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hagoth7

Reality...and Perception

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What is reality, really? How does that relate to the present, to the past, and to the eternities?

Gonna riff on a few things in rapid succession...  Be kind/gentle. An early draft.

  1. Tacenda's comment last week about remembring/regretting something supposedly left undone as a teenager. To be told in the here and now that such a memory didn't match this reality. And something she had been kicking herself for...for years...either didn't happen...*or was erased* as if it hadn't.
  2. Something otherwise benign that I had done last week, but deeply regretted, because in hindsight I realized that I had done so a few weeks prematurely, and needed the objectd handed off for something else first. That object was somehow restored back to me as if i had never handed it over, and the person to whom I had handed it to insisted I had never done so. So when I looked to see where I had taken it from to hand it to him, the thing I had given away, was returned to me, like bread cast upon the water. Such an event is not a one-off. But has unfoled several times over the  last several years.
  3. Mandela Effect. A glimpse of the scope of atonement/restoration? An entire nation moved (New Zealand) from where I disstinctly remember it being when I visited years ago. Can the present be rewritten, either iwthin this reality, or having it plastered over with a better reality of choices we wish a better version of us had made? With a better reality? Every wrong made right? Tears wiped away. The things we regretted doing erased? Yet retaining a memory of what our past *had* been, to keep us grateful/mindful of the slate wiped clean.  
  4. Shortly after the Tacenda's comments, and my experience with the thing restored back to me, I watched a brief mindbending thing this week about the nature of reality, in line with other things related to Quantum phiysics/mechanics that I've been following over the years.
  5. There are those who say, in less detail than the thing I watched last week, that this reality is literally a simlulation created by advanced intelligences. Akin to the Matrix, but more benevolent. Part of my role in training organization was designing and developing interactive learning, including developing computer simulations.
  6. Map that with what we are taught of the core purpose of this life...to come here and learn and grow.
  7. The very concept of Valhalla, one of the nine Norse realms (we are taught the celestial contains 3, and others have asked about subdivision of the terrestial and telestial). If the lower kindgoms are fratals of the higher, a 9-fold division would ripple through as the result. Valhalla,  a heaven where the valiant have the ability to get back up, refresh ourselves, and fight on (improving through additional challenges). Square that with the somewhat-common LDS belief that we won't be sitting around playing harps, but will have engaging thngs to do in the eternities.
  8. So if realities can be overmapped, what would happen if a critical mass of the righteous withdrew from a a society/reality? We are told woe unto a city when the righteous are driven out. Civilizations left behind sometimes implode, or collapse under their own weight. Sodom. Ancient Jerusalem. And Jerusalem again in 70 AD. 
  9. What did Brigham mean when he said this earth/reality was created with chunks of such taken from other worlds?
  10. Is reality, including the past, present, and future, more elastic than we might have otherwise thought? What of what is promised, the ability to see lower realms. What is the practical purpose/function of having access to seeing such?
  11. Our elven ancestors were said, at least in Celtic lands, to have the means, at least at certain junctdures, to open and close doors to other realities.
  12. Brigadoon style. What do the transparent walls of the New Jerusalem really represent/consist of?
Edited by hagoth7

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I've thought about some of what you've written here.  I am attracted to the Matrix idea, just because.  

But things are weirder than you might think.

The Double-Slit Experiment:

 

Edited by Stargazer

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8 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

 ...But things are weirder than you might think.

The Double-Slit Experiment:

They discussed that experiment further in the thing I alluded to earlier.

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1 minute ago, hagoth7 said:

They discussed that experiment further in the thing I alluded to earlier.

By the way, I changed the video from the Dr. Quantum version I originally posted.

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If you are about to have a psychotic break then get help. Not saying for sure you are but this similar to the kinds of things people who have psychotic breaks have just before said break.

If not, ignore this post.

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7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

If you are about to have a psychotic break then get help. Not saying for sure you are but this similar to the kinds of things people who have psychotic breaks have just before said break.

If not, ignore this post.

How does one on the verge of a psychotic breakdown know that they are on the edge? 

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3 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

How does one on the verge of a psychotic breakdown know that they are on the edge? 

