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Rivers

Progression Between Kingdoms

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A while ago I remember a poster on this board saying something to the effect of the plan of salvation making sense only if choice will always be a factor.  Meaning that anybody can be in the celestial kingdom eventually as long as he/she chooses to be there.  

I recently finished the Givens' new Book The Christ Who Heals.  And to my amazement, they devote  an entire chapter to the idea if progress between kingdoms.  They make the case that God loves us much that the door will always be open to us to progress and have a relationship with Him.  They do, however, point out that the church has stated there is no official position on this matter and that this their hopeful opinion. But I find it incredible that that I was reading this in something from Deseret Book.  We've come a long way since BRM denounced this belief as a heresy.

I would have to agree that nothing in the gospel makes sense if there is fixed final judgement.  I don't see how we can prize agency as much as we do only to have it essentially made  useless in the life to come.  

You can all burn me at the stake now.

 

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26 minutes ago, Rivers said:

A while ago I remember a poster on this board saying something to the effect of the plan of salvation making sense only if choice will always be a factor.  Meaning that anybody can be in the celestial kingdom eventually as long as he/she chooses to be there.  

I recently finished the Givens' new Book The Christ Who Heals.  And to my amazement, they devote  an entire chapter to the idea if progress between kingdoms.  They make the case that God loves us much that the door will always be open to us to progress and have a relationship with Him.  They do, however, point out that the church has stated there is no official position on this matter and that this their hopeful opinion. But I find it incredible that that I was reading this in something from Deseret Book.  We've come a long way since BRM denounced this belief as a heresy.

I would have to agree that nothing in the gospel makes sense if there is fixed final judgement.  I don't see how we can prize agency as much as we do only to have it essentially made  useless in the life to come.  

You can all burn me at the stake now.

 

If we prize agency then the choices we make, as well as their consequences have to matter.  If I believe in the doctrine of progression between then the choices I make in this life would seem to have less and less importance.  What is even the purpose of this life then?

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I won't burn you at the stake.  I believe wholeheartedly in progression between/of kingdoms.  Doctrine doesn't allow me to believe otherwise.
And since the Church has no position I am comfortable that for once I am not espousing false doctrine on this.

OOPS - I guess this is a duplicate thread and the MODs can merge them.

Edited by JLHPROF

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How then are you supposedly resurrected with a body to match the kingdom you inherit?

Do you do a body switch?

1 Cor 15: 5

 

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35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36Thoufool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

So you change to a fish or bird body?  ;)

So the bodies are not different and Paul was wrong, or do you do a body switcharoo to get into another kingdom- and then switch back if you mess up?

And not only Paul was wrong then - so was section 76

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70 These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose gloryis that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.....

 

78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.

 

 

Edited by mfbukowski

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5 hours ago, ksfisher said:

If we prize agency then the choices we make, as well as their consequences have to matter.  If I believe in the doctrine of progression between then the choices I make in this life would seem to have less and less importance.  What is even the purpose of this life then?

A shortcut to progression if this theory is correct. 

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4 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I won't burn you at the stake.  I believe wholeheartedly in progression between/of kingdoms.  Doctrine doesn't allow me to believe otherwise.
And since the Church has no position I am comfortable that for once I am not espousing false doctrine on this.

OOPS - I guess this is a duplicate thread and the MODs can merge them.

What doctrine was that?

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Hey, might just as well have reincarnation then- there is really no difference.

Either it's once around forever or the whole Plan of Happiness is inconsistent

Might as well be a Christian Buddhist- that is a compatible choice.   It is to see being a "Christ" as a state of consciousness, in or out of the body.

So I guess the Buddhists were right, in substance after all and we are not at all unique in our beliefs.   Just a twist on the same old thing.   You just keep progressing from body to body.  :)

Or achieving a greater consciousness even in the same body.  Not much difference.

But that also involves mind-body dualism then.  So how can the spirit and body unified be a "soul"?

This is why I avoid literalism.  It becomes very easy for nothing to make sense at all.  ;)

So somebody explain that all including those inconsistencies please

 

Edited by mfbukowski

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29 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

What doctrine was that?

Several of them.  The nature of the resurrected bodies, the ministration between kingdoms (to what end?), statements of Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball on eternal progression and learning, the recognition of kingdoms higher than Celestial and Joseph's description of exaltation and his teachings on eternal punishment.  And others besides. 

