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I know this has been discussed previously (but couldn't find the thread). I recently came to the realization that every 4th Sunday for 6 months will be based on 1 topic. The first 6 months of 2018 happens to have the topic of Sabbath worship- keeping the Sabbath day holy. Regardless of what one thinks about that particular topic, is it reasonable to expect 6 lessons on consecutive months on the same topic to be stimulating to the membership? I struggle to see how even the most dedicated member could be excited about hearing the same topic (presumably with a different spin) for 6 straight months.

Has anyone been involved in the pilot programs for this approach (which also used Sabbath Observance as the topic- so you get another 6 months...yay!!)? How did it work? Were eyes more glazed over than usual on the 5th and 6th month? Seriously, is anyone looking forward to this? I will be thrilled if someone can show me that I have misunderstood this teaching approach and it won't really be 6 months of the same topic.

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Fourth Sunday

Members study a doctrinal topic related to the work of Melchizedek Priesthood and Relief Society.

https://www.lds.org/manual/2018?lang=eng

 

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Edited by HappyJackWagon
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Hopefully, by the end of that six months, we'll all be much better at keeping the Sabbath. ;):D  While, certainly, I'm far from perfect in that regard, and while your mileage may vary, I confess that my recent "enforced sabbatical" from more active Church attendance and participation has made me appreciate the Sabbath that much more.  (I'm glad that Exodus 31:15 isn't enforced ... :huh::unsure:)

Edited by Kenngo1969
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1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I know this has been discussed previously (but couldn't find the thread). I recently came to the realization that every 4th Sunday for 6 months will be based on 1 topic. The first 6 months of 2018 happens to have the topic of Sabbath worship- keeping the Sabbath day holy. Regardless of what one thinks about that particular topic, is it reasonable to expect 6 lessons on consecutive months on the same topic to be stimulating to the membership? I struggle to see how even the most dedicated member could be excited about hearing the same topic (presumably with a different spin) for 6 straight months.

Has anyone been involved in the pilot programs for this approach (which also used Sabbath Observance as the topic- so you get another 6 months...yay!!)? How did it work? Were eyes more glazed over than usual on the 5th and 6th month? Seriously, is anyone looking forward to this? I will be thrilled if someone can show me that I have misunderstood this teaching approach and it won't really be 6 months of the same topic.

 

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Apparently keeping the sabbath day holy is something that the brethren feel is important right now. 

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42 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Hopefully, by the end of that six months, we'll all be much better at keeping the Sabbath. ;):D  While, certainly, I'm far from perfect in that regard, and while your mileage may vary, I confess that my recent "enforced sabbatical" from more active Church attendance and participation has made me appreciate the Sabbath that much more.  (I'm glad that Exodus 31:15 isn't enforced ... :huh::unsure:)

Fair enough. But does 6 months of lessons based on the same topic sound interesting to you? Whether it's the Sabbath, or tithing, or baptism, or repentance...whatever, it doesn't sound like a very compelling learning/teaching model.

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3 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Fair enough. But does 6 months of lessons based on the same topic sound interesting to you? Whether it's the Sabbath, or tithing, or baptism, or repentance...whatever, it doesn't sound like a very compelling learning/teaching model.

The same teaching model is used in the temple.  It's the same thing every time.

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Our RS president mentioned some unease about how that's going to go over.  They are going to have different 'facilitators' teaching those sundays rather than having 1 fourth sunday teacher like they do now, to help keep things a little more interesting.

There are probably at least 6 different aspects of Sabbath day worship that a group could discuss in turn, so I don't think it has to be boring or repetitive.  It will take some getting used to though.

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12 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Our RS president mentioned some unease about how that's going to go over.  They are going to have different 'facilitators' teaching those sundays rather than having 1 fourth sunday teacher like they do now, to help keep things a little more interesting.

There are probably at least 6 different aspects of Sabbath day worship that a group could discuss in turn, so I don't think it has to be boring or repetitive.  It will take some getting used to though.

