Will Religion Ever Make a Comeback?

[Rivers]

Is there anything that could possibly bring more people back into religious institutions? Or will religion just keep on declining?

[Honorentheos]

23 minutes ago, Rivers said:

Is there anything that could possibly bring more people back into religious institutions? Or will religion just keep on declining?

IMO, the reporting on the phenomenon of "Nones" overplays the lack of interest in organized religion and underplays the questions regarding spirituality which is not as widely rejected. I think the answer to your question depends on how you define religion.

[ksfisher]

31 minutes ago, Rivers said:

Is there anything that could possibly bring more people back into religious institutions? Or will religion just keep on declining?

Really bad times.

[Rivers]

31 minutes ago, Honorentheos said:

IMO, the reporting on the phenomenon of "Nones" overplays the lack of interest in organized religion and underplays the questions regarding spirituality which is not as widely rejected. I think the answer to your question depends on how you define religion.

I'm defining religion as religious institutions.  The word "religion" comes from a Latin word meaning "to bind."  So I see religion as bodies of people bound together by a shared set of beliefs and values. 

[Storm Rider]

It will be interesting when the 1st world nations really get the blazes kicked out of them in war or whatever what all these wonderful atheistic platitudes about life will serve the people and how quickly they return to God.  I am going to bet on history and say that the pendulum swings and always goes back and forth.  Yes, religion will strengthen again.  

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, Rivers said:

Is there anything that could possibly bring more people back into religious institutions? Or will religion just keep on declining?

If the scriptural pattern remains consistent, when God pours out his judgements upon the nations that are now ripening in iniquity, and the sufferings of those so judged become sore, many will return to God and religion in sackcloth and ashes.

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Rivers said:

Is there anything that could possibly bring more people back into religious institutions? Or will religion just keep on declining?

The worldwide birthrate of religious people is so much higher than the non-religious that those secular people will simply disappear over time.  This is happening in Europe, and also in Israel.  the forces of secularism are very strong, and they have an undoubted effect -- especially against supernaturalism, which is not actually a part of Mormon theology.

Paul Johnson speaks eloquently about secularism in the Epilogue of his History of Christianity, http://cnqzu.com/library/Philosophy/neoreaction/_extra authors/Johnson, Paul/A History Of Christianity.pdf .

Quote

. . . consider the future of Christianity, in the light of its past. During the past half-century there has been a rapid and uninterrupted secularization of the West, which has all but demolished the Augustinian idea of Christianity as a powerful, physical and institutional presence in the world. Of St Augustine's city of God on earth, little now remains, except crumbling walls and fallen towers, effete establishments and patriarchies of antiquarian rather than intrinsic interest. But of course Christianity does not depend on a single matrix: hence its durability. The Augustinian idea of public, all-embracing Christianity, once so compelling, has served its purpose and retreats - perhaps, one day, to re-emerge in different forms. Instead, the temporal focus shifts to the Erasmian concept of the private Christian intelligence, and to the Pelagian stress on the power of the Christian individual to effect virtuous change. 
* * * * *
The record of mankind with Christianity is daunting enough, as we have seen. The dynamism it has unleashed has brought massacre and torture, intolerance and destructive pride on a huge scale, for there is a cruel and pitiless nature in man which is sometimes impervious to Christian restraints and encouragements. But without these restraints, bereft of these encouragements, how much more horrific the history of these last 2,000 years must have been! Christianity has not made man secure or happy or even dignified. But it supplies a hope. It is a civilizing agent. It helps to cage the beast. It offers glimpses of real freedom, intimations of a calm and reasonable existence. Even as we see it, distorted by the ravages of humanity, it is not without beauty. In the last generation, with public Christianity in headlong retreat, we have caught our first, distant view of a de-Christianized world, and it is not encouraging. We know that Christian insistence on man's potentiality for good is often disappointed; but we are also learning that man's capacity for evil is almost limitless - is limited, indeed, only by his own expanding reach.  Man is imperfect with God. Without God, what is he? As Francis Bacon put it: 'They that deny God destroy man's nobility: for certainly man is of kin to the beasts by his body; and, if he be not kin to God by his spirit, he is a base and ignoble creature.' We are less base and ignoble by virtue of divine example and by the desire for the form of apotheosis which Christianity offers. In the dual personality of Christ we are offered a perfected image of ourselves, an eternal pace-setter for our striving. By such means our history over the last two millennia has reflected the effort to rise above our human frailties.  And to that extent, the chronicle of Christianity is an edifying one.