I have a personal belief that rejects ANY teaching that puts a permanent limit on progression.  To my mind it beggars logic and doesn't fit with the way we see God operate.  Eternal limitation (ie, damnation) is an old sectarian doctrine in my opinion.

 

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32 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Several of them.  The nature of the resurrected bodies, the ministration between kingdoms (to what end?), statements of Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball on eternal progression and learning, the recognition of kingdoms higher than Celestial and Joseph's description of exaltation and his teachings on eternal punishment.  And others besides. 

I have a personal belief that rejects ANY teaching that puts a permanent limit on progression.  To my mind it beggars logic and doesn't fit with the way we see God operate.  Eternal limitation (ie, damnation) is an old sectarian doctrine in my opinion.

The ministration between kingdoms in my mind allows family members to continue to have a relationship of some sort (and thus enjoy that portion which they are willing to receive), between kingdoms. I also see infinite (an indeterminate number and kind of) opportunties for learning and action within the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms. I don't see the lesser kingdoms as punishments, but as gifts at a level the inhabitants are willing to enjoy.

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1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Several of them.  The nature of the resurrected bodies, the ministration between kingdoms (to what end?), statements of Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball on eternal progression and learning, the recognition of kingdoms higher than Celestial and Joseph's description of exaltation and his teachings on eternal punishment.  And others besides. 

I have a personal belief that rejects ANY teaching that puts a permanent limit on progression.  To my mind it beggars logic and doesn't fit with the way we see God operate.  Eternal limitation (ie, damnation) is an old sectarian doctrine in my opinion.

 

OK I am happy that you are happy with it- but this is vague and unconvincing.  I am not saying you are wrong either- just that you have said nothing to justify your position.

Our Father himself is still progressing through us if in no other way- but I happen to believe that there is no end to progression for those in the CK (highest) kingdom either.

Thanks for the post but it does not answer my question at all- it just states your opinion.  I am not the guy to argue with a testimony, but bare assertions are not very convincing.  I don't even understand why one would have to move between "kingdoms" to progress- I don't know what defines a "kingdom" at all if there are no standards supposedly defining it which are not tied to earth life

I mean all of section 76 is about who gets what kingdom depending on their earth life.  Progression between kingdoms seems to just toss out section 76 completely.  And we still have the problem of different bodies for different kingdoms left unsolved

So I have no problem either with leaving it at "Nobody knows".   Fine.   I do not expect to know how God operates while I am still on this mortal sphere

But when the question is raised then why not just leave it at that?  

"Nobody knows".

Fine. Drop the thread then because there is nothing to talk about.  It might as well be about the physics of resurrection- another useless topic.

 

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57 minutes ago, CV75 said:

The ministration between kingdoms in my mind allows family members to continue to have a relationship of some sort (and thus enjoy that portion which they are willing to receive), between kingdoms. I also see infinite (an indeterminate number and kind of) opportunties for learning and action within the telestial and terrestrial kingdoms. I don't see the lesser kingdoms as punishments, but as gifts at a level the inhabitants are willing to enjoy.

I know someone who has probably received the second annointing.  Of course I do not know that, but I do know he was called to SLC and something spiritually life changing happened on that trip that he speaks only of in vague terms even when you are trying to pry it out of him.  ;)   He has a high calling.

I have kind of goofed around with him that I hope that after we pass, he comes to visit with us and camp out for a few days at our place in the Terrestrial Kingdom.   He laughed and just kind of winked.

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1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Several of them.  The nature of the resurrected bodies, the ministration between kingdoms (to what end?), statements of Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball on eternal progression and learning, the recognition of kingdoms higher than Celestial and Joseph's description of exaltation and his teachings on eternal punishment.  And others besides. 

I have a personal belief that rejects ANY teaching that puts a permanent limit on progression.  To my mind it beggars logic and doesn't fit with the way we see God operate.  Eternal limitation (ie, damnation) is an old sectarian doctrine in my opinion.

 

Also, for what it is worth, nowhere else in the Christian world is the word "damn" considered a synonym with "dam" as in an obstacle to progression of a flow of water.  Dictionaries don't see it that way either.

The old sectarian notion is that "damnation" is not a limit on progression- it is eternal hellfire.

