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JLHPROF

$35 Million to buy the printers manuscripts of the BOM

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The Church just announced the purchase of the printers manuscript of the Book of Mormon from the Community of Christ for $35 million in donor funds.  (So not presumably not tithing).
Bargain?   Thoughts?  Naturally the social media response is as expected - "Why didn't they by more xyz charitable items with the money".  "Jesus would never approve".  etc.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865689273/LDS-Church-buys-printers-manuscript-of-Book-of-Mormon-for-record-35-million-from-Community-of.html
https://bycommonconsent.com/2017/09/20/35-million/
http://fox13now.com/2017/09/20/lds-church-acquires-printers-manuscript-of-book-of-mormon-for-35-million/

Community of Christ announcement - http://www.cofchrist.org/announcements
LDS Church announcement - http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-acquires-printers-manuscript-book-of-mormon

Edited by JLHPROF

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Why do we need it? They let us look at it. I think we have photographs of every page.

And yeah, that is too much. Who else is going to buy it? It's not like Romney is going to scoop it up from underneath the Church.

I have a good idea. Let's not buy their temple. I am going to hurt some CoC member feelings, but I don't like that thing. They are all going to flock to the Church within a decade anyway, and give it to us.

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1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

The Church just announced the purchase of the printers manuscript of the Book of Mormon from the Community of Christ for $35 million in donor funds.  (So not presumably not tithing).
Bargain?   Thoughts?  Naturally the social media response is as expected - "Why didn't they by more xyz charitable items with the money".  "Jesus would never approve".  etc.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865689273/LDS-Church-buys-printers-manuscript-of-Book-of-Mormon-for-record-35-million-from-Community-of.html
https://bycommonconsent.com/2017/09/20/35-million/
http://fox13now.com/2017/09/20/lds-church-acquires-printers-manuscript-of-book-of-mormon-for-35-million/

Community of Christ announcement - http://www.cofchrist.org/announcements
LDS Church announcement - http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-acquires-printers-manuscript-book-of-mormon

The Community of Christ (RLDS) badly needed the money. This sale has been in the works for quite some time.

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5 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Why do we need it? They let us look at it. I think we have photographs of every page.

And yeah, that is too much. Who else is going to buy it? It's not like Romney is going to scoop it up from underneath the Church.

I have a good idea. Let's not buy their temple. I am going to hurt some CoC member feelings, but I don't like that thing. They are all going to flock to the Church within a decade anyway, and give it to us.

The CoC has been diminishing in size and funds for awhile now, and the stalwarts are unlikely go LDS any time.

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They have a paid ministry,  I suppose they pass the plate like other Protestant churches, they lost members back when they made those major changes, so I suppose the Kirtland temple is next.

Edited by cdowis

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I think it is totally worth the money.  Now the church has control of this important manuscript and can perhaps better safeguard it for future generations.  What is 35 million to the church.  Cheaper than a shopping mall.

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6 hours ago, cdowis said:

For the church, it's as though we now have the Holy Grail of church artifacts.  The COC, I understand, has financial issues, so that will help them.

I think it is a good deal for both.  Of course the haters will beat their drum, but it's not as sexy as building the mall, and "Let's go shopping" so it will quickly dissipate.

From the Salt Lake Tribune:

Quote

Historian John Hajicek, of mormonism.com, compared the acquisition of the manuscript to the United States purchasing the U.S. Constitution. 

“This is a founding document of the LDS Church,” Hajicek said. “It is priceless.”

I think the comparison to the U.S. Constitution is apt.

I also think it demonstrates just to central The Book of Mormon is to our faith, and how committed the Church is to it.

Quote

The Community of Christ purchased the manuscript {in 1903} as part of a collection that cost $2,500. According to Hajicek, the LDS Church had the opportunity to purchase the manuscript then also and turned it down. 

D'oh!

According to Westegg.com, $2,500 in 1903 dollars is equivalent to $67,727.29 in 2016 dollars.

Quote

The acquisition renews interest in LDS Church history, Hajicek said, calling the sale the “biggest game-changer in Mormon history, since the year 1999, when President [Gordon B.] Hinckley made the announcement to rebuild the Nauvoo temple.”

“I thought the value of the manuscript exceeded $100 million, and the LDS Church got a good value,” Hajicek said.

I'm not sure I understand the "game-changer" remark.  

I also wonder how one goes about determining the value of a singular artifact that has tremendous "value" to a very, very small group (the LDS Church (and/or a few of its wealthiest members) and, perhaps, some of its schismatic sects), some substantially less value to a larger-but-still-very-small group (historians/museums), but pretty much no substantive value to anyone else.

Thanks,

-Smac

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8 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

The Church just announced the purchase of the printers manuscript of the Book of Mormon from the Community of Christ for $35 million in donor funds.  (So not presumably not tithing).
Bargain?   Thoughts?