My ex-fiancee knew it. Didn't help. :( 

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3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

We have no objective access to reality in this life.  Perception is everything.

Agree but I am going to sit this one out.

Everyone read the Rorty quote below- it says it all anyway. :)

 

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3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

We have no objective access to reality in this life.  Perception is everything.

Don't believe it. I think back to that time in college when I had been up for two days and had to stay up for another 12 hours. My sketchy roommate from El Paso offered me a caffeine pill to help me stay awake. It worked but about 6 hours later I was sitting in a lecture hall and looked across to see a green goblin taking notes. 12 hours later I had achieved oneness with the Universe itself and understood everything objectively. Then it wore off and I slept for 14 hours.

Point is the path to objective reality and ultimate knowledge is paved with questionable medication and hallucinatory green goblins.

Story is mostly true.

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Don't believe it. I think back to that time in college when I had been up for two days and had to stay up for another 12 hours. My sketchy roommate from El Paso offered me a caffeine pill to help me stay awake. It worked but about 6 hours later I was sitting in a lecture hall and looked across to see a green goblin taking notes. 12 hours later I had achieved oneness with the Universe itself and understood everything objectively. Then it wore off and I slept for 14 hours.

Point is the path to objective reality and ultimate knowledge is paved with questionable medication and hallucinatory green goblins.

Story is mostly true.

Haha!! Reminds me of this episode! But no green goblins!!

 

Edited by Tacenda

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22 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I've thought about some of what you've written here.  I am attracted to the Matrix idea, just because.  

But things are weirder than you might think.

The Double-Slit Experiment:

And what does double-slit mean to you?

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15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

If you are about to have a psychotic break...

I usually reserve extended breaks for Sundays. (But willing to make an exception.)

To help schedule this, do I need to take the break poolside? Or would any location or body of water do? 

...then get help.

K. For which facet of life?

...similar to the kinds of things people who have psychotic breaks have just before said break.

I also just had a glass of milk. Is that also part of the pattern?

If not, care to comment on what I actually posted? 

If not, ignore this post.

I did.  And later didn't.  Perhaps a quantum thing. Or simply prioritization. You choose.

Thank you for the concern. I actually mean it. :0)

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I think the examples in the OP (1-4) speak more to the fallibility of memory than any inconsistency in reality. Multiple studies have confirmed how easily memories can be manipulated and even false memories created. Of course, since for each of us our memories are our reality, then I guess you could say reality is pliable.

Information on false memories:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3143501/

https://www.radcliffe.harvard.edu/news/radcliffe-magazine/investigating-false-memories

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0081246313484236

 

Edited by rchorse

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2 hours ago, hagoth7 said:

And what does double-slit mean to you?

It means that we don't understand how the Universe works.  Or why it works the way it does.

What is the story behind protons being composed of 1 down quark and 2 ups?  Why are neutrons 1 up and 2 down?

I hope to know all about this eventually, but right now it is just too weird for words.

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On 7/11/2017 at 9:50 PM, hagoth7 said:

An entire nation moved (New Zealand) from where I disstinctly remember it being when I visited years ago.

I am curious about this.  Are you willing to elaborate?  I have heard about New Zealand moving, but no first hand accounts.

I do consider our participation in this world to be a MEDIA, to say also a MEDIA PRESENTATION.  Also to say that our participation in this world IS the 'temple film' (only more advanced media than film) to ourselves from the position of the world we call 'pre-existence'; except as far as I'm concerned we never left.  We are still there, and this is simply a MEDIA PRESENTATION.

Not that it doesn't have real consequences, it does; one way to say it is that we are having our eyes opened.  It being a program is one thing; it is the PURPOSE of the program that is of importance.  Like saying the temple is a building, yes, it is; and there are all kinds of buildings for all kinds of reasons; but what is IN that (temple) building and what is it's purpose?

The reason that I think this is a media, or a program (your body is your dashboard), is that it is exactly the kind of media we are already trying to create within this world.  Virtual Reality is getting better and better and we take great delight in making it as 'real' as possible.  So I ask myself--really? well, is this the first time?  or has it all been done before, and here we are in the middle of it?

Anyway.  That doesn't answer all your questions, but big yes to #5.