Yes one would not be progressing if one was in eternal hell fire but you understand the difference.  ;)

Just being a little pedantic tonight I guess.  ;)

 

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57 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I don't even understand why one would have to move between "kingdoms" to progress- I don't know what defines a "kingdom" at all if there are no standards supposedly defining it which are not tied to earth life

I mean all of section 76 is about who gets what kingdom depending on their earth life.  Progression between kingdoms seems to just toss out section 76 completely.  And we still have the problem of different bodies for different kingdoms left unsolved

You are completely right that this is somewhat speculative in nature based on assumptions and extensions of revealed truths.

I want to state that I actually lean more towards progression of kingdoms than progression between them.  The temple endowment is a great example, as is the progression of this earth.

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10 hours ago, Rivers said:

I would have to agree that nothing in the gospel makes sense if there is fixed final judgement.  I don't see how we can prize agency as much as we do only to have it essentially made  useless in the life to come.

Sounds like a severe limitation on the Plan of Salvation.  But agency is a very essential part of that plan.  The "Eternal Law of Justice" would only permit this creation to proceed if every soul were given full opportunity exercise their agency in this world and the next (Paradise/Spirit Prison).  God is able to make full and comprehensive judgement of our integrity and willingness to be parents to next set of intelligences in the next "Eternal Round."

10 hours ago, ksfisher said:

If we prize agency then the choices we make, as well as their consequences have to matter.  If I believe in the doctrine of progression between then the choices I make in this life would seem to have less and less importance.  What is even the purpose of this life then?

I agree.

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

A shortcut to progression if this theory is correct. 

It would not be a shortcut.   If you don't "make it" in this round, it will probably take several more rounds before you are in position to become a candidate for the next "Plan of Salvation" to try to prove yourself again.  But I don't think it would be permitted in the "Eternal Law of Justice."

5 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Hey, might just as well have reincarnation then- there is really no difference.

It would imply God does not know what He is doing.

5 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I have a personal belief that rejects ANY teaching that puts a permanent limit on progression.  To my mind it beggars logic and doesn't fit with the way we see God operate.  Eternal limitation (ie, damnation) is an old sectarian doctrine in my opinion.

Sounds like you have no confidence in God's plan.

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20 hours ago, Rivers said:

I would have to agree that nothing in the gospel makes sense if there is fixed final judgement.  I don't see how we can prize agency as much as we do only to have it essentially made  useless in the life to come. 

I think the prizing of agency is epitomized in rendering it unto God as Jesus modeled for us in Gethsemane and on the cross, whether one has little (because of disobedience) or much (because of grace). All will eventually render our agency to God (every knee shall bow, every tongue shall confess), making us either one with Him in His presence or less-than one with Him in the lesser kingdoms. Rendering and submitting are not the same as relinquishing, and so we will always have agency within the bounds and according to the laws of the kingdom in which we reside, which is all we are willing to receive and enjoy.

I like to look at this questions in terms of, "Can we increase our agency in one kingdom so as to advance into a higher kingdom?" We do it here in this mortal telestial kingdom, where we have a space granted unto us in which we might repent to return to the eternal celestial world and exaltation (Alma 12:24), but the condition of immortality, of living forever, eradicates any space for repentance (Alma 42:5).

I think the principle of receiving that which we are willing to enjoy allows a great deal of mercy and grace to take place in the spirit world before the resurrection. That willingness is what defines us, and the crucible of mortality and awaiting the resurrection the spirit world reveal without a shadow of a doubt our level of willingness, where willingness, the state of being prepared, is the most fundamental expression of agency.

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12 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I know someone who has probably received the second annointing.  Of course I do not know that, but I do know he was called to SLC and something spiritually life changing happened on that trip that he speaks only of in vague terms even when you are trying to pry it out of him.  ;)   He has a high calling.

I have kind of goofed around with him that I hope that after we pass, he comes to visit with us and camp out for a few days at our place in the Terrestrial Kingdom.   He laughed and just kind of winked.

I'm glad he winked -- !

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I also believe that there is potential to progress from one kingdom to another, based on a person's willingness to repent 

 

Quote

 32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets. 
 33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands
 34 And all other principles of the gospel that were necessary for them to know in order to qualify themselves that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. 
 35 And so it was made known among the dead, both small and great, the unrighteous as well as the faithful, that redemption had been wrought through the sacrifice of the Son of God upon the cross. 
 36 Thus was it made known that our Redeemer spent his time during his sojourn in the world of spirits, instructing and preparing the faithful spirits of the prophets who had testified of him in the flesh; 
 37 That they might carry the message of redemption unto all the dead, unto whom he could not go personally, because of their rebellion and transgression, that they through the ministration of his servants might also hear his words. 
 58 The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God
 59 And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation.
(D&C 138:32-37, 58-59)

In the above verses, individuals that rejected the truth in mortality will have an opportunity to repent and be obedient to ordinances.  We know that ordinances are only needed for the Celestial Kingdom, so this would indicate that they would progress form one kingdom to another.


