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Mormon Newsroom and Suicide

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18 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

How does supporting an amicus brief in opposition to a gay couple who wanted a wedding cake show a new found sensitivity towards young members at risk of suicide? It’s like the Church has two separate departments who never talk to each other - one producing words and  the other determining actions.

My take is that keeping families together and maintaining them as "they should be" will inherently help suicide. That said, I tpreally do not want ot delve into that topic in this thread. If you insist, perhaps, but I really do not want to. 

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12 hours ago, california boy said:

Perhaps if it is such a healthy lifestyle to not get married and not find someone to share your life with and have a family, the church should be telling all youth to never get married.  

I personally have and will continue to tell every gay Mormon that I meet to get as far away from the Mormon church and find a life that is happy and fulfilling and full of joy and love.  That the same blessings and opportunities are available to them as any other person.  That God wants them to have all the blessings and happiness that everyone else is promised.  That forbidding to marry is wrong and against the plan of happiness they have been taught.  That they should look to God for answers and find out for themselves what the right path for them to take.  To not trust church leaders who have misled gay members in the past because of their insisted that they knew the will of God when they did not.

Healthy gays that have the same expectations and hopes and dreams as everyone else are not the ones committing suicide.  

This reminds me of an idea I got based on a reply from another recent thread. That reply connected suicide being high among gays. Although I think it's overexaggerated it is, I think, epidemic and should be addressed. That said, the memtioned reply made me think quivkly sbout all the persecutions Christians have faced for centuries. From lands controlled by the Romans, to Russia, to Japan, persecutions have been persistent and at times downright horrific. Even modern-day times we are witnessing the purging of Christians by groups lime ISIS. Yet, despite the barbaric cruelty inflicted upon Christians, you do not hear of mass suicides in Christian history. That is not to say at all that Christians have not been, nor are, immune from suicide. They most indeed are not. But why so different a picture between Christians communities, and gay communities? What is it about Christianity, and religious communities in general, which seem to result in great strength despite persecution? And whatever you can come up with, why has here not been an equal result among the gay community? 

Just a thought. 

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7 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

California Boy:

Sometimes (relatively often, I would say) not getting married happens less by design than it happens by default, for both gay people and for straight people.  As much as I might like to be married and I might wish I were married, and as much as I might be tempted, mentally, to roll my eyes and to sigh at the next tale of celestially-wedded bliss I hear in a young couple’s testimony at Church or at the next address, lesson, or comment I hear on that subject, I don’t want the Church of Jesus Christ to stop preaching the ideal simply because I haven’t achieved it yet: If that were my standard, we’d have to cut out 90% of the things I hear in church period, let alone just the things I hear about celestial marriage. ;) 

I’m not given to schadenfreude.  My first response upon hearing a tale from Someone Else Who is A Solitary Figure, Seemingly Sentenced to Singleness, is not to exult mentally, “Yessss! Someone else feels my pain!!!” Bwah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah!  Among the crosses I bear is that I happen to be a Confirmed Bachelor in a Church which places a high premium on marriage.  I can’t speak for anyone else (and of course, the degree of pain or discomfort any person feels in any given circumstance is likely to vary based on what other crosses that person happens to bear, on his other life experiences, on his attitude and outlook, and so on), but you know what?  If someone were to invite me, in the spirit of bearing my burdens that they may be light (see Mosiah 18), “Tell me about the crosses you bear,” and if the first thing I happen to mention is, “Well, I’m single, and the female of the species, collectively and in its entirety, ignores me,” I wouldn’t blame that person for being underwhelmed and saying (even if he’s polite enough to not say this in so many words), “Oh, is that all?  Cry me a river!” :rolleyes: 

The truth is that, while being a Confirmed Bachelor in a family church is on my list of “issues,” it’s relatively far down that list.  I have a feeling that, if-and-when I am able to take care of some of the other issues on my list (though I cannot say when that might occur, if ever, at least, not in this life) the “marriage issue” will take care of itself.  As much as I’m tempted to ask, “Lord, why hast Thou dealt with me thus?” about various issues (among which being single long term is only one), I simply have to remind myself of two things: (1) God is a Sovereign; and (2) He loves me.  And His love for me is not contingent on what blessings He sees fit to bestow upon me or upon when He sees fit to bestow them.   

