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The Imposition of Belief and Doctrine; when is it a bridge too far?


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Being the only member of the Church in my family (38 plus years now) I have had my share of both loving and harsh reactions to my beliefs. My parents never doubted my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but in the beginning had concerns about doctrine. But for most of my extended family, time and constancy have at long last brought peace of mind as to my Faith. 

But in that time, (or) during that time, when I would visit family in Church, my childhood ministers would openly attack my beliefs. Even at my Father's funeral this occurred. In so doing it caused my parents pain at the time, causing them (as parents do) in my behalf to be angry. I was not and asked that they forgive what happened. In the last couple of years of my Mother's life she would often speak of seeing my Father, and how she looked forward to the day when he would come for her, or see him again. For the record, my parents both believed that relationships last beyond the grave, but others in their family and Church did not believe as they (and I) did.

About six months before my Mother passed away, my Aunt next door (we were living my Mother caring for her) called and told me that I need to stop telling her that she will know my Father when she dies. In the Church that I was raised, we were taught that if saved we will be in heaven together, but we will not know what relationship that we had with our loved ones. When I explained to my Aunt that she had Alhiemers, and would not remember anything I told her; she (my Aunt) wanted to know where she got such notions, and that I need to set her straight. On that day, I had just had enough, and warned her not to attempt in any way to add to my Mother's pain by "imposing" her beliefs upon her. I am sad to say that I was not kind, but later apologized. 

I know most here live in areas where Mormonism is the dominant Faith, in numbers anyway. I was recently reading in LDS Scripture where it states that, (too paraphrase) "we are free to act, rather than to be acted upon". Living in Georgia, where there is a small number of Latter-day Saints, it is easy to feel outnumber and imposed upon by other Faiths. As I would suppose others may feel the same being non-Mormon, living out West. 

So, as to the long way around question...when do we know when to remain silent about our beliefs as to not seem to aggressive? Also when should we be more aggressive when false and damaging doctrines are being preached? I recently had a serious falling out over the doctrine of "Calvinism", and the doctrine that Jesus only atoned for the sins of those whom God had already chosen for salvation. This doctrine is called "limited atonement". In my zeal to explain that Jesus Christ atoned for all sins, and that all who choose, my choose salvation, I called "Limited Atonement" the doctrine of demons. 

So...

When do any of you feel imposed upon?

When MUST we make a stand?

How do we find balance between "Preaching and Teaching"? Ye Southerners will understand the difference in the two. 

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Just now, Tacenda said:

Being told that Satan is working on me by my own TBM sister, and our relationship almost being nonexistant now. 

 

Quote

:( So sorry about this Tacenda. 

 

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25 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

So...

When do any of you feel imposed upon?

When MUST we make a stand?

How do we find balance between "Preaching and Teaching"? Ye Southerners will understand the difference in the two. 

I think this is a great part of what makes the lived gospel message a real an important challenge/struggle for us on a daily basis.  This is also a challenge with respect to other controversial topics like politics especially in our current public discourse.  How do we express our beliefs, when should we "make a stand", and how do we do that.  These are important tensions of the experiences of life as we interact with others who have vastly different perspectives.  

I don't have any good answers.  I will tell you that with my personality, I tend to listen a lot and typically assert my opinions in softer tones and as opinion, but I question whether this is the best tactic at times, because I see how sometimes a more bold approach is necessary to move the needle on important issues.  

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17 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Being told that Satan is working on me by my own TBM sister, and our relationship almost being nonexistant now. 

 

That is unfortunate and certainly difficult, and sounds more like opinion than any doctrinal argument. I know that those we love can hurt us more than any stranger could. I often wonder if anyone thinks comments like that could ever be the foundation for a constructive outcome. So sorry that such has happened, been there and hurt their far too often. 

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3 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I think this is a great part of what makes the lived gospel message a real an important challenge/struggle for us on a daily basis.  This is also a challenge with respect to other controversial topics like politics especially in our current public discourse.  How do we express our beliefs, when should we "make a stand", and how do we do that.  These are important tensions of the experiences of life as we interact with others who have vastly different perspectives.  

I don't have any good answers.  I will tell you that with my personality, I tend to listen a lot and typically assert my opinions in softer tones and as opinion, but I question whether this is the best tactic at times, because I see how sometimes a more bold approach is necessary to move the needle on important issues.  

As I have grown older, I have found their is much more wisdom in listening than speaking. 

