MormonLeaks: Snuffer/Remnant believers

[Scott Lloyd]

51 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

All depends on your POV, lots of people in this world think your average Mormon fits those descriptions.  

If it all depends on your point of view, that means, contrary to your assertion, you don't "have to admire" it for its own sake. Right?

The Nazis in 1940s Germany were nothing if not tenacious and committed. But I don't "admire" them for that, nor do I feel obliged to.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[hope_for_things]

5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If it all depends on your point of view, that means, contrary to your assertion, you don't "have to admire" it for its own sake. Right?

The Nazis in 1940s Germany were nothing if not tenacious and committed. But I don't "admire" them for that, nor do I feel obliged to..

 ha.... ok, yes if you're taking my statement as a literal command.  No-one is being forced to admire these people, carry on not admiring...  

[Scott Lloyd]

18 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

 ha.... ok, yes if you're taking my statement as a literal command.  No-one is being forced to admire these people, carry on not admiring...  

Which causes me to wonder how you intended your statement to be taken.

If, by telling us we "have to admire" the zeal of the Snufferites, you intend it as an expression meaning "I feel compelled to admire" their zeal, I would still challenge it for the reason I have stated, i.e. zeal alone is not a quality that must necessarily be admired for its own sake.

But to each his own.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[hope_for_things]

29 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Which causes me to wonder how you intended your statement to be taken.

If, by telling us we "have to admire" the zeal of the Snufferites, you intend it as an expression meaning "I feel compelled to admire" their zeal, I would still challenge it for the reason I have stated, i.e. zeal alone is not a quality that must necessarily be admired for its own sake.

But to each his own.

I just meant it as an expression, a figure of speech.  I do think there is something to admire in the commitment they have to their cause.  I personally don't want to emulate those attributes though, not a cause I'm interested in.  

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

 

??????

A joke. I work as a tech writer and have strong quasireligious feelings about the Oxford comma and, to a lesser degree, the AP style.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If it all depends on your point of view, that means, contrary to your assertion, you don't "have to admire" it for its own sake. Right?

The Nazis in 1940s Germany were nothing if not tenacious and committed. But I don't "admire" them for that, nor do I feel obliged to.

 

"I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."

Edited August 24, 2017 by The Nehor

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

I just meant it as an expression, a figure of speech.  I do think there is something to admire in the commitment they have to their cause.  I personally don't want to emulate those attributes though, not a cause I'm interested in.  

And again I say that zeal in a cause that, at least in theory, is not praiseworthy is not something to be admired, on any level. I submitted National Socialism as an extreme illustration.

So obviously, we clash diametrically on this question. Again, to each his own.

 

[hope_for_things]

44 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

And again I say that zeal in a cause that, at least in theory, is not praiseworthy is not something to be admired, on any level. I submitted National Socialism as an extreme illustration.

So obviously, we clash diametrically on this question. Again, to each his own.

Very similar to the zeal that Mormon missionaries have, and the way many non-Mormons look at the missionary work that we do.  If you admire the evangelical zeal of Mormon missionaries, then a lot of other people likely feel the same way about Mormons as you do about these Snufferites.  A much better comparison than National Socialism.  

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, hope_for_things said:

Very similar to the zeal that Mormon missionaries have, and the way many non-Mormons look at the missionary work that we do.  If you admire the evangelical zeal of Mormon missionaries, then a lot of other people likely feel the same way about Mormons as you do about these Snufferites.  A much better comparison than National Socialism.  

My consistent position is that zeal is not necessarily praiseworthy, though it can be.

[e-eye]

23 hours ago, rockpond said:

Do you have anything to support that last statement?  The members I know who have been re-baptized and joined the movement were very much active, believing, and "in".  But I admittedly don't know many. 

 

My last statement was on the sifting that we would have among the members -  Here are a couple quotes for you.

Neal A Maxwell:

"So let us look at ourselves. For the Church, the scriptures suggest both an accelerated sifting and accelerated spiritual and numerical growth—with all this preceding the time when the people of God will be “armed with righteousness”—not weapons—and when the Lord’s glory will be poured out upon them (1 Ne. 14:14; see also 1 Pet. 4:17; D&C 112:25). The Lord is determined to have a tried, pure, and proven people (see D&C 100:16; D&C 101:4; D&C 136:31), and “there is nothing that the Lord thy God shall take in his heart to do but what he will do it” (Abr. 3:17)."

 

Heber C Kimball:

After a while the gentiles will gather by the thousands to this place, and Salt Lake City will be classed among the wicked cities of the world. A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints, and the results will be financial bondage.
Persecution comes next and all true Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. Many will apostatize and others will be still not knowing what to do.  Deseret News, May 23, 1931

[Avatar4321]

23 hours ago, The Nehor said:

He is most likely disingenuously doing it to try to fulfill the prophecies regarding a descendant of David or someone by the name David in the Last Days you can pick out of the Old Testament.

Presumably he is claiming to have received it before the keys were taken away. They had to because, according to him, they lost all their power the moment they excommunicated him. Certainly does not lack for a sense of self-importance there does he?