In fact, I’m not even given to schadenfreude for gay couples.  If someone were to ask me what the positions of the Church of Jesus Christ are with respect to chastity, fidelity, and marriage, and if he were to manifest an open mind and an open heart, along with a determination to not dismiss those positions out-of-hand (as unpopular as those positions are becoming in our allegedly-enlightened society), certainly, I would have a ready answer.  On the other hand, I cannot and would not force anyone else to accept my paradigm.  If he chooses to enter into a gay marriage, I would hope that he and his partner find long-term happiness (as foreign as such a prospect might be to my paradigm).  Yes, I could discourse at length on the prospect of that happening in the next life according to my paradigm, but, without a willing, ready, receptive audience, such discourse is unlikely to be effective. (I will not hesitate to impart Living Water to anyone who manifests a need and a desire for it, but trying to do so when such a desire is absent strikes me as the equivalent of attempting to impart Living Water through a fire hose set at full blast.)  

If a person I know to be gay were to manifest a desire to be faithful to the teachings of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ and were to ask me about his prospects for happiness in this life, I would tell him that as important as marriage is, it is not a sin qua non for such happiness.  If he were to ask me about his lot in the life to come (and even if he were to tell me, “I won’t have any desire to be straight in the next life, either”) I would remind him that this is only the Second Act, that we don’t remember the First Act because of the veil of forgetfulness, and that the Third Act hasn’t happened yet.  Does he have a uniquely-tough row to hoe?  Perhaps, but the greater the tribulation faithfully endured, the greater the blessing that will result from such faithful endurance.  As I’ve said so many times before, if we’re faithful, the Omnipotent, Omniscient, All-Loving Lord of the Universe isn’t going to have to tell any of us (straight or gay), when we get to the next life, “I know you were expecting something more, or something better, or at least something different, and I know this means that it sucks to be you, but … sorry.  This is the best I could do.”  

Your reasoning here is fallacious: Marriage is important, but it is not a sin qua non for happiness.  There are plenty of unhappy married people (both straight and gay) who, both for reasons having to do with marriage and for reasons having nothing to do with marriage, experience a lack of happiness, of fulfillment, of joy, and of love.  And there are plenty of unmarried people who experience an abundance of happiness, of fulfillment, of joy, and of love, their unmarried status notwithstanding.   And while you’re welcome to preach that message to anyone who will listen, I’m glad there are those, few though they may be, who won’t listen:.  I’m glad that Courtney and Michelle won’t listen:  http://www.ldsdaily.com/personal-lds-blog/splitting-sky-courtney-rachelle/.  I’m glad that Tom Christofferson won’t listen: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865688689/Gay-brother-of-Mormon-apostle-shares-his-spiritual-journey.htmlhttps://www.amazon.com/That-We-May-One-Perspective-ebook/dp/B075DJ2WF6; and there are others, including some on this Board.  

I won't deny that it's a huge earthly sacrifice to ask someone who is gay to strive earnestly live, in full, the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.  If someone's perspective and priorities are such that he considers that to be too big of a sacrifice, and if he seeks (and even if he happens to find) earthly happiness elsewhere, more power to him: I cannot and will not demand that he accept my paradigm.  But, as I point out in my previous paragraph, gay marriage isn't a one-size-fits-all solution to the problems gays face.   

True.  I have a sneaking suspicion that you and I would interpret that statement vastly differently, and/or that each of us would assess its implications differently, but, yes, that is a true statement.  Mortality’s only the Second Act: I would never tell anyone, “Well, if you’re going to get [happiness/joy/love/fulfillment/et cetera, ad infinitum] you’d better get it here and now, because this will be your only chance.”  In my opinion, that’s just as much one of Satan’s lies as, “You’ll never get any of those things” or "You'll never get any of those things if you don't get married" is.  

