Should BYU Drop its Football Program?

[cdowis]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

The problem is that up till now there wasn't the kind of evidence for harm. And it may take sometime for people to take seriously.  When you are talking brain damage for what 90%? participants, that is a huge long term loss of quality of life that didn't need to happen. 

And  may explain the kneeling at the national anthem thing.  Perhaps football will basically die off and we will join the rest of the world by watching real foosball

[The Nehor]

58 minutes ago, cdowis said:

And  may explain the kneeling at the national anthem thing.  Perhaps football will basically die off and we will join the rest of the world by watching real foosball

I doubt foosball will be the next big thing except amongst the most brain damaged of sports fans.

I really wonder about the tongue in cheek assaults on these protests. Jokingly ascribing them to mental damage meaning that those harassing them and insulting them are basically picking on the potentially legitimately mentally ill? Why would anyone do that?

[stemelbow]

I get into football.  I love it.  But, I agree, we need to do away with it.  We can't continue something we know is causing long term negative effects.  I'm guessing football is but the tip of the iceberg on this. 

I have a son who plays college football.  When he was young we contemplated a bit about whether he should play and at the time, being young, we figured he'd get it out of his system and move on.  It wouldn't be a problem later in life.  It was a big mistake.  He went on to love it more and more.  We couldn't stop him.  Now he plays with big boys often out there doing nothing more than wanting to take his head off.  He plays fullback (was recruited to play linebacker) and gets pounded in the head each game.  I do all I can to convince him to quit while also playing this loving, supporting, encouraging daddy. 

I wish I could go back 10 years and take it all back.  I'm worried. 

[The Nehor]

14 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I get into football.  I love it.  But, I agree, we need to do away with it.  We can't continue something we know is causing long term negative effects.  I'm guessing football is but the tip of the iceberg on this. 

I have a son who plays college football.  When he was young we contemplated a bit about whether he should play and at the time, being young, we figured he'd get it out of his system and move on.  It wouldn't be a problem later in life.  It was a big mistake.  He went on to love it more and more.  We couldn't stop him.  Now he plays with big boys often out there doing nothing more than wanting to take his head off.  He plays fullback (was recruited to play linebacker) and gets pounded in the head each game.  I do all I can to convince him to quit while also playing this loving, supporting, encouraging daddy. 

I wish I could go back 10 years and take it all back.  I'm worried. 

 

[cdowis]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Jokingly ascribing them to mental damage meaning that those harassing them and insulting them are basically picking on the potentially legitimately mentally ill? Why would anyone do that?

In case you are unaware, being mentally ill does not mean you are stupid.  The psychopath/sociopath knows precisely what they are doing.  (You are thinking of the schizophrenic, who likely would be incapable of playing professional football)

They are using their fame as a platform to  disrespect our county and flag, on camera to their dwindling audience.   They are fully aware of what they are doing.

Edited November 13, 2017 by cdowis

[Jeanne]

4 hours ago, stemelbow said:

I get into football.  I love it.  But, I agree, we need to do away with it.  We can't continue something we know is causing long term negative effects.  I'm guessing football is but the tip of the iceberg on this. 

I have a son who plays college football.  When he was young we contemplated a bit about whether he should play and at the time, being young, we figured he'd get it out of his system and move on.  It wouldn't be a problem later in life.  It was a big mistake.  He went on to love it more and more.  We couldn't stop him.  Now he plays with big boys often out there doing nothing more than wanting to take his head off.  He plays fullback (was recruited to play linebacker) and gets pounded in the head each game.  I do all I can to convince him to quit while also playing this loving, supporting, encouraging daddy. 

I wish I could go back 10 years and take it all back.  I'm worried. 

I feel for you.  This is just one area in life...I look back and though it is not about sports..I want a do over..wish that I had done something else or been more persuasive rather that supportive.  (That sounds wrong I know)..I something wish that I had stuck to my guns on things that in the long run would have been better though short term it was an answer to getting closer and being that model parent.  Hugs to you...you sound like a wonderful father and ultimately...all WE can do is use our voice...and support their decisions.v  Nothing could be harder than to try and change the course that they love and enjoy...

