Anakin7 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) Recently an LDS critic shared Isaiah 42:8 with me to show that the LDS Doctrine of Godhood cannot come to pass in the afterlife. He shared that he has read the literature both Pro and Con including the Church Fathers use of scriptures and there writings and has concluded that God/Jesus/Holy Ghost as a Trinity do not give there glory to anyone in the afterlife. I have my thoughts on this but I wanted to put this out for your thoughts. Note to critics - please be Christlike/Charitable in your posts, thank you. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited July 18, 2017 by Anakin7 Link to comment
Jane_Doe Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) ((( Ok, this post is admittedly not charitable))) Oh this old tired argument. *Rolls eyes* Addressing this from the LDS perspective (free of Trinitarian baggage): the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost three person who are ONE through unity. Our goal is not to replace them, but to likewise become ONE with them-- 100% unified in Goodness and Glory. This Goodness and Glory is without beginning or end, and is not dependent/threatened by whatever we are or may become. No "other" competing force takes God's glory, rather God shares with those that are united with Him. Now from the Trinitarian perspective: the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost three person who are ONE through a shared ousia (aka substance). God is God because He's made of this ousia. You are not. So no matter how Christ-like you become, you'll never be made of this ousia and hence never be God. God is incapable of sharing His ousia. Edited July 17, 2017 by Jane_Doe Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Just another issue of interpretation. Isaiah 42:8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. vs. Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me on my throne. Galatians 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 2 Link to comment
ksfisher Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Anakin7 said: Recently an LDS critic shared Isaiah 42:8 with me to show that the LDS Doctrine of Godhood cannot come to pass in the afterlife. He shared that he has read the literature both Pro and Con including the Church Fathers use of scriptures and there writings and has concluded that God/Jesus/Holy Ghost as a Trinity do not give there glory to anyone in the afterlife. I have my thoughts on this but I wanted to put this out for your thoughts. Note to critics - please be Christlike/Charitable in your posts, thank you. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Never mind. I see the typo in the title now. Edited July 17, 2017 by ksfisher Link to comment
Anakin7 Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) I corrected scripture reference title of this thread. Any historical history in this scripture time frame as to why The Lord said what he did in Isaiah 42:8 ?. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited July 18, 2017 by Anakin7 Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 I think we need to read the verse in context. He is clearly speaking of false gods/idols etc. Much as the 10 commandments do. I don't see that this has anything to do with the idea of man becoming as God. 1 Link to comment
RevTestament Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 9 hours ago, Anakin7 said: Recently an LDS critic shared Isaiah 42:8 with me to show that the LDS Doctrine of Godhood cannot come to pass in the afterlife. He shared that he has read the literature both Pro and Con including the Church Fathers use of scriptures and there writings and has concluded that God/Jesus/Holy Ghost as a Trinity do not give there glory to anyone in the afterlife. I have my thoughts on this but I wanted to put this out for your thoughts. Note to critics - please be Christlike/Charitable in your posts, thank you. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 This is not an isolated statement. He is speaking to His servant of the prior verses who is to be His inheritor per Isa 65, and is to receive His title of Everlasting Father per Isa 9:6. So the verses do not support the idea that Jesus is going to make us God's of our own worlds. We are following Him - not replacing Him. Nor do they support the idea of an immutable trinity at all since that teaches that the Son will always be the Son. He will not. Nor was He always the Son before this world - as much as that seems to bother my LDS brothers and sisters. The other thing that may trouble orthodoxy is that this chapter indicates the Father has a soul...yet they believe He is only spirit. Link to comment
hagoth7 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 23 hours ago, Anakin7 said: Recently an LDS critic shared Isaiah 42:8 with me to show that the LDS Doctrine of Godhood cannot come to pass... What's their take on verse 1? Link to comment
Damien the Leper Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 The audiences of Isaiah and Romans are not the same. To understand Isaiah, we must set aside christology and examine the text from a Jewish perspective. I hate trying to read the Hebrew Bible through a lense that is not Jewish. It makes little to no sense to me. 2 Link to comment
hagoth7 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Valentinus said: The audiences of Isaiah and Romans are not the same. To understand Isaiah, we must set aside christology and examine the text from a Jewish perspective. I hate trying to read the Hebrew Bible through a lense that is not Jewish. It makes little to no sense to me. You're of the opinion that Isaiah wasn't Christian? Link to comment
Damien the Leper Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 11 hours ago, hagoth7 said: You're of the opinion that Isaiah wasn't Christian? Yes. Given the texts we have from 3 different authors, there is nothing that leads me to believe he was a Christian and never would be. 1 Link to comment
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