Again, that’s true, but that sneaking suspicion is back: Again, I think you and I would interpret that statement vastly differently, and/or that each of us would assess its implications differently, but yes, that is a true statement.  Again, mortality’s only the Second Act, and I would never tell anyone, “Well, if you’re going to get [happiness/joy/love/fulfillment/et cetera, ad infinitum], you’d better get it here and now, because this will be your only chance.”  Yes, perhaps gays do have a uniquely tough row to hoe, but that’s not the only circumstance which interferes with the attainment of all of those objectives.  It’s simply one in a very long list of mortality’s innumerable vicissitudes.

 

Can we get the heart feature back just so I can give this post a heart and not a mere like? 

Superb! 

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5 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Can we get the heart feature back just so I can give this post a heart and not a mere like? 

Superb! 

Mine is a heart...is yours an arrow?  I want an arrow, can we trade?

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17 hours ago, california boy said:

I wish you and everyone else  nothing but the best for their lives, however they choose to live it.  But it is entirely their choice.  Gays do not have a rough road to hoe as you assert, any more than anyone else does.  They have the opportunity to make the exact same choices and choose a life that will be rich and fulfilling just like everyone else.  

Trusting in God is always a better bet than trusting in anyone who claims to speak for God.  We have learned by sad experience that when such claims have been made, especially on this issue, that has not been true.  How one chooses to live his life is between them and God, no one else.  The choices they make should be done after careful prayer and inspiration from God, not from a church handbook that seems to change on a regular basis.  That is the hard lesson I have learned and that is the message I would give anyone who wants to know the will of God on how they should live their lives.

"Gays do not have a rough road to hoe as you assert, any more than anyone else does." - Kengo placed this expression in the context of the teachings and standards of the LDS Church. The very church you previously said you'd advise all gays to runn far away from. 

I disagree with the depiction you have had about people speaking on behalf on the Lord but the gist of you second paragraph I do agree with. 

Edited by Darren10

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11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

When I was a child I was at the mercy of everyone around me. That lack of control was frustrating.

It's not a perfect solution (in the way adulthood is), but I think this is one of the main reasons why it's so important that we get Aaronic Priesthood and Young Women leadership right. Kids spend all day everyday being bossed around by teachers, coaches, bus drivers, neighbours, etc., and then they come to Church and preside over an organisation that requires them to lead, to sit in council with fellow youth, etc. It's brilliant!

Quote

When a teen claims that adults do not understand they are usually right unless said adult has a very good memory of the emotional content of their own journey. Many adults forget what it was like for unimportant minutiae to be world shattering.

I didn't even realise this point till a few years ago. I find it easy to tolerate young men because I feel like it was only a few weeks ago that I was one of them, and I have a clear recollection of what that was like. I mentioned that to one of the counsellors then serving in our bishopric, and he said he had no idea what I was talking about, that he finds the young men a complete mystery. They just make sense to me.

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5 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

It's not a perfect solution (in the way adulthood is), but I think this is one of the main reasons why it's so important that we get Aaronic Priesthood and Young Women leadership right. Kids spend all day everyday being bossed around by teachers, coaches, bus drivers, neighbours, etc., and then they come to Church and preside over an organisation that requires them to lead, to sit in council with fellow youth, etc. It's brilliant!

I didn't even realise this point till a few years ago. I find it easy to tolerate young men because I feel like it was only a few weeks ago that I was one of them, and I have a clear recollection of what that was like. I mentioned that to one of the counsellors then serving in our bishopric, and he said he had no idea what I was talking about, that he finds the young men a complete mystery. They just make sense to me.

I agree and feel kind of the same way. Then again sometimes I think I just never really grew up:

lease.png

I remember when I told my youngest sister that most people including me are really faking their way through life. She seemed very relieved and reassured. Maybe I am mistaken and other people do have it figured out. ;) 

If it turns out I am wrong I am going to use the "be as a little child" line to bluff my way into heaven on a technicality. :) 

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1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

I agree and feel kind of the same way. Then again sometimes I think I just never really grew up:

Yeah, I was thinking that about myself but didn't quite get to the point of posting it ...