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1 hour ago, Maidservant said:

I am curious about this.  Are you willing to elaborate?  I have heard about New Zealand moving, but no first hand accounts.

Very fun post Maidservant. It's been too long since we've crossed paths.:0)

I would comment on your other statments in that post,  but that stand for themselves.

As to New Zealand, it's not a short story. 

Back when my father-in-law was alive, and was working in eastern Australia, he had mentioned to my wife several times that he would provide lodging for us if we drummed up the airfare. We decided to find a way to go, nad that since we were going to fly *that* far, we weren't gonna fly over New Zealand without stopping and visiting what was obviously an amazingly beautiful and culturally-rich orner of the world. 

I distinctly remember New Zealand being NEof Australia, almost directly under the flight path from the Western U.S to Australia. And I recall watching the in-flight monitor on the plane on the way to NZ, and it showing our little plane graphic getting closer to NZ. 

It was only after hearing of the Mandela Effect, and iits supposed connecdtion to NZ being remembered to exist in different places, that I first shrugged, but then sat up straight and took notice when I realized that where was now on the map wasn't anywhere remotely close to where I remember visiting, or near any flight path from the Western States to Australia. Instead, it was down in the far SE corner. At that pount,  I roundfiled (discarded) my skepticism on that otherwise bizarrro matter, and deemed the so-called Mandela Effect to be of something more significant than mere memory failings.

Might fear-based Christians be correct that it represents a cosmic battle playing out in a shifting reality. Yep. But I think we'd be best to discard fear, and wade in with faith and hope. Makes me think of Daniel and angels Michael standing by him in their apparent epic struggle to alter (or stay) human events. 

My wife had been a Geography/Travel & Tourism major,  and a subsequent travel agent, and I was a history geek, so we had a globe and maps all over the place, we even had some to this day that are placemats. And New Zealand has intrigued me for years. So georgraphy wasn't some afterthought  under such a roof.

And planning the rare trip for us wasn't a matter of simply hopping a plane and figuring out what to do when we got there. It represented such a large investment for us, that we spent months planning it, pouring through maps and rousces to carefully map out and schedule a fair balance of relaxation, new experiences, and research.

So for someonte to say that I just remembered incorrectly, I rrespectfully diagree. Historians pay close attention to maps, and my memory of detail is pretty effective, going years back.

I've even studied currents and winds in my research, so a nation that close to Antarctica as it is today, would have left some emotional/cognitive imprint at least wondering how it remained sufficiently warm. 

I even recall after making the hop from tNZ to Canberra, Australia,  deliberating with my father-in-law over a possible jaunt south to Tasmania, and distinctly recall in my mindmap at the time Tasmania being to the south, and NZ to my upper right.(NE).

So I  rapidly considered and weighed such a bizarre rapid shift with an entire nation, and its connecdtions with Pangea, contrasted with supposedly slow continential drift, and promises of landmasses shifintg in short order during the last days.

Everyone gets to determine what hheir own tipping point is when it comes to fantabulous claims. For me, ithe NZ issue,  having prevoiusly travelled and stood there, not only helped me give an otherwise snicker-meriting claim due consideration, but quickly saw how such an elastic reality aligns with latter-day continental promises - if we choose to interpret the lands uniting as a geographic union, rather than the more important union that brings peace.

So many of you are  free to say I'm all up in the night. But I've stood on both NZ islands. And on Australia.  And what I've shared addresses (for me) Pangea-like expectations, and Daniel/Michael struggles, and a number of other matters about pre-existence, creation, and existence..

in NZ, my wife and Iwere both surprised at how locals said that we were a curiosity, because they never left their small portion of NZ, or NZ proper.  (Someone travelling that far to rent a bed and breakfast with them was deemed by them an oddity. Why travel to a foreign land when one can be happy at home?) For us, the answer was to learn and grow, and to even build wee bridges/friendship between cultures. Tiny ripples of completely-non-official ambassador visits from the north to the South Pacific (visit her father), Asia (overseas adoption), Mexico (a near-free travel agency trip), and Europe (for her to see the land of her ancestors, and for me to revisit the place I had served and to scoop up a wee bit of research)..