 

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I believe and accept the comforting statement of Elder Orson F. Whitney:
The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and he never taught more comforting doctrine—that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father’s heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God.
A principle in this statement that is often overlooked is that they must fully repent and "suffer for their sins" and "pay their debt to justice." I recognize that now is the time "to prepare to meet God." If the repentance of the wayward children does not happen in this life, is it still possible for the cords of the sealing to be strong enough for them yet to work out their repentance? In the Doctrine and Covenants we are told, "The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God"
(James E. Faust, CR, April 2003, 61)

 

I like this quote from Lorenzo Snow.

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God loves his offspring, the human family. His design is not simply to furnish happiness to the few here, called Latter-day Saints. The plan and scheme that he is now carrying out is for universal salvation; not only for the salvation of the Latter-day Saints, but for the salvation of every man and woman on the face of the earth, for those also in the spirit world, and for those who may hereafter come upon the face of the earth. It is for the salvation of every son and daughter of Adam. They are the offspring of the Almighty, he loves them all and his plans are for the salvation of the whole, and he will bring all up into that position in which they will be as happy and as comfortable as they are willing to be.
(Lorenzo Snow, JD, 14:308)

 

Boyd K. Packer had a great observation.
 

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We emphasize that the greatest work you will do will be within the walls of your home (see Harold B. Lee, in Conference Report, April 1973, p.130), and that 'no other success can compensate for failure in the home' (see David O. Mckay, in Conference Report, April 1935, p.116). 
The measure of our success as parents, however, will not rest solely on how our children turn out. That judgement would be just only if we could raise our families in a perfectly moral environment, and that now is not possible. 
It is not uncommon for responsible parents to lose one of their children, for a time, to influences over which they have no control. They agonize over rebellious sons and daughters. They are puzzled over why they are so helpless when they have tried so hard to do what they should. It is my conviction that those wicked influences one day will be overruled 
We cannot overemphasize the value of temple marriage, the binding ties of the sealing ordinance, and the standards of worthiness required of them. When parents keep the covenants they have made at the altar of the temple, their children will be forever bound to them. 
(Boyd K. Packer, CR, Apr. 1992, 94-95)

 

 

 

Edited by MDalby

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14 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I mean all of section 76 is about who gets what kingdom depending on their earth life.  Progression between kingdoms seems to just toss out section 76 completely.  And we still have the problem of different bodies for different kingdoms left unsolved...

 

There is never a time when the spirit is too old to approach God. All are within the reach of pardoning mercy, who have not committed the unpardonable sin
(Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 191)

The work that has been accomplished in the nations of the earth and the islands of the sea is grand and glorious. And this is not all; within the last few months thousands of persons in the spirit world have been placed in a condition that they may receive the word of God and be saved, through the ordinances that have been administered in these four temples in this Territory.
A wonderful work is being accomplished in our temples in favor of the spirits in prison. I believe, strongly too, that when the Gospel is preached to the spirits in prison, the success attending that preaching will be far greater than that attending the preaching of our Elders in this life. I believe there will be very few indeed of those spirits who will not gladly receive the Gospel when it is carried to them. The circumstances there will be a thousand times more favorable.  I believe there will be very few who will not receive the truth. They will hear the voice of the Son of God; they will hear the voice of the Priesthood of the Son of God, and they will receive the truth and live. These brethren and sisters that are laboring so industriously in the temples will have the honor of being, as it were, saviors to their kindred and friends in whose favor they administered these ordinances.
Therefore, mourn not because all your sons and daughters do not follow in the path that you have marked out to them, or give heed to your counsels. Inasmuch as we succeed in securing eternal glory, and stand as saviors, and as kings and priests to our God, we will save our posterity. When Jesus went through that terrible torture on the cross, He saw what would be accomplished by it; He saw that His brethren and sisters"”the sons and daughters of God"”would be gathered in, with but few exceptions"”those who committed the unpardonable sin. That sacrifice of the divine Being was effectual to destroy the powers of Satan. I believe that every man and woman who comes into this life and passes through it, that life will be a success in the end. It may not be in this life. It was not with the antedeluvians. They passed through troubles and afflictions; 2,500 years after that, when Jesus went to preach to them, the dead heard the voice of the Son of God and they lived. They found after all that it was a very good thing that they had conformed to the will of God in leaving the spiritual life and passing through this world.
(President Lorenzo Snow, CR, Oct 1893)
 