Quote

Maybe I am mistaken and other people do have it figured out.

For a long time, I thought everyone else was faking it -- and I still think many are; my parents certainly did! -- but interactions such as the one I described above have challenged the totality of my assumption. I now genuinely think some (many?) people really feel all grown up and have forgot what it's like to feel young and vulnerable and awkward.

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16 hours ago, Calm said:

But we aren't proheterosexual marriage either because we aren't telling our kids it is great to marry anyone of the opposite sex, but telling them don't marry until you can marry someone of your own faith and then in the temple,e if possible.  That rules out most of humanity at this point.

I get what you are saying overall but this phrease, "we aren't proheterosexual marriage either", confuses me.

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WE, THE FIRST PRESIDENCY and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng&old=true

In this proclamation, it mentions "heavenly parents". I find we are hearing that more and more. If that's accurate I don't think it coincidental to hear it with more frequency at a time when the world is rapantly redefining marriage through law. From the LDS persoective, marriage is, point blank, "solomn" and "between a man and a woman". Even in times when polygamy has been allowed, marriage was between man and woman. It is absolutely proheterosexual in that sense. Was there a nuance I missed in your statement? 

Furthermore, the position of what marriage is, and even what gender roles are, are reiterated and spelled out further in the proclamation:

Quote

THE FAMILY is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

Lastly,

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WE WARN that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

In the LDS view, the "law of chastity" is not only within marriage but between man and woman. While this paragraph expressly mentions "covenants", the overall position of the LDS Church means that all homosexual sexual relations are a violation of chastity, is it not? 

Edited by Darren10

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34 minutes ago, Calm said:

Mine is a heart...is yours an arrow?  I want an arrow, can we trade?

Absolutely! :)

I have a heart to like but there's no more heart plus arrow anymore. I loved Kengo's post, not just liked it. :)

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25 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Yeah, I was thinking that about myself but didn't quite get to the point of posting it ...

For a long time, I thought everyone else was faking it -- and I still think many are; my parents certainly did! -- but interactions such as the one I described above have challenged the totality of my assumption. I now genuinely think some (many?) people really feel all grown up and have forgot what it's like to feel young and vulnerable and awkward.

Possibly, but they are probably fooling themselves they are acting for mature reasons.

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21 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

I get what you are saying overall but this phrease, "we aren't proheterosexual marriage either", confuses me.

https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng&old=true

In this proclamation, it mentions "heavenly parents". I find we are hearing that more and more. If that's accurate I don't think it coincidental to hear it with more frequency at a time when the world is rapantly redefining marriage through law. From the LDS persoective, marriage is, point blank, "solomn" and "between a man and a woman". Even in times when polygamy has been allowed, marriage was between man and woman. It is absolutely proheterosexual in that sense. Was there a nuance I missed in your statement? 

Furthermore, the position of what marruage is, and even what gender roles are, are rieterated and soelled out further in the proclamation:

Lastly,

In the LDS view, the "law of chastity" is not only within marriage but between man and woman. While tis paragraph sxpressly mentions "covenants", the overall position of the LDS Church means that all homosexual sexual relations are a violation of chastity, is it not? 

What .I am saying is we don't cultivate/nurture all forms of heterosexual marriage given that we don't just instruct our kids to go out and find someone of the opposite sex they want to marry, but we tell them to limit their choice to church members and faithful church members who can take them to the temple.

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8 hours ago, Calm said:

So what of the families with two parents having kids with anxieties, etc?  Most of the kids I know with severe problems are in stable homes with two parents (most families I know are stable, two parents; not saying higher rates for single parent families is unlikely, just saying I don't see it as the only or primary issue).

Drugs, in our case...both as a cause of anxiety and a result of anxiety (self-medication). Also, having sexual experiences too early and exposure to pornography make the problems worse.