After a response that lengthy, are you sorry you asked? ^_^

Edited by hagoth7

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6 hours ago, Calm said:

 

6 hours ago, hagoth7 said:

Very fun post Maidservant. It's been too long since we've crossed paths.:0)

I would comment on your other statments in that post,  but that stand for themselves.

As to New Zealand, it's not a short story. 

Back when my father-in-law was alive, and was working in eastern Australia, he had mentioned to my wife several times that he would provide lodging for us if we drummed up the airfare. We decided to find a way to go, nad that since we were going to fly *that* far, we weren't gonna fly over New Zealand without stopping and visiting what was obviously an amazingly beautiful and culturally-rich orner of the world. 

I distinctly remember New Zealand being NEof Australia, almost directly under the flight path from the Western U.S to Australia. And I recall watching the in-flight monitor on the plane on the way to NZ, and it showing our little plane graphic getting closer to NZ. 

It was only after hearing of the Mandela Effect, and iits supposed connecdtion to NZ being remembered to exist in different places, that I first shrugged, but then sat up straight and took notice when I realized that where was now on the map wasn't anywhere remotely close to where I remember visiting, or near any flight path from the Western States to Australia. Instead, it was down in the far SE corner. At that pount,  I roundfiled (discarded) my skepticism on that otherwise bizarrro matter, and deemed the so-called Mandela Effect to be of something more significant than mere memory failings.

Might fear-based Christians be correct that it represents a cosmic battle playing out in a shifting reality. Yep. But I think we'd be best to discard fear, and wade in with faith and hope. Makes me think of Daniel and angels Michael standing by him in their apparent epic struggle to alter (or stay) human events. 

My wife had been a Geography/Travel & Tourism major,  and a subsequent travel agent, and I was a history geek, so we had a globe and maps all over the place, we even had some to this day that are placemats. And New Zealand has intrigued me for years. So georgraphy wasn't some afterthought  under such a roof.

And planning the rare trip for us wasn't a matter of simply hopping a plane and figuring out what to do when we got there. It represented such a large investment for us, that we spent months planning it, pouring through maps and rousces to carefully map out and schedule a fair balance of relaxation, new experiences, and research.

So for someonte to say that I just remembered incorrectly, I rrespectfully diagree. Historians pay close attention to maps, and my memory of detail is pretty effective, going years back.

I've even studied currents and winds in my research, so a nation that close to Antarctica as it is today, would have left some emotional/cognitive imprint at least wondering how it remained sufficiently warm. 

I even recall after making the hop from tNZ to Canberra, Australia,  deliberating with my father-in-law over a possible jaunt south to Tasmania, and distinctly recall in my mindmap at the time Tasmania being to the south, and NZ to my upper right.(NE).

So I  rapidly considered and weighed such a bizarre rapid shift with an entire nation, and its connecdtions with Pangea, contrasted with supposedly slow continential drift, and promises of landmasses shifintg in short order during the last days.

Everyone gets to determine what hheir own tipping point is when it comes to fantabulous claims. For me, ithe NZ issue,  having prevoiusly travelled and stood there, not only helped me give an otherwise snicker-meriting claim due consideration, but quickly saw how such an elastic reality aligns with latter-day continental promises - if we choose to interpret the lands uniting as a geographic union, rather than the more important union that brings peace.

So many of you are  free to say I'm all up in the night. But I've stood on both NZ islands. And on Australia.  And what I've shared addresses (for me) Pangea-like expectations, and Daniel/Michael struggles, and a number of other matters about pre-existence, creation, and existence..

in NZ, my wife and Iwere both surprised at how locals said that we were a curiosity, because they never left their small portion of NZ, or NZ proper.  (Someone travelling that far to rent a bed and breakfast with them was deemed by them an oddity. Why travel to a foreign land when one can be happy at home?) For us, the answer was to learn and grow, and to even build wee bridges/friendship between cultures. Tiny ripples of completely-non-official ambassador visits from the north to the South Pacific (visit her father), Asia (overseas adoption), Mexico (a near-free travel agency trip), and Europe (for her to see the land of her ancestors, and for me to revisit the place I had served and to scoop up a wee bit of research)..