Edited by MDalby

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57 minutes ago, MDalby said:

 

There is never a time when the spirit is too old to approach God. All are within the reach of pardoning mercy, who have not committed the unpardonable sin
(Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 191)

The work that has been accomplished in the nations of the earth and the islands of the sea is grand and glorious. And this is not all; within the last few months thousands of persons in the spirit world have been placed in a condition that they may receive the word of God and be saved, through the ordinances that have been administered in these four temples in this Territory.
A wonderful work is being accomplished in our temples in favor of the spirits in prison. I believe, strongly too, that when the Gospel is preached to the spirits in prison, the success attending that preaching will be far greater than that attending the preaching of our Elders in this life. I believe there will be very few indeed of those spirits who will not gladly receive the Gospel when it is carried to them. The circumstances there will be a thousand times more favorable.  I believe there will be very few who will not receive the truth. They will hear the voice of the Son of God; they will hear the voice of the Priesthood of the Son of God, and they will receive the truth and live. These brethren and sisters that are laboring so industriously in the temples will have the honor of being, as it were, saviors to their kindred and friends in whose favor they administered these ordinances.
Therefore, mourn not because all your sons and daughters do not follow in the path that you have marked out to them, or give heed to your counsels. Inasmuch as we succeed in securing eternal glory, and stand as saviors, and as kings and priests to our God, we will save our posterity. When Jesus went through that terrible torture on the cross, He saw what would be accomplished by it; He saw that His brethren and sisters"”the sons and daughters of God"”would be gathered in, with but few exceptions"”those who committed the unpardonable sin. That sacrifice of the divine Being was effectual to destroy the powers of Satan. I believe that every man and woman who comes into this life and passes through it, that life will be a success in the end. It may not be in this life. It was not with the antedeluvians. They passed through troubles and afflictions; 2,500 years after that, when Jesus went to preach to them, the dead heard the voice of the Son of God and they lived. They found after all that it was a very good thing that they had conformed to the will of God in leaving the spiritual life and passing through this world.
(President Lorenzo Snow, CR, Oct 1893)
 

Nice post but was it supposed to address the question I asked?

I don't see anything relevant here- what am I missing?

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12 hours ago, longview said:

It would imply God does not know what He is doing.

Of course it does not imply that- it only implies that WE do not know what God is doing and there is no point to this thread.

The scriptures on this subject seem to be ambiguous and contradictory

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1 hour ago, MDalby said:

In the above verses, individuals that rejected the truth in mortality will have an opportunity to repent and be obedient to ordinances.  We know that ordinances are only needed for the Celestial Kingdom, so this would indicate that they would progress form one kingdom to another.

No it does not indicate that at all. It indicates only that they will be taught in the spirit world.  It says nothing about progressing between kingdoms.

Ordinances can be received in the spirit world and if worthy, at the resurrection, the spirit could enter the kingdom it deserves- but that says nothing about progression between kingdoms that I can see.  :)

One inherits a kingdom at the resurrection, not immediately after death when one enters the spirit world.   Perhaps that is the confusion.

As I quoted in earlier posts, one then inherits the kind of body which corresponds to the glory of the kingdom  and keeps that body forever- at least that is what the scriptures say pretty directly.

 

Edited by mfbukowski

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14 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

You are completely right that this is somewhat speculative in nature based on assumptions and extensions of revealed truths.

I want to state that I actually lean more towards progression of kingdoms than progression between them.  The temple endowment is a great example, as is the progression of this earth.

OK thanks

Could you go into "progression of kingdoms" more, and how the endowment is an example of that?

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1 hour ago, MDalby said:

I also believe that there is potential to progress from one kingdom to another, based on a person's willingness to repent 

I believe that willingness to repent would have to come before the actual judgement, i.e. in the spirit world. When a person obtains a kingdom they will have already paid the price for the sins that they never repented of either in this life or the spirit world, sins that Christ has already paid the price for on the condition of repentance.

