Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
JLHPROF

Another splinter group appears.

Recommended Posts

http://www.sltrib.com/news/polygamy/2017/10/21/sex-abuse-allegations-have-rocked-the-polygamous-church-of-sister-wives-causing-rift-from-utah-to-montana/

For those interested in such things:

Looks like one of the fundamentalist groups has another split off.  It is amazing the overall 100 split off groups of "mormons" since the time of the restoration.

It's been a while since the main Church suffered a break off of any size although the Snuffer/Remnant group continues to grow.

And then there are the undefined groups of members still residing within the Church holding beliefs different than the official.  (Those who support SSM or ordination of women  for instance.)

So interesting to see so much variation.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

So interesting to see so much variation.

"The teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture 
so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question [of which church was 
right] by an appeal to the Bible
” [JS—H 1:12]."

We need to apply this to Mormonism too. Even with the D&C, Book of Mormon, and Pearl
of Great Price, other Mormon sects have arisen over time.  I wonder if their confidence in
these additional books has also been destroyed when trying to appeal to them.

I don't know about you, but my confidence in the Bible has never been destroyed even though
some things are not clearly explained.

Thanks,
Jim

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, theplains said:

"The teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture 
so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question [of which church was 
right] by an appeal to the Bible
” [JS—H 1:12]."

We need to apply this to Mormonism too. Even with the D&C, Book of Mormon, and Pearl
of Great Price, other Mormon sects have arisen over time.  I wonder if their confidence in
these additional books has also been destroyed when trying to appeal to them.

I don't know about you, but my confidence in the Bible has never been destroyed even though
some things are not clearly explained.

Thanks,
Jim

There are ten's of thousands of different Christian sects all reading the same Bible. Our faith doesn't hinge on the Bible or any other book of Scripture. It hinges on revelation to us in our day.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Interesting that this split is bringing people back to the Church.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Avatar4321 said:

Interesting that this split is bringing people back to the Church.

That is because, whether we realise it or not, many fundamentalists have just as strong testimonies of Christ, Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, etc as we members do.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, theplains said:

"The teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture 
so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question [of which church was 
right] by an appeal to the Bible
” [JS—H 1:12]."

We need to apply this to Mormonism too. Even with the D&C, Book of Mormon, and Pearl
of Great Price, other Mormon sects have arisen over time.  I wonder if their confidence in
these additional books has also been destroyed when trying to appeal to them.

I don't know about you, but my confidence in the Bible has never been destroyed even though
some things are not clearly explained.

Thanks,
Jim

Your attempt at a derail is noted.

Joseph didn't say that he had no confidence in the Bible. He said that the various preachers interpreted the same passages so differently as to make it impossible for him to work out which of them was right.

And Joseph's conclusion was reached by starting from the position that the Bible is both true and authoritative. So unless you are now telling us that you accept the divine authenticity of the Book of Mormon and the modern revelations, you are not part of that rather sumptuous "We." Only those who regard the additional scriptures as both true and authoritative get to make that determination.

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

You misread Joseph.
He does not state a lack of confidence in the Bible.  He states a lack of confidence in the ability of the sectarian Christian churches to settle their truth claims using the Bible.
And they still can't.  The Calvinists, Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists etc still cannot agree on doctrine despite their appeals to Biblical scripture.

There is no statement of a lack of confidence in the Bible.  Just in people's ability to understand it.

Very true.  They don't even agree on relatively simple things, such as whether or not Baptism is essential for salvation.  Some say it is, other say it isn't, but all use the bible alone to support their (contradictory) claims.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

You misread Joseph.
He does not state a lack of confidence in the Bible.  He states a lack of confidence in the ability of the sectarian Christian churches to settle their truth claims using the Bible.
And they still can't.  The Calvinists, Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists etc still cannot agree on doctrine despite their appeals to Biblical scripture.

There is no statement of a lack of confidence in the Bible.  Just in people's ability to understand it.

Sectarian is a word that probably no longer applies to most of those traditions, but that may indeed have been his experience at the time.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I wanted to put a clip from “Life of Brian” about the various Jewish revolutionary groups and their infighting but probably too much profanity for this board.

Share this post


Link to post
On 22/10/2017 at 7:48 PM, kiwi57 said:

Joseph didn't say that he had no confidence in the Bible. He said that the various preachers interpreted the same passages so differently as to make it impossible for him to work out which of them was right.

Would this explain why the FLDS sect of Mormonism feels the main LDS sect departed from the faith when
they abandoned polygamy?

Since Joseph Smith had access to the Bible and could pray to Heavenly Father, why would he need to rely on
the various preachers to 'work out the same passages' for him? 

Different sects of Mormonism have also arisen because they have made their own interpretations of what their
canon teaches. Would this mean its possible for a newcomer to also be confused about the Book of Mormon and
the LDS canon and which particular sect to join?

Thanks,
Jim

Share this post


Link to post
On 23/10/2017 at 1:42 PM, JLHPROF said:

 The Calvinists, Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists etc still cannot agree on doctrine despite their appeals to Biblical scripture.

Can the FLDS and main LDS sects agree on polygamy when appealing to LDS canon?

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, theplains said:

Can the FLDS and main LDS sects agree on polygamy when appealing to LDS canon?

Jim

No.  And  that doesn't create a lack of confidence in LDS canon either.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, theplains said:

Would this explain why the FLDS sect of Mormonism feels the main LDS sect departed from the faith when
they abandoned polygamy?

You'd have to ask them what they think. We are not responsible for them.