After a response that lengthy, are you sorry you asked? ^_^

Well, thank you for taking the time!!

And, thanks, Calm!

No, no, I tend to be very open to alternative worlds--some might even call me gullible.  And I've read a lot about the Mandela effect, and honestly, the Berenstein/Berenstain Bears one is very strong for me.  I also, of course, hold these ideas in some suspension because nothing is strong enough for me to make a conclusion, so I am always on the lookout for and grateful for first hand accounts.  Of course, other explanations may be possible as to why this phenomena arises, but it remains that it is wonky enough to require SOME kind of explanation effort.

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Hmm.   A shift in reality.

Kinda like NZ, but hits closer, much closer, to home.

A passage reads differently now, a tectonic shift, in a very unusual/benevolent way.  had previously reflected on it often, and had cited a few times in writing, and was thinking about it tonight on the way back. Used to point to only one outcome. So be it.

It now reads a noticeably different way, illuminating a branching outcome, where there are now two possibie outcomes. Branching, or double slit. Either way, beyond kewl. Come what may. 

Edited by hagoth7

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15 hours ago, Maidservant said:

...because nothing is strong enough for me to make a conclusion, so I am always on the lookout for and grateful for first hand accounts....

There may be no need for you to draw a conclusion anytime soon.

For me, the thread is already serving its purpose and  making a few cool things stir, for what I happen to need to see for a next step. And the thread serves as a nice placeholder to document a bit of that. 

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God is omnipotent, omniscient, everlasting, omnipresent, and all loving, and extremely precise -- Hebrews 4:12. And also God is the absolute servant of his beings created in his likeness. God creates reality according to our faith -- our faith in power or our faith in the precision of God.

This current reality is fallen because we humans are fallen. There will be created a new heavens and a new earth for the righteous.

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15 minutes ago, Raymond Ellis said:

God is omnipotent, omniscient, everlasting, omnipresent, and all loving, and extremely precise -- Hebrews 4:12. And also God is the absolute servant of his beings created in his likeness. God creates reality according to our faith -- our faith in power or our faith in the precision of God.

This current reality is fallen because we humans are fallen. There will be created a new heavens and a new earth for the righteous.

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

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      Remember again we are talking only about our theology of forgiveness here, not exaltation, not even being "saved" technically- JUST the idea of what it takes for God to forgive us of our sins.
      How does "saved by grace after all that we can do" differ from "freed by the law after all our penalties (prison sentences etc) are done"?
      Could this analogy be used to explain our doctrine of the atonement to secular people who already of course understand the idea that once one has "done the crime AND served the time" he should be forgiven?
      We have the ransom analogy and other analogies of the atonement- how does this view differ in a PRACTICAL sense, and could it also serve as a useful analogy?
    • By Kenngo1969
      I hesitate, somewhat (though probably not enough), to do this.  (Fools rush in ... )  Though names, locales, other identifying details, and surrounding circumstances have been changed for dramatic purposes, real-life, flesh-and-blood people are involved, and perhaps this cuts through the flesh to the muscle, and through the muscle to the bone. Some time ago, I wrote a piece of "faction" ... factual fiction ... about a relationship in which I was involved once, and about the metamorphosis of a young lady for whom I once cared a great deal.  Though we're no longer as young as we once were, and though she long since has moved on, on some level, I care for her still.  I've tried hard to move on, too, and I'm not really very big on "pining" for anyone.  Hopefully no one gets the idea that that's what this is about.  I'm posting this in General Discussions in hopes that it attracts broader attention and wider traffic before the Mods decide to move it to Social Hall.  
      Love and marriage figure somewhere in here, of course.  It is a romance, after all.  I'm not necessarily interested in focusing more than in passing on those topics.  Hopefully, we can also avoid turning this into yet another thread about gay marriage.   I'm more interested in exploring broader themes of repentance, of forgiveness, of change, of metamorphosis, of what it means to recognize our identity as Children of God with a divine heritage and potential, and so on.  Anyway, without further ado, I give you the first chapter/installment of Deanna: A Story of Love and Change.
      https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2017/08/21/fiction-deanna-chapter-1/
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