walk just inside the door of each store and immediately know if she was in there or not without seeing or hearing her
As soon as I got to a store where I could sense her presence I could walk into the store and go right to where she was.
Some might call it luck or a disturbance in "the force", but I am convinced our spirits were somehow connected. 
How could an atheist describe this phenomenon?

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49 minutes ago, JAHS said:

My wife and I were somehow connected on what I would call a spiritual level. I could sense her presence without seeing or hearing her.
For example we could be shopping at the mall and split up to go to different stores and then when I was done I would go looking for her
I could walk just inside the door of each store and immediately know if she was in there or not without seeing or hearing her
As soon as I got to a store where I could sense her presence I could walk into the store and go right to where she was.
Some might call it luck or a disturbance in "the force", but I am convinced our spirits were somehow connected. 
How could an atheist describe this phenomenon?

Would love doing a double blind study to determine if you could accurately replicate this phenomina in a tested and controlled manner.  I’m not saying you couldn’t.  There are natural means and senses that we don’t fully understand yet.  A few years ago I read about a study with dogs that their heart rates would change when their owners got within close proximity of them, but the trick was the owner was in a separate room adjacent to the dog, and potentially the dog wasn’t consciously aware of the owner’s presence, but something within the dog’s unconscious physiology became aware of the presence of the owner and changed its heart rate.  

Your experience doesn’t prove God or disprove God in any way.  Atheists would acknowledge there are many natural mechanisms that we don’t fully understand.  

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11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I have gotten a weapon because I thought someone was In my house. There was no one there.

It was probably an evil spirit.  Fear is a feeling that comes from Satan. 

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The sensation of God being there is of a different type

You are absolutely right, the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness. I agree it is a different type .

11 hours ago, Gray said:

Really? That's happened to me many times - thinking someone was there and it turns out there was no one. I think that's happened to a lot of people

Joseph Smith taught that the spirit world is very close to us, when you feel someone is there it is probably a spirit or a messenger. 

Edited by SamuelTheLamanite
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5 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

It was probably an evil spirit.  Fear is a feeling that comes from Satan. 

Doubt it, I was not afraid. Just a phantom feeling that there was something in the hall. I got something to fight with and searched the place. Wary, but not afraid.

I have also been involved in exorcisms before and it was nothing like that feeling.

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11 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

It was probably an evil spirit.  Fear is a feeling that comes from Satan. 

You are absolutely right, the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness. I agree it is a different type .

Joseph Smith taught that the spirit world is very close to us, when you feel someone is there it is probably a spirit or a messenger. 

We as humans have many hundreds of thousands of years of evolution in our DNA.  Sensing someone or something close by could very possibly be a defense mechanism that has been honed and developed over eons.  Some people explain this as having the hair stand up on the back of our necks or getting goosebumps.  All of which is a remnant of when we actually had hair covering our bodies and we would bristle when in a flight or flight situation just like other mammals.   

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10 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Since your described experiences are independent of God, I don't think theism or atheism come into play.

How do you know they are independent of God? It could be the Holy Ghost telling me where to go.

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10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I have also been involved in exorcisms before and it was nothing like that feeling.

Why do you believe in exorcism? You won't find instructions on how to do an exorcism in LDS manuals because the church doesn't have a position. If you feel someone needs exorcism I recommend you take him/her to a doctor, not a priest.

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Doubt it, I was not afraid.

Okay, but it was probably someone from the spirit world, perhaps a messenger.

3 hours ago, sunstoned said:

We as humans have many hundreds of thousands of years of evolution in our DNA.  Sensing someone or something close by could very possibly be a defense mechanism that has been honed and developed over eons. 

Are you agreeing with the neurologist I quoted above?

Edited by SamuelTheLamanite
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17 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Why do you believe in exorcism? You won't find instructions on how to do an exorcism in LDS manuals because the church doesn't have a position. If you feel someone needs exorcism I recommend you take him/her to a doctor, not a priest.

Outside a doctor's pay grade.  Yeshua performed several exorcisms. Why perform them? Because evil spirits are rampant in the world. Many who come to the gospel will eventually get rid of them on their own with the help of the Spirit, but an exorcism can sometimes be helpful. Manson could probably have benefited if he had accepted Christ.

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On 11/22/2017 at 8:26 AM, The Nehor said:

I have gotten a weapon because I thought someone was In my house. There was no one there.

The sensation of God being there is of a different type and I disapprove of the analogy you are trying to rebut.

I find some dogs to have that sixth sense about evil spirits. They will get agitated and bark at "nothing." 

Incidentally, Mohammed taught his followers that dogs will prevent angels from entering the house, so most Muslims will not keep dogs. I think he was referring to the wrong type of angels...

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2 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Why do you believe in exorcism? You won't find instructions on how to do an exorcism in LDS manuals because the church doesn't have a position. If you feel someone needs exorcism I recommend you take him/her to a doctor, not a priest.

Okay, but it was probably someone from the spirit world, perhaps a messenger.

I believe it because I have done two of them. They are very rare.

Then he was a lousy messenger or came to the wrong place and left because I did not get a message. It was more likely just my brain misfiring my danger sense. It happens.

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On 11/21/2017 at 11:16 PM, SamuelTheLamanite said:

I think the neuroscientist shoots himself in the foot because in his story there was a real person behind. We humans never sense the presence of someone/something that doesn't exists. We Mormons feel the Holy Spirit because he is real. Spiritual experiences are real because the church is a blessing in our lives, the gospel helps us grow spiritually, morally, and intellectually. Atheism cannot explain why we are so blessed and so happy when we obey the commandments.

Just want to share a few more words before Thanksgiving.  I am so grateful for the atonement and the church. Without the church my life wouldn't mean anything, the church gives me purpose in life. I thank God for restoring his church.   

Happy Thanksgiving crew, 

God Bless 

I was going to respond to this yesterday but run out of time and better equipped tonight with some finest Schotch & Grand Marnier in my system. First; it's a good thing we do not sense "something do not exist", some of us do and that's usually a bad thing. I don't know about Holy spirit's presence, because I never felt it. Atheism doesn't have to explain to you nothing, as long as you are happy that's good thing, Atheism is no big deal, it just tells me god doesn't exist, that's all. 

Bu I am sincerely happy for you to feel the way you feel. And I share your sentiment of "Happy Thanksgiving".

 

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10 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I chalk that up to a poor or confusing translation. I interpret it more as respect and awe for the Lord to capture the intended meaning.

Perhaps. And I do think that respect and awe are part of it, for sure. But I also think there is a reason angels say "Fear not" when they show up. The power of beings greater than ourselves (angels, God) is a frightening thing for our limited minds to experience.

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8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I believe it because I have done two of them. They are very rare.

Exorcisms intrigue me. I think I started a thread on LDS exorcisms awhile back. Catholicism takes it very seriously, with specifically trained priests and specific rules and rites to follow. It might be something that's not commonly brought up in Catholicism, but there is a clear path if someone is need of one. I take comfort in the fact that each diocese has a designated and trained exorcist -- it wouldn't be an ad hoc experience.

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