Edited November 13, 2017 by Jeanne

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, cdowis said:

In case you are unaware, being mentally ill does not mean you are stupid.  The psychopath/sociopath knows precisely what they are doing.  (You are thinking of the schizophrenic, who likely would be incapable of playing professional football)

They are using their fame as a platform to  disrespect our county and flag, on camera to their dwindling audience.   They are fully aware of what they are doing.

Your attempt to paint them as villains and explain what they really mean (very different from what they say they represent) is facile, self-serving, and dishonest

[Bernard Gui]

Here's my solution for the Anthem protests, and it's a winner for everyone:

Capitalize on the protests by making them kind of like the old Indulgences. Open it up to one and all - dedicate the players' kneeling to a sponsored cause, a product, or a service - for a fee, of course.

For example, "Taking the knee today for PETA and protesting against the mistreatment of our animal friends is Eagles linebacker Jimmy 'Jumbo' Johnstone." "The entire Seahawks wide receiver cadre today is kneeling for the legalization of Recreational Marijuana." "Tonight Patriots quarterback Jock Strap is kneeling for hang nail research." "Leading the kneeling protest against sugar-caused obesity is the 350-pound Rams offensive center, Billy Blubber." "First on our list of protests tonight is the Ravens' tight end Speedy McFlee who will be kneeling to draw attention to the need for increased funding for safe-spaces on local community college campuses." "Coach, twelve of your players will be taking the knee in tomorrow's game protesting football contact-induced brain damage. What is the reaction of the rest of the team who will remain standing?" "This afternoon, protesting United Airlines shrinking its seating space again will fall to cornerback Ricky Boskowski." 

Then standing could be capitalized in the same way. "The entire Dallas team will be standing for the Anthem tonight in support of higher wages for the stadium hot dog vendors." "Players kneeling tonight will be protesting the NRA, while those standing will be honoring our sponsors Coca Cola and Dodge trucks." "Keeping with our tradition of fairness and inclusivity, tonight players will alternate standing and kneeling to support the cause of their choice. Watch the screen captions for your favorite player's name and his current crusade and whether he will be standing or kneeling during the Anthem. A list of all players' causes may be found in your printed program. You can rent a player for your cause by going to our website at www.nfl.kneelforme or download the NFL Rent-a-Cause app."

I see exciting things happening. There is money to be made!

Edited November 14, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

15 hours ago, cdowis said:

And  may explain the kneeling at the national anthem thing.  Perhaps football will basically die off and we will join the rest of the world by watching real foosball

Foosball. 

[carbon dioxide]

It would be a sad day if BYU was to get rid of football.  It probably would have to get rid of soccer as well since that is a sport also with an elevated head injury risk.  Unless they ban hitting the ball with the head.  LDS football players would simply go to another school that offer football.  I guess the Utes would be the big winner in all of it.  In other words, few players would actually be helped by getting rid of football.  Few of them will say "I will give up football to attend BYU."  So the decision to end football really would not accomplish that much.

Edited November 14, 2017 by carbon dioxide

[The Nehor]

57 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Here's my solution for the Anthem protests, and it's a winner for everyone:

Capitalize on the protests by making them kind of like the old Indulgences. Open it up to one and all - dedicate the players' kneeling to a sponsored cause, a product, or a service - for a fee, of course.

For example, "Taking the knee today for PETA and protesting against the mistreatment of our animal friends is Eagles linebacker Jimmy 'Jumbo' Johnstone." "The entire Seahawks wide receiver cadre today is kneeling for the legalization of Recreational Marijuana." "Tonight Patriots quarterback Jock Strap is kneeling for hang nail research." "Leading the kneeling protest against sugar-caused obesity is the 350-pound Rams offensive center, Billy Blubber." "First on our list of protests tonight is the Ravens' tight end Speedy McFlee who will be kneeling to draw attention to the need for increased funding for safe-spaces on local community college campuses." "Coach, twelve of your players will be taking the knee in tomorrow's game protesting football contact-induced brain damage. What is the reaction of the rest of the team who will remain standing?" "This afternoon, protesting United Airlines shrinking its seating space again will fall to cornerback Ricky Boskowski." 