Edited by Bernard Gui

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Looking back I have much less anxiety and stress in my life now then I did as a child and a teenager. Now I have much more control over the direction of my life, make more choices, and can at least fool myself into believing I have some idea of what I am doing.

When I was a child I was at the mercy of everyone around me. That lack of control was frustrating.

When I remember my teen years most of my stress was over transitory silly stuff but I remember that as a teen I was crazy about how much stuff mattered. When a teen claims that adults do not understand they are usually right unless said adult has a very good memory of the emotional content of their own journey. Many adults forget what it was like for unimportant minutiae to be world shattering.

My personal guess as to why kids are having so many problems is a general lack of unstructured time. I look back at my childhood playing with the neighborhood kids on the hills around our home and just coming home for dinner. I do not see that any more. My parents would be looked at as negligent if they did not see me for a few hours if they were raising me now. We have a hyper protectionist instinct over children that feeds anxiety. We give them school and homework time obligations that seems downright abusive compared to a normal 40 hour work week. We put them into organized classes for everything. This is just a amateur guess though. I am sadly not a parent so I am not an expert.

We were talking about this at our extended family dinner tonight. Sister Gui teaches kindergarten. Our oldest son Artisticosso taught in a daycare facility for a while. They both have observed numerous kids who are dropped off at daycare at 6am so mommy and daddy can get to work, picked up after school by a friend, relative, or the daycare bus, get dropped off back at the kindercare until mommy or daddy pick them up at 5 or 6 pm to go home for a take-out dinner, to bed, and back again the next day. One Friday a month is "Parents Night Out" so the parents can drop them off again in the evening to go on a date. That would be 14 to 16 hours when the kids are away from home under someone else's care. The village raising the child. Artisticosso noted that for many kids, this pattern of daycare warehousing started at age 18 months and went on through their primary school years.

Sister Gui observed that her kids in this situation are emotionally and physically exhausted by lunch time and struggle to make it through the afternoon. She has kids who just give up and put their heads on their desks, act out in bizarre ways, or get down on the floor and sob and cry for mommy.  Rather than get angry, she gives them a little stuffed animal to hold while they rest in a quiet space, and tells them they can join the class again when they feel better. Many of her problem kids attend the same over-crowded day care. And now our state wants to impose mandatory pre-school for four-year-olds!

I can't imagine being a little kid in those circumstances. This can't be good for their mental health...especially anxiety, don't you think?

 

Edited by Bernard Gui

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

What .I am saying is we don't cultivate/nurture all forms of heterosexual marriage given that we don't just instruct our kids to go out and find someone of the opposite sex they want to marry, but we tell them to limit their choice to church members and faithful church members who can take them to the temple.

Oh, I'm sorry. I read your "because" in the sentence, " But we aren't proheterosexual marriage either because we aren't telling our kids it is great to marry anyone of the opposite sex, but telling them don't marry until you can marry someone of your own faith and then in the temple,e if possible," as "this is the reason we are not proheterosexual". Instead I should have read it as summing up the poster you were replying to. 

My bad. 

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18 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Oh, I'm sorry. I read your "because" in the sentence, " But we aren't proheterosexual marriage either because we aren't telling our kids it is great to marry anyone of the opposite sex, but telling them don't marry until you can marry someone of your own faith and then in the temple,e if possible," as "this is the reason we are not proheterosexual". Instead I should have read it as summing up the poster you were replying to. 

My bad. 

No, I think you got it right the first time.

Do we tell our kids in the Church it is okay to marry someone of the opposite sex or do we put qualifications on our encouragement?

"President Gordon B. Hinckley has counseled that marriage “will be the most important decision of your life. … Marry the right person in the right place at the right time.” 1 But who is the right person? Where is the right place? When is the right time?

Fortunately, President Hinckley and other Church leaders have given us inspired counsel concerning these questions. Moreover, some 60 years of research confirms the wisdom of their counsel.

The right place is, of course, the temple. “There is no substitute for marrying in the temple,” counsels President Hinckley. “It is the only place under the heavens where marriage can be solemnized for eternity. Don’t cheat yourself. Don’t cheat your companion. Don’t shortchange your lives.” 2...