Not sure if it was a bargain, per se, but it seems like a reasonable enough price. We want to maintain goodwill with the Community of Christ, and if this purchase allows us to do that while also acquiring a valuable piece of church history then that seems like a win-win to me. 

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Quote

The Community of Christ purchased the manuscript {in 1903} as part of a collection that cost $2,500. According to Hajicek, the LDS Church had the opportunity to purchase the manuscript then also and turned it down. 

Well too bad revelation didn't kick in and tell them they might as well get it now, back in 1903.  That 35 million could have fed a few people.

Quote

The acquisition renews interest in LDS Church history, Hajicek said, calling the sale the “biggest game-changer in Mormon history, since the year 1999, when President [Gordon B.] Hinckley made the announcement to rebuild the Nauvoo temple.”

“I thought the value of the manuscript exceeded $100 million, and the LDS Church got a good value,” Hajicek said.

Hinckley, as I recall, purchased forged documents for somewhere in the area of 5 digits.  I guess an authentic document is worth more.  It makes ya wonder who else out there would have any interest at all to buy it.  If the value was 100 million who would have paid that?  And if so, then the CoC got ripped, should have talked to someone else.  Of course I doubt anyone out there would have spent anything near what the Church did to get this and the CoC was desperate for funds. 

We have had enough of the flailing negativity, Stemelbow. You are on Limited and out of the thread. 

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10 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

The Church just announced the purchase of the printers manuscript of the Book of Mormon from the Community of Christ for $35 million in donor funds.  (So not presumably not tithing).
Bargain?   Thoughts?  Naturally the social media response is as expected - "Why didn't they by more xyz charitable items with the money".  "Jesus would never approve".  etc.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865689273/LDS-Church-buys-printers-manuscript-of-Book-of-Mormon-for-record-35-million-from-Community-of.html
https://bycommonconsent.com/2017/09/20/35-million/
http://fox13now.com/2017/09/20/lds-church-acquires-printers-manuscript-of-book-of-mormon-for-35-million/

Community of Christ announcement - http://www.cofchrist.org/announcements
LDS Church announcement - http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-acquires-printers-manuscript-book-of-mormon

I think it is a nice gesture from the donors to secure this treasure in behalf of all members of the Church. I see it as a gift given on good faith and I accept it graciously.

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3 hours ago, cdowis said:

so I suppose the Kirtland temple is next.

Interestingly, I know of one influential LDS church member who hopes the Kirtland Temple stays in the hands of the CoC, so it stays open and as is.

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38 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

The acquisition renews interest in LDS Church history, Hajicek said, calling the sale the “biggest game-changer in Mormon history, since the year 1999, when President [Gordon B.] Hinckley made the announcement to rebuild the Nauvoo temple.”

I think this is an odd thing to say.  How is it a big "game-changer in Mormon history" to purchase these documents?

I can see that it's great to have these in our possession, but a "game-changer"?  

It's also nice that this helps out the CofC.  I wonder where all the 35 million came from though....that's a whole lot of donations!  I do know there are some very wealthy members of the church.

Edited by ALarson

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Besides the Kirtland Temple and their Independence Temple Lot property, do they have any major historical properties left to sell off? I know they sold the Joseph Smith Kirtland House a short while ago, as well as the Hauns Mill site. Asking for an Apocalyptic Mormon friend buying land in Jackson County....

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9 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The CoC has been diminishing in size and funds for awhile now, and the stalwarts are unlikely go LDS any time.

I believe most of the money will be used for the retirement fund which is woefully under capitalized. So it's for a good purpose.

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20 minutes ago, champatsch said:

Interestingly, I know of one influential LDS church member who hopes the Kirtland Temple stays in the hands of the CoC, so it stays open and as is.

Even if the Church bought it I can't see them turning it into a temple with endowments. Nauvoo was somewhat different due to it first being destroyed not long after the Mormons left. So effectively the Church was rebuilding a building. The interior isn't even based on the original. Kirtland on the other hand never was used for higher ordinances, is in good condition, and arguably would be almost impossible to use for endowments/marriages without basically razing it which the Church would never do.

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10 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Why do we need it? They let us look at it. I think we have photographs of every page.

And yeah, that is too much. Who else is going to buy it? It's not like Romney is going to scoop it up from underneath the Church.

I have a good idea. Let's not buy their temple. I am going to hurt some CoC member feelings, but I don't like that thing. They are all going to flock to the Church within a decade anyway, and give it to us.

Where did you get this timetable that they are "going to flock to the Church within a decade anyway"? We don't need their Temple, if memory serves it is not on part of the Temple lot. 

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25 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I think this is an odd thing to say.  How is it a big "game-changer in Mormon history" to purchase these documents?

I agree.  I have no idea what game is changed by this.

25 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I can see that it's great to have these in our possession, but a "game-changer"?  

It's also nice that this helps out the CofC.  I wonder where all the 35 million came from though....that's a whole lot of donations!  I do know there are some very wealthy members of the church.