1 hour ago, theplains said:

Since Joseph Smith had access to the Bible and could pray to Heavenly Father, why would he need to rely on
the various preachers to 'work out the same passages' for him?

If a 14-year-old can't go to a preacher to explain the Bible, what good is a preacher in Protestantism?

1 hour ago, theplains said:

Different sects of Mormonism have also arisen because they have made their own interpretations of what their
canon teaches. Would this mean its possible for a newcomer to also be confused about the Book of Mormon and
the LDS canon and which particular sect to join?

No.

1 hour ago, theplains said:

Thanks,
Jim

You're welcome.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I wanted to put a clip from “Life of Brian” about the various Jewish revolutionary groups and their infighting but probably too much profanity for this board.

Thinking of joining the Judean Popular People's Front?

 

Share this post


Link to post
59 minutes ago, kiwi57 said:

Thinking of joining the Judean Popular People's Front?

 

I prefer the People's Popular Front of Judea...........HERETIC!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I prefer the People's Popular Front of Judea...........HERETIC!!!!!

Mind you, the Judean People's Front definitely have the most effective suicide squad...

Share this post


Link to post
On 25/10/2017 at 10:12 PM, kiwi57 said:

If a 14-year-old can't go to a preacher to explain the Bible, what good is a preacher in Protestantism?

Sometimes the Bible is difficult to understand in some places. The best thing is to read it for yourself
and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you.  Having a local preacher, bishop, or pastor to talk to is a good thing
but it should never be a substitute for the Word of God.

Thanks,
Jim

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, theplains said:

Sometimes the Bible is difficult to understand in some places. The best thing is to read it for yourself
and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you.  Having a local preacher, bishop, or pastor to talk to is a good thing
but it should never be a substitute for the Word of God.

Thanks,
Jim

And who suggested that they should be?

The point was that Joseph had a question to which he couldn't find an answer from his own Bible reading; so he listened to and asked questions of local clergymen, and still didn't have an answer.

Ultimately it was his Bible reading that directed him to "ask of God." He did so, and received an answer. In fact, he what he received was the Word of God to him on that subject.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
On 10/28/2017 at 2:47 PM, kiwi57 said:

And who suggested that they should be?

The point was that Joseph had a question to which he couldn't find an answer from his own Bible reading; so he listened to and asked questions of local clergymen, and still didn't have an answer.

Ultimately it was his Bible reading that directed him to "ask of God." He did so, and received an answer. In fact, he what he received was the Word of God to him on that subject.

You misunderstand, kiwi. You have to get an answer that one of those preachers approve of -- getting your own answer isn't valid, unless this is the case. It's a multiple choice question, "Which church is right?", but there is no option for marking "Other". C'mon, man, get a grip!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 10/28/2017 at 7:44 AM, theplains said:

Sometimes the Bible is difficult to understand in some places.

Well, duh! :) 

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Well, duh! :) 

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ces-devotionals/2012/01/stand-in-the-sacred-grove?lang=eng&_r=1

" ... This divine manifestation, in response to Joseph’s prayer to know the truth concerning religion and how he
might obtain a remission of his sins
, began the Restoration of the gospel in this final dispensation."

Even with a Bible and before going into the grove, Joseph Smith did not know how to obtain a remission
of sins.

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, theplains said:

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ces-devotionals/2012/01/stand-in-the-sacred-grove?lang=eng&_r=1

" ... This divine manifestation, in response to Joseph’s prayer to know the truth concerning religion and how he
might obtain a remission of his sins
, began the Restoration of the gospel in this final dispensation."

Even with a Bible and before going into the grove, Joseph Smith did not know how to obtain a remission
of sins.

Jim

Well, duh, once more.

How does one obtain a remission of his or her sins, going by the Bible?  Clearly, Joseph believed that Jesus Christ was the Savior, and that he was the source of any remission of sins.  But besides that, what? There seems to be some disagreement as to the process.  Is receiving baptism a required step?  There are some Christian denominations who don't believe that it is.  If it is required, how is one to be baptized?  By immersion, pouring, or sprinkling? By whom is one to be baptized?  Some say that a figure of authority must do it (but differ on who has the authority), others that anyone at all who is a believer may do so.  Some say that the words used must include the trinitarian formula, "In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost", and others think that the name of Jesus Christ suffices.  Some say that a newborn baby must be baptized before it dies or else it will go to hell, and others say that a person must understand what he or she is doing before being baptized (but what happens if a one-week old baby dies? heaven, hell or something else? they don't know).  Some believe that if you never got baptized in life, or even so much as heard of Jesus Christ in your life, well, you're going to hell to burn for all eternity. Others believe that you won't burn, but will sit at the gate of heaven, not in torment, but nevertheless not being allowed to enter (in Limbo, in other words). Yet others believe that if you didn't hear of Jesus Christ in this life, you will have that chance before Judgement day, and will have the opportunity to accept him or not -- and that mortals still on earth can perform proxy baptism for you, just in case you accepted that preaching.

Yep, the Bible alone is sufficient to know how to receive a remission of sins.  Sure thing, right?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, theplains said:

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ces-devotionals/2012/01/stand-in-the-sacred-grove?lang=eng&_r=1

" ... This divine manifestation, in response to Joseph’s prayer to know the truth concerning religion and how he
might obtain a remission of his sins
, began the Restoration of the gospel in this final dispensation."

Even with a Bible and before going into the grove, Joseph Smith did not know how to obtain a remission
of sins.

Jim

Well yeah, authoritative baptism wasn't around.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Sign in to follow this  
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...