Personally I'm looking forward to it.  This is an area that I know that I could improve in and I believe my ward as a whole could as well.  The April 2017 Sabbath Day Observance training is fantastic and has helped me further my understanding of why this topic is of such importance. 

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/archive/general-conference-leadership-training/2017/04?lang=eng

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14 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Bore people into submission?  I don't think it'll work, although it has worked in the past.

When I was bored in church once by a lazy and incompetent teacher I wondered why some LDS have almost developed the endurance  of boredom into a virtue needed for the next life. Then I was terrified by what reason that virtue would be needed in eternity.

Then I remembered how fun heaven is and figure the endurance of boredom is like tasting evil. You cannot appreciate how exciting eternity is without having tasted the bitterness of a colossal bore droning on about their dull life in a F&T meeting as if the puerile events described are of great spiritual significance. Then I feel better.

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1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I know this has been discussed previously (but couldn't find the thread). I recently came to the realization that every 4th Sunday for 6 months will be based on 1 topic. The first 6 months of 2018 happens to have the topic of Sabbath worship- keeping the Sabbath day holy. Regardless of what one thinks about that particular topic, is it reasonable to expect 6 lessons on consecutive months on the same topic to be stimulating to the membership? I struggle to see how even the most dedicated member could be excited about hearing the same topic (presumably with a different spin) for 6 straight months.

Has anyone been involved in the pilot programs for this approach (which also used Sabbath Observance as the topic- so you get another 6 months...yay!!)? How did it work? Were eyes more glazed over than usual on the 5th and 6th month? Seriously, is anyone looking forward to this? I will be thrilled if someone can show me that I have misunderstood this teaching approach and it won't really be 6 months of the same topic.

 

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Personally, this topic of Sabbath observance is one of the most boring topics when it comes up in Sunday School.  How much time and discussion can we possibly spend rehashing all kinds of different ideas about which activities are and aren't appropriate?  Sounds like 6 months of a waste of time to me.  

Is this Sabbath topic something the church HQ decides on for everyone, or is this just a local thing for your area?  

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7 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Personally, this topic of Sabbath observance is one of the most boring topics when it comes up in Sunday School.  How much time and discussion can we possibly spend rehashing all kinds of different ideas about which activities are and aren't appropriate?  Sounds like 6 months of a waste of time to me.  

Is this Sabbath topic something the church HQ decides on for everyone, or is this just a local thing for your area?  

It's church wide. I believe a new topic will be chosen every 6 months but I don't know if it is following a calendar year or the conference schedule.

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We've discussed this somewhat in ward council, but I have to admit that I haven't looked closely at the nuts and bolts. Superficially, the spirit of the change is more local control and more adjusting and flexibility based on local circumstances and needs. We'll have to see if this applies to this.

I don't think a "the beatings will continue until morale improves" approach is effective. 

On the other hand, it is very obvious that Sabbath Day observance is the #1 concern of the Brethren right now. It would behoove us to do all we can to improve in this area. I just don't think that beating the adults with "Come Follow Me" repetition is an effective way to do this, and could even de-sensitize people.

Edited by rongo
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Its not like it is going to be every Sunday, it will be taught every fourth or fifth Sunday.  I would be surprised if anyone will remember it was taught before with that much space in between.  Hard to get people to remember what was taught the previous week.

As far as the topic goes, I believe that I could get six different lessons on the subject without too much repetition.

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6 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It's church wide. I believe a new topic will be chosen every 6 months but I don't know if it is following a calendar year or the conference schedule.

 

8 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It's church wide. I believe a new topic will be chosen every 6 months but I don't know if it is following a calendar year or the conference schedule.

On the fourth Sunday of each month, quorums, groups, and Relief Societies discuss a topic selected by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. These topics will be updated with every general conference. The topic until the next general conference will be the Sabbath day. Leaders or teachers may choose from the doctrines and learning activities suggested below, combine several of them, or create their own according to the needs of members.

https://www.lds.org/manual/come-follow-me-for-melchizedek-priesthood-and-relief-society-october-2017/fourth-sunday-meetings?lang=eng

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8 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It's church wide. I believe a new topic will be chosen every 6 months but I don't know if it is following a calendar year or the conference schedule.