Choose a companion of your own faith. You are much more likely to be happy,” said President Hinckley. “Choose a companion you can always honor, you can always respect, one who will complement you in your own life, one to whom you can give your entire heart, your entire love, your entire allegiance, your entire loyalty.” 7"

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/09/choosing-and-being-the-right-spouse?lang=eng

"I would like to express the hope we all have for you, which is so real, that you will be exalted in the highest degree of glory in the celestial kingdom and that you will enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage.

Dear sisters, never lose sight of this sacred goal. Prayerfully prepare for it and live for it. Be married the Lord’s way. Temple marriage is a gospel ordinance of exaltation. Our Father in Heaven wants each of His daughters to have this eternal blessing.

Therefore, don’t trifle away your happiness by involvement with someone who cannot take you worthily to the temple. Make a decision now that this is the place where you will marry. To leave that decision until a romantic involvement develops is to take a risk the importance of which you cannot now fully calculate.

And remember, you are not required to lower your standards in order to get a mate. Keep yourselves attractive, maintain high standards, maintain your self-respect. Do not engage in intimacies that bring heartache and sorrow. Place yourselves in a position to meet worthy men and be engaged in constructive activities."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1988/10/to-the-single-adult-sisters-of-the-church?lang=eng

For members of our church at least, we are proheterosexual same faith marriage, not proheterosexual mixed faith marriage.  We won't discipline someone who marries a nonmember and will support them after the choice, but there is little encouragement or support for marriage with a nonmember prior to it occurring.

Edited by Calm

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8 hours ago, Calm said:

No, I think you got it right the first time.

Do we tell our kids in the Church it is okay to marry someone of the opposite sex or do we put qualifications on our encouragement?

"President Gordon B. Hinckley has counseled that marriage “will be the most important decision of your life. … Marry the right person in the right place at the right time.” 1 But who is the right person? Where is the right place? When is the right time?

Fortunately, President Hinckley and other Church leaders have given us inspired counsel concerning these questions. Moreover, some 60 years of research confirms the wisdom of their counsel.

The right place is, of course, the temple. “There is no substitute for marrying in the temple,” counsels President Hinckley. “It is the only place under the heavens where marriage can be solemnized for eternity. Don’t cheat yourself. Don’t cheat your companion. Don’t shortchange your lives.” 2...

Choose a companion of your own faith. You are much more likely to be happy,” said President Hinckley. “Choose a companion you can always honor, you can always respect, one who will complement you in your own life, one to whom you can give your entire heart, your entire love, your entire allegiance, your entire loyalty.” 7"

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/09/choosing-and-being-the-right-spouse?lang=eng

"I would like to express the hope we all have for you, which is so real, that you will be exalted in the highest degree of glory in the celestial kingdom and that you will enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage.

Dear sisters, never lose sight of this sacred goal. Prayerfully prepare for it and live for it. Be married the Lord’s way. Temple marriage is a gospel ordinance of exaltation. Our Father in Heaven wants each of His daughters to have this eternal blessing.

Therefore, don’t trifle away your happiness by involvement with someone who cannot take you worthily to the temple. Make a decision now that this is the place where you will marry. To leave that decision until a romantic involvement develops is to take a risk the importance of which you cannot now fully calculate.

And remember, you are not required to lower your standards in order to get a mate. Keep yourselves attractive, maintain high standards, maintain your self-respect. Do not engage in intimacies that bring heartache and sorrow. Place yourselves in a position to meet worthy men and be engaged in constructive activities."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1988/10/to-the-single-adult-sisters-of-the-church?lang=eng

For members of our church at least, we are proheterosexual same faith marriage, not proheterosexual mixed faith marriage.  We won't discipline someone who marries a nonmember and will support them after the choice, but there is little encouragement or support for marriage with a nonmember prior to it occurring.

"Do we tell our kids in the Church it is okay to marry someone of the opposite sex or do we put qualifications on our encouragement?"