 

[Honorentheos]

45 minutes ago, Rivers said:

I'm defining religion as religious institutions.  The word "religion" comes from a Latin word meaning "to bind."  So I see religion as bodies of people bound together by a shared set of beliefs and values. 

Do you include it must have some shared identify with the religions of today that claim kinship to the religions of the past (i.e. recognizable as part of the Judeo-Christian tradition)? Or do you mean this in more of a sociological way where religion has been described as the way groups of people answer questions about the meaning of existence, find exemplars who demonstrate the way, and share ritual behaviors of some kind?

[Honorentheos]

23 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The worldwide birthrate of religious people is so much higher than the non-religious that those secular people will simply disappear over time.  This is happening in Europe, and also in Israel.  the forces of secularism are very strong, and they have an undoubted effect -- especially against supernaturalism, which is not actually a part of Mormon theology.

Paul Johnson speaks eloquently about secularism in the Epilogue of his History of Christianity, http://cnqzu.com/library/Philosophy/neoreaction/_extra authors/Johnson, Paul/A History Of Christianity.pdf .

 

If I had to put money on it, I'd put it on a version of Islam being the dominant religion in my grandchildren's generation. Islam is to the west what Christianity was to Rome.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Honorentheos

[Glenn101]

If, by "religion" one means Christianity, I believe that it will decline until the millennium. Then....

 

Glenn

[cinepro]

2 hours ago, Rivers said:

Is there anything that could possibly bring more people back into religious institutions? Or will religion just keep on declining?

If by "religion" you mean organized groups that teach doctrines about deities and scriptures based on supernatural evidences and a reliance on "faith", then I think those groups have an uphill battle. 

If you look at the factors that allowed such groups to grow and thrive in the past, it's obvious that the world is changing very, very quickly, and they are failing to adapt.

I think there's also a problem in that religion is best suited to answer the "big" questions (why am I here?  where am I going after I die?) and I don't know that younger generations are as preoccupied with such questions as they might have been in the past.  

If the continued viability of the LDS Church depends on increased birthrates, increased retention of teenagers and young adults, and increased convert baptisms of high-quality converts, then the leaders really need to come up with a game-changing plan.  Because the current framework doesn't seem to be heading in that direction.

Edited July 19, 2017 by cinepro

[carbon dioxide]

2 hours ago, Rivers said:

Is there anything that could possibly bring more people back into religious institutions? Or will religion just keep on declining?

 Worldwide the number of religious people is still increasing.  Non-religious populations tend to die out over time because they either don't have a high enough birthrate or they are overcome by religious people taking over.  In Europe the weak secular Europeans are going to be replaced by the Muslims.  In America, the weak secular Americans will be taken over by religious immigrants over time. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

9 minutes ago, cinepro said:

... and increased convert baptisms of high-quality converts.

Good thing I'm not prone to taking offence ...

[Five Solas]

Will idols ever make a comeback?!? 

--Erik

PS.  Idolatry, simply put, is the worship of creation instead of the Creator (Romans 1:25).  So fear not.  Religion is alive & well--in our sports stadiums, in our homes with two-car garages, in our retirement accounts, et cetera, etc. ...

[hagoth7]

4 hours ago, Rivers said:

Is there anything that could possibly bring more people back into religious institutions? Or will religion just keep on declining?

I vote upswing.

The wider the gap between the rich and the poor, the more the humble will seek for relief.

[hagoth7]

Just now, hagoth7 said:

I vote upswing.

The wider the gap between the rich and the poor, the more the humble will seek for relief.

Hopefully for the sake of the rich...they opt to change their ways....now

But perhaps I'm a miser in some things that don't involve material wealth.

Was taught love as a kid...and that's supposedly my legacy...but I've been terrible at expressing it in the way key people have needed it. Wading through the 5 Love Languages to try and sort out that blind spot. Any quick primers on that would be *greatly* appreciated.

[hagoth7]

3 hours ago, Rivers said:

I'm defining religion as religious institutions.  The word "religion" comes from a Latin word meaning "to bind."  So I see religion as bodies of people bound together by a shared set of beliefs and values. 