At this point I can't get past the "worlds without end" in verse 112 of section 76 of the Doctrine and Covenants. I would hope that Lorenzo Snow is correct that many will accept the gospel who had rejected it in the past. But my wife and I have children that were never sealed to us or anyone else who have rejected the gospel. But I fear for them because of Amulek's words:

Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. (Alma 34:34)

I would expect that there will be many who will be given pause to rethink a lot of their assumptions that they had in the previous life. Such as an atheist. He or she would already be knowing that there is an after life because they would know that there bodies were dead but some part of them would still be alive. But having yet to meet Christ or the Father, they would have to listen to the different opinions of those spirits around them. And I would expect that there would still be differences of opinion as to what it is all about by the denizens of that part of the spirit world. Would a diehard Methodist or Presbyterian or Catholic be any more inclined to listen to the "Mormon meetings?" I don't know. Amulek does not seem to think so, if I understand his words correctly.

Glenn

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30 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

No it does not indicate that at all. It indicates only that they will be taught in the spirit world.  It says nothing about progressing between kingdoms.

Ordinances can be received in the spirit world and if worthy, at the resurrection, the spirit could enter the kingdom it deserves- but that says nothing about progression between kingdoms that I can see.  :)

One inherits a kingdom at the resurrection, not immediately after death when one enters the spirit world.   Perhaps that is the confusion.

As I quoted in earlier posts, one then inherits the kind of body which corresponds to the glory of the kingdom  and keeps that body forever- at least that is what the scriptures say pretty directly.

 

What is the purpose of teaching people in the spirit world about Gospel principles that include baptism for the dead and receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost if those principles do not apply to them?  Is God just thumbing His nose at them?

58 The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God
59 And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation.
(D&C 138:32-37, 58-59)

So what do these verses mean to you?  Ordinances only apply to the Celestial Kingdom.

A man may be saved, after the judgment, in the terrestrial kingdom, or in the telestial kingdom, but he can never see the celestial kingdom of God, without being born of water and the Spirit. 
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 12)

But in order to enter into the celestial kingdom, which is the kingdom of exaltation, and the kingdom spoken of in the scriptures as the kingdom of God, one must accept and abide in the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, adhering to the teachings, receiving the ordinances, and being true to the covenants which appertain to that salvation".  The Prophet says a man may enter into the terrestrial or the telestial kingdom who has not been baptized with water and who has not in this life received these ordinances, but he can never enter into the celestial kingdom without complying with these eternal laws.
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2: 25)

Question: Is baptism necessary to gain entry into the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms? Won't all who are resurrected and go into these lower kingdoms have to be baptized before they can leave paradise? What will happen to those in paradise who refuse to accept the gospel and accept baptism, even by proxy?
Answer: The scriptures are very clear in declaring that baptism is for the celestial kingdom only. For a place in the terrestrial or the telestial kingdom, baptism is not required.
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 5, pg. 147)

 

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4 minutes ago, Glenn101 said:

I believe that willingness to repent would have to come before the actual judgement, i.e. in the spirit world. When a person obtains a kingdom they will have already paid the price for the sins that they never repented of either in this life or the spirit world, sins that Christ has already paid the price for on the condition of repentance.

There is never a time when the spirit is too old to approach God. All are within the reach of pardoning mercy, who have not committed the unpardonable sin
(Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 191)

How do you define the word never?

Quote

What is it to be damned? Does it mean that all who come under that sentence shall be cast into hell, there to dwell forever and forever? The light of the century, given by the Lord, declares the falsity of that construction. . . . And except for those few, who have betrayed their trust and who have forfeited the very ability to repent"”and they are few"”every soul that has ever been tabernacled in flesh upon the earth shall be redeemed and shall be saved in his degree of worthiness and desert. . . . During this hundred years many other great truths not known before, have been declared to the people, and one of the greatest is that to hell there is an exit as well as an entrance. . . . No man will be kept in hell longer than is necessary to bring him to a fitness for something better. . . . The Lord has not abated in the least what he has said in earlier dispensations concerning the operation of his law and his gospel, but he has made clear unto us his goodness and mercy through it all, for it is his glory and his work to bring about the immortality and eternal life of man.
(Elder James E. Talmage, CR, Apr. 1930, pp. 95-97)

 

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