We do both.

""President Gordon B. Hinckley has counseled that marriage “will be the most important decision of your life. … Marry the right person in the right place at the right time.” 1 But who is the right person? Where is the right place? When is the right time?"

1) According to the Church, the "right person" is a person of your choice. The only qualifications from the Church I can think of would that the person you choose is a person of the opposite gender and that the marriage is legal in the place you marry. 

2) The temple

3) When you're ready unless the Lord does something like call you on a mission. Even then I cannot think of any marriage being put off in the LDS community due to a calling from God and the Church bring OK with it. 

As for your citations, I agree but I fail to see how the Church is not proheterosexual. Are you are saying that the Church is not *only* proheterosexual? If so, I agree. 

Edited by Darren10

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I suffered anxiety and depression for a while when I was younger. It stopped being aa significant a problem for me when I started really exercising faith in Christ.

it's impossible to feel worthless when you feel the truth that someone loves you so much that they gave their life for you. That they carried your pain. When you feel the the love of God in your life it changes you.

when I felt that love, I had hope again. I made changes that were keeping me down. Particularly I how I take care of my body.

life isn't perfect, but we need to get more people feeling the love of Christ and the fruits of the Spirit. Sometimes that means a leap of faith

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Unfortunately depression and anxiety can prevent you from feeling that love or believing it is real.

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6 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

I suffered anxiety and depression for a while when I was younger. It stopped being aa significant a problem for me when I started really exercising faith in Christ.

it's impossible to feel worthless when you feel the truth that someone loves you so much that they gave their life for you. That they carried your pain. When you feel the the love of God in your life it changes you.

when I felt that love, I had hope again. I made changes that were keeping me down. Particularly I how I take care of my body.

life isn't perfect, but we need to get more people feeling the love of Christ and the fruits of the Spirit. Sometimes that means a leap of faith

I'm glad you've found peace in your life.  While I doubt you mean for your comment to be taken this way, I'm reminded of Cher's repeated line from the movie Moonstruck: "Snap out of it!" :D  You're right that a change in perspective can be beneficial.  It's like, say, the difference between seeing, from a fair distance, a piece of paper with a relatively small figure drawn on it.  Because you see the paper and the figure from a distance, you're free to focus on other things within your field of vision as you choose.  The closer that paper gets, however, the more it obscures other things in an onlooker's field of vision until, when it finally gets close enough, it's the only thing a person can see.  Behavioral disorders such as depression are like that.  Others can point out all of the myriad marvelous things they can see, but even all of those wonderful things don't matter to the depressed person because of how his field of vision is dominated by (and hence is limited to, and his ability to see other things limited by) that one thing which dominates his field of vision.  See also here, for what it's worth: https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2014/05/30/absent-or-not-perceived/

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On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 9:01 PM, The Nehor said:

...My personal guess as to why kids are having so many problems is a general lack of unstructured time. I look back at my childhood playing with the neighborhood kids on the hills around our home and just coming home for dinner. I do not see that any more. My parents would be looked at as negligent if they did not see me for a few hours if they were raising me now. We have a hyper protectionist instinct over children that feeds anxiety. We give them school and homework time obligations that seems downright abusive compared to a normal 40 hour work week. We put them into organized classes for everything. This is just a amateur guess though. I am sadly not a parent so I am not an expert.

Finland has attempted to get rid of homework...and in the process, their schools are ranked best in the world for learning. Imagine that.

 

Teachers there say it's important to have free time to be a kid with friends and with one's own family. Very much in line with what you're saying.

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7 minutes ago, hagoth7 said:

Finland has attempted to get rid of homework...and in the process, their schools are ranked best in the world for learning. Imagine that.

I'm completely over most homework.

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1 hour ago, hagoth7 said:

Finland has attempted to get rid of homework...and in the process, their schools are ranked best in the world for learning. Imagine that.

 

Teachers there say it's important to have free time to be a kid with friends and with one's own family. Very much in line with what you're saying.

I always knew I liked Finland.

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