Would a shared belief in kindness be a start?

One of the two central pillars.

Can't we build from there?

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, Honorentheos said:

If I had to put money on it, I'd put it on a version of Islam being the dominant religion in my grandchildren's generation. Islam is to the west what Christianity was to Rome.

That is probably the future of Europe.  Not sure what that means elsewhere.

[Gray]

12 hours ago, Rivers said:

Is there anything that could possibly bring more people back into religious institutions? Or will religion just keep on declining?

Really hard to say. It seems like the general trend is that as nations become more economically developed, they get less religious. But, I don't know that we can really project any eventual outcome with much confidence.

[Hamba Tuhan]

12 minutes ago, Gray said:

It seems like the general trend is that as nations become more economically developed, they get less religious.

It has always been thus: 'Yea, then is the time that they do harden their hearts, and do forget the Lord their God, and do trample under their feet the Holy One—yea, and this because of their ease, and their exceedingly great prosperity'.

[carbon dioxide]

Climate change, war, economic depression, and natural disasters will add to the upside of religion in the future.  It is easy to be nonreligious when things are going well for a person.  When death and disaster are a constant threat, it forces people to think about more serious things.  When the grim reaper is standing before a person, they start really questioning the meaning of life and hoping there is something beyond their death. 

Edited July 19, 2017 by carbon dioxide

[halconero]

Oh, boy. This gets into the whole question of what "religion" is. Substantive religion, the theory that religion is defined as the belief in the existence supernatural elements (God, spirits, etc) is not really all that useful, but if you're going by that metric, it's in decline. Obviously our doctrine outlines this period of disbelief, and the ultimate triumph of the Gospel though.

If you're going by the theory of functional religion, I think it's doing fine. Civic religion in the United States and Canada seems on the rise, though on different "doctrinal" trajectories. Activist religion seems to be doing well with ritualistic protest acting as a proselytizing agent for specific worldviews. Personally, I like a synthesis of the two concepts, that my religion is both a belief in Deity as well as a function of my life and role in the various communities and identities win which I participate.

[Tacenda]

I think people are afraid of some religions. When we see the abuse in religions especially, and the church covers it up. And use thousands of members' donations to do it. I'm watching a segment on a daily talk show right now of some former Catholic students in a high school that have put out a documentary about abuse by one priest. Around 100 women came forward that he had abused them. These women started to investigate because they had often wondered what happen to a teacher/nun that was murdered mysteriously, and it turns out she was onto this priest. I haven't watched the documentary but will need to. http://www.newsweek.com/inside-netflixs-chilling-new-docuseries-keepers-story-murdered-nun-and-610799

I know there is a lot of abuse in the name of religion, think FLDS, and some sexual abuse by leaders in the LDS church, hard to believe I know, but think things like this keep people away from religion. 

[Jeanne]

I have never even searched for another religion..if there is a chapel for me..it is in the mountains or a lake..mingled with conscience and an individual moral code. 

[clarkgoble]

On 7/18/2017 at 7:44 PM, Rivers said:

Is there anything that could possibly bring more people back into religious institutions? Or will religion just keep on declining?

I suspect it'll keep declining. There's a strong argument to make that as rule of law and formal government become more trustworthy, they come to take the place of religion more and more. The argument goes that's why Europe became so secular with most of religion coming from either immigrants or more cultural trappings that lack the belief. It was an open question whether that would happen in the United States or not but I think the last 15 years suggest that we're at least following Canada even if we don't go quite as far as Europe. Whether we reach a steady state or not remains an open question. My guess is that we will. The drop in religiosity in Canada has slowed a fair bit the past years even though Canada started down the move to the Nones about ten years ahead of the United States.

All this assumes no major turmoils though. We are at an inflection point somewhat akin to the late 60's. So I wouldn't assume there will be no more major changes. I've often made reference to cliodynamics predicting this inflection point. But it can't really predict what the outcome will be. Will it be like 67-70 uin the US with major change and then a backlash until we get an equilibrium? Or will it be more akin to the Civil War? It's pretty hard to see. I'd be pretty leery of predictions until this current cultural conflict becomes resolved. My guess is that it'll resolve in a fashion more akin to European secularism but it could easily go the other direction.