Then standing could be capitalized in the same way. "The entire Dallas team will be standing for the Anthem tonight in support of higher wages for the stadium hot dog vendors." "Players kneeling tonight will be protesting the NRA, while those standing will be honoring our sponsors Coca Cola and Dodge trucks." "Keeping with our tradition of fairness and inclusivity, tonight players will alternate standing and kneeling to support the cause of their choice. Watch the screen captions for your favorite player's name and his current crusade and whether he will be standing or kneeling during the Anthem. A list of all players' causes may be found in your printed program. You can rent a player for your cause by going to our website at www.nfl.kneelforme or download the NFL Rent-a-Cause app."

I see exciting things happening. There is money to be made!

I did not think it was possible to make watching a football game more dull. I take my hat off to you sir.

[The Nehor]

16 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

It would be a sad day if BYU was to get rid of football.  It probably would have to get rid of soccer as well since that is a sport also with an elevated head injury risk.  Unless they ban hitting the ball with the head.  LDS football players would simply go to another school that offer football.  I guess the Utes would be the big winner in all of it.  In other words, few players would actually be helped by getting rid of football.  Few of them will say "I will give up football to attend BYU."  So the decision to end football really would not accomplish that much.

I do not believe BYU would do this in a vacuum but I expect football to diminish generally.

[Bernard Gui]

8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I did not think it was possible to make watching a football game more dull. I take my hat off to you sir.

As you should! Thank you. But we should note that all the above activities, celebrations, and endorsements would take place before the kickoff, having absolutely no effect on the game itself.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

As you should! Thank you. But we should note that all the above activities, celebrations, and endorsements would take place before the kickoff, having absolutely no effect on the game itself.

Yeah, but after the kickoff goes the endless and dull commercials take up around half the game time. Equally boring.

[MiserereNobis]

On 11/10/2017 at 11:53 AM, Bernard Gui said:

Uncle Lumpy and the Friends of Calvin Coolidge

Great name! May bluegrass live forever.

[MiserereNobis]

On 11/13/2017 at 12:07 PM, cdowis said:

In case you are unaware, being mentally ill does not mean you are stupid.  The psychopath/sociopath knows precisely what they are doing.  (You are thinking of the schizophrenic, who likely would be incapable of playing professional football)

They are using their fame as a platform to  disrespect our county and flag, on camera to their dwindling audience.   They are fully aware of what they are doing.

Perhaps you should do what the one veteran green beret did and actually see what they are protesting about. Do you know..? The green beret met with Colin Kaepernick and they both came away with a better understanding of the other's position. It was actually the green beret who suggested that a compromise could be that Kaepernick kneel (this is back when he was sitting during the anthem). The green beret believed that was more respectful, since he and his fellow veterans would kneel in front of a fallen soldier's grave and kneeling is often used to show respect to something.

I suppose it is easier to just say they are treasonous SOB's who are only interested in disrespecting the flag, though...

[carbon dioxide]

22 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I do not believe BYU would do this in a vacuum but I expect football to diminish generally.

Football does not have to diminish.  It just needs a few fixes to make it safer at least in terms of head injuries.  One area could be to identify those positions most prone to head injuries and limit the number of plays or tackles one can take in a game.  It would probably require the roster to be a little bigger to account for the more substitutions that occur.  Fewer hits not only would protect the brain more but the body generally. 

[Calm]

I suspect as soon as they start publicly agreeing that yes, your kid needs to be protected from playing too much football, so we are going to allow only so much play per game/practice, the reaction will be to look for a safer sport.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Calm

[zionssuburb@gmail.com]

All BYU Sports are going away, Idaho is gone, Hawaii is gone, its inevitable and need to come to terms, with E. Bednar now in the top 6 it's as good as dead.