So if the keys were taken away where did he get any?

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

So if the keys were taken away where did he get any?

He takers this honor unto himself.

[llama]

On 8/23/2017 at 5:02 PM, Calm said:

That is the biggest red flag, Imo, especially given the claims he makes of how far gone Brigham Young and other leaders were early on. Would not polygamy have been a huge abuse of authority and would not excommunicating those who refused to accept it as a teaching of Joseph's had qualified to end authority way back then?  Why is he so much more powerful or spiritual or whatever, that rejection of him terminates the authority?  Huge ego.

I think the basic idea is that, if God sent a messenger to the leaders of the LDS Church, and they cast out that messenger, then that would be bad for the leaders.

[llama]

On 8/24/2017 at 2:25 AM, Calm said:

Or perhaps he thinks the Second Anointing is not given by the Church, but is something that can be done on one's own like he sees baptism, etc.

Snuffer doesn't claim the Second Anointing (the one given by apostles to Tom Phillips) but the Second Comforter (the one given by Jesus personally).

[Calm]

6 hours ago, llama said:

Snuffer doesn't claim the Second Anointing (the one given by apostles to Tom Phillips) but the Second Comforter (the one given by Jesus personally).

Thanks for the clarification.

[Avatar4321]

17 hours ago, llama said:

I think the basic idea is that, if God sent a messenger to the leaders of the LDS Church, and they cast out that messenger, then that would be bad for the leaders.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." (John 10:1-5)

[Atheist Mormon]

On 8/23/2017 at 4:05 PM, stemelbow said:

I don't mean to mock.

But reading some of these prophecies/scripture from Denver has me intrigued:

http://scriptures.info/Scriptures/pgp/david/

So much naiveté gives my brain amnesiac spasms.......I have a better candidate for you; those who believes this guy a chance...not so fast...Please try this guy first; For the record this guy lives like a hermit, John the Baptist...His name is Art Bulla. 

[cdowis]

On 8/25/2017 at 1:44 PM, llama said:

I think the basic idea is that, if God sent a messenger to the leaders of the LDS Church, and they cast out that messenger, then that would be bad for the leaders.

D&C 43  

3 And this ye shall know assuredly—that there is noneother appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations until he be taken, if he abide in me.

4 But verily, verily, I say unto you, that none else shall be appointed unto this gift except it be through him; for if it be taken from him he shall not have power except to appoint another in his stead.

5 And this shall be a law unto you, that ye receive not the teachings of any that shall come before you as revelations or commandments;

6 And this I give unto you that you may not be deceived, that you may know they are not of me.

[llama]

http://www.sltrib.com/religion/local/2017/08/27/denver-snuffers-offshoot-is-drawing-away-mormons-with-the-mantra-god-can-talk-to-you-too-but-will-these-freewheeling-fellowships-last/#gallery-carousel-6385679

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, llama said:

http://www.sltrib.com/religion/local/2017/08/27/denver-snuffers-offshoot-is-drawing-away-mormons-with-the-mantra-god-can-talk-to-you-too-but-will-these-freewheeling-fellowships-last/#gallery-carousel-6385679

I just read this. I thought it was interesting how Snuffer demands that no one call him a prophet, yet he is seen as the authoritative source in the movement.

[Calm]

50 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I just read this. I thought it was interesting how Snuffer demands that no one call him a prophet, yet he is seen as the authoritative source in the movement.

And sees himself that way (ultimate authority) in my opinion from the way he acts (primary example, how he altered the women's council procedure by not following the established witness process and expected them to accommodate the change).

Edited August 27, 2017 by Calm

[Avatar4321]

6 hours ago, llama said:

http://www.sltrib.com/religion/local/2017/08/27/denver-snuffers-offshoot-is-drawing-away-mormons-with-the-mantra-god-can-talk-to-you-too-but-will-these-freewheeling-fellowships-last/#gallery-carousel-6385679

Two things struck me:

Quote

"The last known major canonization was in 1672 by the Eastern Orthodox Church, so nothing like this has been seen in orthodox or Protestant Christianity in nearly 350 years,” Chris Hamill, a spokesman for the project, says in a news release. “Not even the Mormon church, or any of its offshoots, ever formally canonized (or accepted by common consent of the membership) all of their scriptures. … This is a very important historical development.”

Last time I checked, we had formally cannonized scripture during general conference at various times. Last time being around 1980 or so.

 

Quote

Whatever his listeners’ personal issues, Snuffer’s message seemed to hit home: Mormonism’s hierarchical and bureaucratic structure had abandoned Smith’s heavenly visions and clarion calls to build Zion. Anyone, he said, could a have mystical encounter with deity — like early Latter-day Saints trumpeted — not just the guy at the top.

I read this line and I'm just thinking " Do they even listen at conference "?

I mean seriously the FP, Twelve, and Seventy spend almost every conference begging us to have our own encounters with God. Take Elder Rasband's talk about seeking guidance from The Holy Spirit.

They teach us to gain a testimony from the Spirit. To Learn and recognize his voice. How to obtain his power in our lives.

Not to mention countless other advice.