Date-onomics

[ttribe]

4 minutes ago, changed said:

If there are any girls out there who want better odds - all you have to do is major in engineering.  Only 14% of engineers are women according to ASME.  

of course, there is a saying amongst engineering women - "engineering - where the odds are good, but the goods are odd."

and another saying by the men - "engineering - where the men are men, and so are the women..." ← which is NOT true, you do not need to be a nerd, or manly, to be an engineer.  You just have to be creative, and have a desire to improve the world through tangible creations.

 

[Duncan]

46 minutes ago, changed said:

If there are any girls out there who want better odds - all you have to do is major in engineering.  Only 14% of engineers are women according to ASME.  

of course, there is a saying amongst engineering women - "engineering - where the odds are good, but the goods are odd."

and another saying by the men - "engineering - where the men are men, and so are the women..." ← which is NOT true, you do not need to be a nerd, or manly, to be an engineer.  You just have to be creative, and have a desire to improve the world through tangible creations.

 

my sister is an engineer, it was like 90% men in her classes, it was rough on her but she did it for 6 years and got her degree

[gopher]

If you aren't intimidated or threatened by strong, educated women, come visit the DC area. Lots of high-powered professionals in both government and private sector.  I think the single adults are still the fastest growing demographic in the area.  The church recently created a DC singles stake.

[The Nehor]

4 minutes ago, gopher said:

If you aren't intimidated or threatened by strong, educated women, come visit the DC area. Lots of high-powered professionals in both government and private sector.  I think the single adults are still the fastest growing demographic in the area.  The church recently created a DC singles stake.

I'm afraid very intelligent women repulse and frighten me.

 

[strappinglad]

 Well, there is always  MGTOW guys. And , by the way Jeanne, I don't think ' Hooking up " means what you think it means.

[The Nehor]

5 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

 Well, there is always  MGTOW guys. And , by the way Jeanne, I don't think ' Hooking up " means what you think it means.

Sorry babe, I am going my own way. I actually suspect the MGTOW is the equivalent of eunuchs bragging about being celibate. Did they really have another option?

[strappinglad]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Sorry babe, I am going my own way. I actually suspect the MGTOW is the equivalent of eunuchs bragging about being celibate. Did they really have another option?

Who you calling ' babe ' , mister ? I haven't been a big blue ox for some time now !

As for MGTOW , I think many see the whole marriage thing as heavily skewed in favor of the female, particularly when it comes to legal aspects, and therefore flee from such commitments.

[Maidservant]

8 hours ago, katherine the great said:

I think most highly educated women would consider marrying a man who is less educated providing he is intelligent and has a good job. (I'm speaking from experience  )

And is kind, respectful, and knows how to relate to a woman--or willing to learn.

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Oh, I am involved in a lot of stuff. Game nights, paddleboarding on the lake, wakeboarding, hiking, sparring. I do not feel limited to Mid-Singles activities. I go to them only rarely. I go to a dance once a year as a remind to myself why I do not go to dances.

Well the girls are missing out, haha. Now hopefully you're not too picky, like some men. Some men are too concerned with weight on women. And they are missing out on a truly beautiful human being. But I don't want to have a conversation about that necessarily, just hope that's not the case. I know a few men like this, and I always think what they're missing out on. 

[The Nehor]

42 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Well the girls are missing out, haha. Now hopefully you're not too picky, like some men. Some men are too concerned with weight on women. And they are missing out on a truly beautiful human being. But I don't want to have a conversation about that necessarily, just hope that's not the case. I know a few men like this, and I always think what they're missing out on. 

I am picky in some ways. In some ways not.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, strappinglad said:

Who you calling ' babe ' , mister ? I haven't been a big blue ox for some time now !

As for MGTOW , I think many see the whole marriage thing as heavily skewed in favor of the female, particularly when it comes to legal aspects, and therefore flee from such commitments.

That was a MGTOW meme thing for a while. It was not addressed to you specifically unless you want it to be.

[mfbukowski]

11 hours ago, katherine the great said:

I think most highly educated women would consider marrying a man who is less educated providing he is intelligent and has a good job. (I'm speaking from experience  )

I mean I write a 500 word essay and get one or two rep points.

You make one simple but smart statement and get a ton of rep points.  

Jeeesh, it just ain't fair.

 

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, Maidservant said:

And is kind, respectful, and knows how to relate to a woman--or willing to learn.

Dang, I knew there was a catch!

[Calm]

9 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Rare...but happened to a girl home from college in my ward this summer. She had to repeatedly and forcefully tell the guy she was not interested and get her family involved to keep him away. He believes God told him they were destined to be together and the scariest part is he really believes it.

The guy may have chased her, but she did not go along with it.  The real story rarely, if ever, ends the way the Mormon folklore does.