 

[cinepro]

Here's an interesting argument:

Harvard and Yale Should Stop Playing Football

Quote

How can these two institutions rationalize a pastime so antithetical to the well-being of undergraduates and their own educational missions? It’s the equivalent of the Mayo Clinic operating a tobacco shop on-site. While athletics may be a worthwhile part of a well-rounded life, any sport practically designed to impair mental functioning can’t be justified as a university endeavor.

 

[cinepro]

On 11/13/2017 at 10:33 PM, carbon dioxide said:

It would be a sad day if BYU was to get rid of football.  It probably would have to get rid of soccer as well since that is a sport also with an elevated head injury risk.  Unless they ban hitting the ball with the head.  LDS football players would simply go to another school that offer football.  I guess the Utes would be the big winner in all of it.  In other words, few players would actually be helped by getting rid of football.  Few of them will say "I will give up football to attend BYU."  So the decision to end football really would not accomplish that much.

Heading the ball has already been banned for youth soccer (ages 11 and under).  I wouldn't be surprised if eventually it was banned completely (or only allowed in the penalty area). 

Heading the ball at midfield off a punt from the goalkeeper in a pro-level match is just insane. That ball is as hard as a rock.

(I actually meant to amend my previous comments about concussions not being a part of the sport of soccer.  Heading the ball in certain situations can give you a concussion!)

Edited November 16, 2017 by cinepro

[bluebell]

This article was in my newsfeed this morning.  It said in part-

Researchers in Chicago report that they have detected evidence of chronic traumatic encephalopathy, more commonly known as CTE, in a living patient for the first time.

Currently, CTE, a degenerative brain disease found in those with a history of repetitive brain trauma, can only be formally diagnosed after an autopsy. But a new study indicates researchers may be one step closer to being able to diagnose the disease while a patient is still alive by detecting deposits of tau proteins.

Scans performed on 14 retired NFL players while they were still alive indicated the presence of tau, a type of protein that clumps up over neural cells that have been damaged, according to a study published in the Journal of Neurosurgery. The protein slowly spreads throughout the brain, killing brain cells, according to the Concussion Legacy Foundation.

When one of the former players died, doctors were able to determine whether the "distinctive CTE pattern" that resulted in his scan actually indicated the presence of the disease.

Once the man's brain was examined after his death, doctors made the official CTE diagnosis, according to the study.

The man was 59 when his brain was scanned, according to the study. Two years later, at age 61, the man's wife noticed that he had been experiencing progressive motor deficits, such as the inability to button his shirts, zip his pants or tie his shoes. Eventually, he was no longer able to feed himself. He had also developed muscle twitching in his arms and decreased muscle mass in his shoulders and arms, the study states, and in addition to what doctors presumed was CTE he also suffered from amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, often called ALS or Lou Gehrig’s Disease.

In the final months of his life, the man was admitted to a nursing home for dehydration, failure to thrive, progressive dysphagia, incontinence, progressive neck and limb weakness, and slurred speech, according to the study.

The man began playing football at 11 years old and continued until he retired from the league at 33, which placed his "cumulative lifetime risk exposure" at 22 years, according to the study.

[CA Steve]

It appears they have been able to detect CTE in live patient.

IMO that will end football, and any other money generating sport with CTE ties, as we now see it. How long that will take I don't know but I expect it will depend on how easy it is to test for it and how accurate the test is.

 

See here.

Ex-NFL player confirmed as 1st case of CTE in living patient

 

 

[nuclearfuels]

It would save a lot of embarrassment but then what would they joke about in opening exercises before splitting into our different quorums?

[Gray]

On 11/13/2017 at 1:07 PM, cdowis said:

They are using their fame as a platform to  disrespect our county and flag, on camera to their dwindling audience.   They are fully aware of what they are doing.

If you think respectfully kneeling out of concern about for all the racially-motivated murder that's going on is somehow disrespectful to either flag our country, you probably don't really get what it means to be a patriotic American.