Why would they choose this topic when its already been the focus for the past 2-3 years?  How much more can possibly be said on the subject.  Spend time with family, spend time doing charitable things, rest from your professional labors, worship God.  

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1 minute ago, ksfisher said:

Leaders or teachers may choose from the doctrines and learning activities suggested below, combine several of them, or create their own according to the needs of members.

https://www.lds.org/manual/come-follow-me-for-melchizedek-priesthood-and-relief-society-october-2017/fourth-sunday-meetings?lang=eng

I think this gives enough local flexibility to choose other topics, "according to the needs of members" as determined by local leaders. 

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9 minutes ago, rongo said:

We've discussed this somewhat in ward council, but I have to admit that I haven't looked closely at the nuts and bolts. Superficially, the spirit of the change is more local control and more adjusting and flexibility based on local circumstances and needs. We'll have to see if this applies to this.

I don't think a "the beatings will continue until morale improves" approach is effective. 

On the other hand, it is very obvious that Sabbath Day observance is the #1 concern of the Brethren right now. It would behoove us to do all we can to improve in this area. I just don't think that beating the adults with "Come Follow Me" repetition is an effective way to do this, and could even de-sensitize people.

I like that the brethren are assigning the topic and offering suggestions, but not proscribing the content of the lessons.  That is being left up to local leaders, as you mention.

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3 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Why would they choose this topic when its already been the focus for the past 2-3 years?  How much more can possibly be said on the subject.  Spend time with family, spend time doing charitable things, rest from your professional labors, worship God.  

Things could get interesting if they do 6 months on the law of chastity.

The extreme repetition will likely require the instructors to be creative in their approaches.

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8 minutes ago, rongo said:

I think this gives enough local flexibility to choose other topics, "according to the needs of members" as determined by local leaders. 

The topic should still be the sabbath day.

"On the fourth Sunday of each month, quorums, groups, and Relief Societies discuss a topic selected by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles"

How it is taught and which doctrines surrounding the chosen topic are up to local leaders.

Edited by ksfisher
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2 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Things could get interesting if they do 6 months on the law of chastity.

The extreme repetition will likely require the instructors to be creative in their approaches.

That's a scary thought to me.  Actually, 6 months focus on any particular topic sounds like it will boil down to more and more rigid and conservative applications of that topic.  

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The Church seems to be trying to figure out where is that balancing point between Exodus 31:15

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Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

and Mark 2:27.

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And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Jesus is supposed to have fulfilled the Law of Moses, but the Church seems to have created a kinder, gentler form of the Law of Moses with the Church Handbook of Instructions.

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2 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I know this has been discussed previously (but couldn't find the thread). I recently came to the realization that every 4th Sunday for 6 months will be based on 1 topic. The first 6 months of 2018 happens to have the topic of Sabbath worship- keeping the Sabbath day holy. Regardless of what one thinks about that particular topic, is it reasonable to expect 6 lessons on consecutive months on the same topic to be stimulating to the membership? I struggle to see how even the most dedicated member could be excited about hearing the same topic (presumably with a different spin) for 6 straight months.

Has anyone been involved in the pilot programs for this approach (which also used Sabbath Observance as the topic- so you get another 6 months...yay!!)? How did it work? Were eyes more glazed over than usual on the 5th and 6th month? Seriously, is anyone looking forward to this? I will be thrilled if someone can show me that I have misunderstood this teaching approach and it won't really be 6 months of the same topic.

I think if done int the right spirit, and with the principles from "Teaching in the Savior's Way," we will benefit from personal revelation in a group setting per D&C 50:22 and 88:122.

Some of the rationale for repeating is that it is a pattern related to receiving and recognizing revelation, and receiving new revelation that builds upon previous revelation: http://www.byui.edu/devotionals/elder-david-a-bednar

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