Well prosperity gospel is largely accepted by the Mormon populace. 

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40 minutes ago, champatsch said:

Interestingly, I know of one influential LDS church member who hopes the Kirtland Temple stays in the hands of the CoC, so it stays open and as is.

How influential can he be if he can't influence the Church to not close it and not change it, if'n they ever buy it?

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The influential didn't necessarily go with "LDS church" here.  He has some influence with CoC leadership. He meets with them on occasion, counseling with them.

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54 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I think this is an odd thing to say.  How is it a big "game-changer in Mormon history" to purchase these documents?

I can see that it's great to have these in our possession, but a "game-changer"?  

It's also nice that this helps out the CofC.  I wonder where all the 35 million came from though....that's a whole lot of donations!  I do know there are some very wealthy members of the church.

Those are the historian’s words, and he is obviously excited about the potential for a renewal of general interest in Church history, but maybe from the layperson’s perspective the printer’s copy stands as a memorial.

In 1999 President Hinckley announced: “In closing now, I feel impressed to announce that among all of the temples we are constructing, we plan to rebuild the Nauvoo Temple. A member of the Church and his family have provided a very substantial contribution to make this possible. We are grateful to him… And the new building will stand as a memorial to those who built the first such structure there on the banks of the Mississippi.” https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1999/04/thanks-to-the-lord-for-his-blessings?lang=eng

Obtaining something that stands as a memorial might be considered a game-changer in that it expands the memory of later generations who might otherwise forget or let go. The Israelites had the contents of the ark; Joseph saw the relics from the stone box. In a digital age, the possession of the original represents a significant shift in the current manner of doing or thinking about something -- perhaps in this case having to do with possessing a tangible and material original rather than a digital and electronic copy. Our roots are always primitive.

Related to this, I see both the Nauvoo temple and the printer’s copy as a reclamation of our history, which is an assertive move and so for any group offers a game-changing shift in attitudes.

Edited by CV75

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47 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Even if the Church bought it I can't see them turning it into a temple with endowments. Nauvoo was somewhat different due to it first being destroyed not long after the Mormons left. So effectively the Church was rebuilding a building. The interior isn't even based on the original. Kirtland on the other hand never was used for higher ordinances, is in good condition, and arguably would be almost impossible to use for endowments/marriages without basically razing it which the Church would never do.

Agreed.
It would likely continue as a historical site, or barring that, be used as a tabernacle.

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18 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Those are the historian’s words, and he is obviously excited about the potential for a renewal of general interest in Church history, but maybe from the layperson’s perspective the printer’s copy stands as a memorial.

In 1999 President Hinckley announced: “In closing now, I feel impressed to announce that among all of the temples we are constructing, we plan to rebuild the Nauvoo Temple. A member of the Church and his family have provided a very substantial contribution to make this possible. We are grateful to him… And the new building will stand as a memorial to those who built the first such structure there on the banks of the Mississippi.” https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1999/04/thanks-to-the-lord-for-his-blessings?lang=eng

Obtaining something that stands as a memorial might be considered a game-changer in that it expands the memory of later generations who might otherwise forget or let go. The Israelites had the contents of the ark; Joseph saw the relics from the stone box. In a digital age, the possession of the original represents a significant shift in the current manner of doing or thinking about something -- perhaps in this case having to do with possessing a tangible and material original rather than a digital and electronic copy. Our roots are always primitive.

Related to this, I see both the Nauvoo temple and the printer’s copy as a reclamation of our history, which is an assertive move and so for any group offers a game-changing shift in attitudes.

Possibly.  I don't see it as such though and find it an odd thing to state.  I can understand the excitement of some though.

A real game-changer would be something that was physical evidence proving that the Book of Mormon was historically factual.  Now that would be a game-changer for most all members.   (Such as finding and authenticating the gold plates, for example :))

Edited by ALarson

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3 hours ago, smac97 said:

I think the comparison to the U.S. Constitution is apt.

I also think it demonstrates just to central The Book of Mormon is to our faith, and how committed the Church is to it.

Interestingly enough they said on the radio that George Washington's personal annotated copy of the Constitution sold for only $9 million.  http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/22/george-washingtons-annotated-constitution-fetches-/

  • Printed and bound in 1789, the book featuring Washington’s signature on the title page sold for a winning bid of $9,826,500 — an amount the venerable auction house said was a world auction record for an American book or historical document.

Apparently we must hold the new world record.

Now the Book of Mormon is much more valuable as far as I am concerned.  Priceless in fact.
But as far as market value goes?  Pretty sure the Church overpayed a bit.

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18 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Possibly.  I don't see it as such though and find it an odd thing to state.  I can understand the excitement of some though.

A real game-changer would be something that was physical evidence proving that the Book of Mormon was historically factual.  Now that would be a game-changer for most all members.   (Such as finding and authenticating the gold plates, for example :))

Just giving the poor historian the benefit of a doubt, LOL

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