I am not saying the one sided belief of destined revealed love is rare, just the alleged outcome of marrying him and then discovering he is a vicious abuser or whatever (most cases I saw, the guy is so insecure the only way they get brave enough to engage in romantic conversation is by convincing themselves God is their wingman and in a relationship, I would expect the guy to be the victim of abuse, not the reverse).

I would not be surprised if there were a number of men and women certain they know that someone they want to love them is their destiny.  Sometimes this is just exhibited by wishful thinking.  In Mormon culture, it is revelation that plays the role of divine involvement.  My first roommate at BYU had an obsessive crush on Donny Osmond, joined the Church and came to BYU in part in hopes of meeting him.  I can't remember if she was active in her desire beyond that or intent on leaving it to fate, but something I can't remember made me very concerned she was way too invested in being Sister Osmond.  I played Trickster Fate by suggesting to the Branch President or his deputy that our home teacher be a certain drop dead gorgeous, smart, sweet...Iow the most personable young man in our ward and the only one I knew who caused her to drop her laser tight attention on all things Donny. It worked well for those weeks and I hoped once we parted Donny would become a fond memory and no longer the center of her universe. I have forgotten her name so no tracing down to fine out if she found a man to woo her away from Donny.

For myself, I had a young man or two (three if you count high school...the fourth was an atheist and was just more stalker type of pressure) misunderstand and take my attention of them as individuals and efforts not to judge them on dating qualities as the opposite...unfortunately my attempt to be respectful and supportive backfired with some stalker like destiny proposal, especially from one that ended up across the bay on his mission from where I lived, 1 hour away, but out of his zone.  And I made it clear I found him visiting out of his zone unacceptable.

IOW, I have plenty of anecdotal evidence there is or at least was a large continginent of men who seemed to either buy into destiny marriages or thought girls did...and girls who thought the same about the men they were certain to marry.  And some even used the idea to try and manipulate others.  They were never the same couple that I could tell though.  All the targets of affection I was aware of either  ignored them, blew them off gently, but persistently or did a face to face "you are wrong, I am not marrying you" in hopes of bringing them to their senses.

I have never heard that someone actually accepted it as revelation and got married, even in the dozen or so obsessions I knew about.  I think that version rests firmly under the category of Mormon folklore.

[deli_llama]

12 hours ago, Calm said:

I played Trickster Fate by suggesting to the …

 You are either very foolish, or very brave. Or both. That is a knife-edged path. 

[Calm]

Very young, very foolish.  First time away from home, first time dealing with someone on my own with what appeared to me as emotional instability...learned since then there are those who thrive on drama and everything is a life or death matter to them.  

I never did anything like that again even though it appeared to help a great deal (she was happy and engaged in the social scene).

I think the Lord was quite kind.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Calm

[katherine the great]

14 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I mean I write a 500 word essay and get one or two rep points.

You make one simple but smart statement and get a ton of rep points.  

Jeeesh, it just ain't fair.

 

Lol! Less is more? 

[Jeanne]

Any two people who can bring out the best in each other...wins!  Values and character doesn't hold a candle to a degree in anything IMO.

[Stargazer]

On 8/15/2017 at 9:00 AM, HappyJackWagon said:

Basically the premise is that most educated men and women marry each other.

I find this unconvincing for a premise.

It might be true that more women than men graduate from college these days, but that is only these days.

Go back past 50 years ago the reverse was true.  And educated men seemed to be happy to marry uneducated women.  Mainly because there weren't that many educated women.  Is it because educated men don't mind marrying "down", but do mind marrying "up"?  I mean "up" and "down" in the sense of marrying someone of lesser or greater education, not in any qualitative sense.

Personally, I believe that the problem now may be that a goodly fraction of those educated women have internalized certain uber-feminist ideals (to quote Gloria Steinem, "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle"), and so jump into their careers without consideration for future permanent partners or children, and by the time they get around to seeing to those things, the pool of educated men has dried up and their biological clocks are ticking down. So even if they do manage to find partners, they won't be able have the children they might have wanted to have.

Of course, in so saying I better watch out because the thought police may be out to get me.

[The Nehor]

6 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I find this unconvincing for a premise.

It might be true that more women than men graduate from college these days, but that is only these days.

Go back past 50 years ago the reverse was true.  And educated men seemed to be happy to marry uneducated women.  Mainly because there weren't that many educated women.  Is it because educated men don't mind marrying "down", but do mind marrying "up"?  I mean "up" and "down" in the sense of marrying someone of lesser or greater education, not in any qualitative sense.

Personally, I believe that the problem now may be that a goodly fraction of those educated women have internalized certain uber-feminist ideals (to quote Gloria Steinem, "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle"), and so jump into their careers without consideration for future permanent partners or children, and by the time they get around to seeing to those things, the pool of educated men has dried up and their biological clocks are ticking down. So even if they do manage to find partners, they won't be able have the children they might have wanted to have.

Of course, in so saying I better watch out because the thought police may be out to get me.

Culture has changed. In the past women often went to college at least partially to meet college educated men to possibly marry.

Many women have a problem marrying a guy who makes less then them. They will admit it does not make sense but there is an ingrained sense that that is how things should be. Probably just leftover culture or even having difficulty admiring a guy who does not. There is a small group of women in my area around my age. All are making six figures and, although they do not say it, I think they expect similar moneymaking ability from anyone they date. The reverse is not as often true (though the sugarmama concept sats sometimes it is).

In LDS culture it can be even more handicapping. I have a friend who married a girl making about twice what he did. When it came time to have kids he had a very hard time supporting the family alone as she wanted at least a few years with the babies. They had to downsize their lifestyle quite a bit.

Uber-feminists, as you call them, are rare and are rarely dateable by anyone but a dedicated masochist. I doubt they are the problem.

[Calm]

Men can also often have a problem with women who are more educated or making more money than they do...this may be one of the reasons women are cautious at marrying someone less educated or lower income.  

I still remember being told to be sure and not expose my level of intelligence and education to guys when I was in high school and college as they would feel awkward and not be interested.  Since education and not playing games was too important to me, I ignored the advice.

This is likely an older cultural attitude that will change overtime as more examples are out there to be seen.

[Calm]

"CHALABI: Well, there's some research. So in 2013, the University of Chicago Booth School of Business published a paper that looked at 4,000 married couples in America. It found that once a woman started to earn more than her husband, divorce rates increased. Surprisingly, though, this data showed that whether the wife earns a little bit more or a lot more doesn't actually make much of a difference. So the researchers concluded from that that what really matters is the mere fact of a woman earning more...

So everyone knows, on average, - or at least I think most people know - that American women spend more time on housework than men, about 44 minutes more every day. But here's the weird thing. The researchers found that the gap in housework got even larger when the woman was the primary earner.

MARTIN: So wait. So if the woman is earning a lot more money, or just more money, she's doing even more housework?...

They think that the explanation for that extra housework is that a high-earning woman is trying to make sure that her husband doesn't feel threatened. The idea is basically that men might feel a bit emasculated by a woman that earns more than them....

So the author found that a man is more likely to cheat on his partner if he is more financially dependent on her. And men who are completely dependent on their girlfriends or wives are five times more likely to cheat than men who earn the same amount as their partners. And the explanation given here was basically the same as the housework thing. So it's basically about kind of men feeling like they need to conform to society's definitions of masculinity."

 

http://www.npr.org/2015/02/08/384695833/what-happens-when-wives-earn-more-than-husbands

Edited August 17, 2017 by Calm

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

"CHALABI: Well, there's some research. So in 2013, the University of Chicago Booth School of Business published a paper that looked at 4,000 married couples in America. It found that once a woman started to earn more than her husband, divorce rates increased. Surprisingly, though, this data showed that whether the wife earns a little bit more or a lot more doesn't actually make much of a difference. So the researchers concluded from that that what really matters is the mere fact of a woman earning more...

So everyone knows, on average, - or at least I think most people know - that American women spend more time on housework than men, about 44 minutes more every day. But here's the weird thing. The researchers found that the gap in housework got even larger when the woman was the primary earner.

MARTIN: So wait. So if the woman is earning a lot more money, or just more money, she's doing even more housework?...

They think that the explanation for that extra housework is that a high-earning woman is trying to make sure that her husband doesn't feel threatened. The idea is basically that men might feel a bit emasculated by a woman that earns more than them....

So the author found that a man is more likely to cheat on his partner if he is more financially dependent on her. And men who are completely dependent on their girlfriends or wives are five times more likely to cheat than men who earn the same amount as their partners. And the explanation given here was basically the same as the housework thing. So it's basically about kind of men feeling like they need to conform to society's definitions of masculinity."

 

http://www.npr.org/2015/02/08/384695833/what-happens-when-wives-earn-more-than-husbands

Yeah, that is an issue too. I would be a little cautious there. When dealing with guys who are financially dependent on someone else they are often (but not always) feckless anyone and are likely to cheat no matter what.

I would add I do not have this problem and I will marry any woman who makes twice or more what I make. I really want to pay off this mortgage.  

[Atheist Mormon]

On 8/15/2017 at 11:03 AM, The Nehor said:

As a single college educated guy in his 30s the disparity is real but the quality of the women in that dating range is, to put it kindly, mediocre. Then again they probably say the same thing about me.

Man.....I'm surprised you are so young but I am not surprised your attitude, give it couple more years...no woman will be above mediocre for you. The sad element is you should know this solid fact (especially among LDS) you have far more eligible ladies to check it out than them.

[gopher]

On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 9:02 PM, The Nehor said:

I'm afraid very intelligent women repulse and frighten me.

Earlier this year there was a rumor going around that one of President Trump's secretaries was attending a single's ward and was planning to get baptized into the church.  If you had a chance to meet her, you could impress her by sharing your great respect and admiration of her boss.

Being single in the church stinks as you get older.  It's the one commandment most actually want to keep.