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8 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

As I have grown older, I have found their is much more wisdom in listening than speaking. 

Agreed, we can learn a lot from listening.  Speaking of that, I listened to a podcast about how we can get others to understand each other better is by first trying to understand the perspective of the other person and demonstrate this understanding by reflecting back to them what we think they are trying to say.  This is step one to getting lowering the barriers towards an mutually beneficial dialogue.  

I believe it was this episode, but I can't remember for sure.  This whole podcast is a gem though and I highly recommend it. 

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2013/09/30/yanss-podcast-episode-nine/

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1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

So, as to the long way around question...when do we know when to remain silent about our beliefs as to not seem to aggressive? Also when should we be more aggressive when false and damaging doctrines are being preached? I recently had a serious falling out over the doctrine of "Calvinism", and the doctrine that Jesus only atoned for the sins of those whom God had already chosen for salvation. This doctrine is called "limited atonement". In my zeal to explain that Jesus Christ atoned for all sins, and that all who choose, my choose salvation, I called "Limited Atonement" the doctrine of demons. 

The LDS teachings that Jesus was the first spirit child of heavenly parents who progressed into becoming a god when
he reaching a pinnacle of intelligence in the pre-mortal existence or that Heavenly Father was once a man who became
a god causes much more of a falling out than anything Calvin ever taught (imo).

Jim

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7 minutes ago, theplains said:

The LDS teachings that Jesus was the first spirit child of heavenly parents who progressed into becoming a god when
he reaching a pinnacle of intelligence in the pre-mortal existence or that Heavenly Father was once a man who became
a god causes much more of a falling out than anything Calvin ever taught (imo).

Jim

the question and hand is how to proceed, or govern ourselves in theological debate. But, as far as Calvin, he ordered the drowning of anabaptists in the sea, and it was done. Martin Luther, called for the murder of Jews for rejected his teachings. What you claim to be Mormon teaching concerning Jesus Christ, are Biblical teachings. It is the Bible that says that, Jesus "learned obiedence through the things which he suffered", that Jesus "thought it not robbery to be equal to God", that through Jesus, as he became "we become joint heirs with Christ", that Jesus "became the author of eternal salvation". These are not Mormon claims, not Book of Mormon teachings, these are Biblical teachings. I used one example of Mormon teaching, "eternal families" and one teaching that is purely "Christian teaching" (for some) to address the larger issue, of when such teachings "collide", now let's get back to it. This was not meant to be an opportunity for anti-Mormon discussion, there are copious sites for that topic. 

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Best response to that: "I know, I am so amazing he has to spend a lot of time working on me. Why did he stop working on you again?"

Will you let me use this please?  :P

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1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

Will you let me use this please?  :P

Definitely.

I get snarky when people pretend to spiritual discernment.

It presumes sin. It assumes all sin comes from Satanic temptation. Not all sin is demonically inspired or, as my Mission President once said after we had a rash of unclean spirit encounters in the Mission: "Be careful about exorcisms. Sometimes the evil spirit is the only one in the body." Whether right or not telling someone the devil is messing with them is not usually helpful. More often it comes from the pleasure of judging another and the pretense of helping just lets you do it while pretending you are helping.

Sometimes you have to reprove someone else but D&C 121 includes things that must be present for a reproof to be righteous and helpful. Even then it still sometimes makes the listener angry but such is life.

P.S. My comments should not be taken to mean I think you have an evil spirit or that you deserve reproof. I obviously know nothing of the situation. I am just rambling. I do think anyone can take divine and satanic interest in your life as a compliment generally. It is when both sides have given up on you that you should start to worry. ;) 

Edited by The Nehor
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7 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Being the only member of the Church in my family (38 plus years now) I have had my share of both loving and harsh reactions to my beliefs. My parents never doubted my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but in the beginning had concerns about doctrine. But for most of my extended family, time and constancy have at long last brought peace of mind as to my Faith. 

But in that time, (or) during that time, when I would visit family in Church, my childhood ministers would openly attack my beliefs. Even at my Father's funeral this occurred. In so doing it caused my parents pain at the time, causing them (as parents do) in my behalf to be angry. I was not and asked that they forgive what happened. In the last couple of years of my Mother's life she would often speak of seeing my Father, and how she looked forward to the day when he would come for her, or see him again. For the record, my parents both believed that relationships last beyond the grave, but others in their family and Church did not believe as they (and I) did.

About six months before my Mother passed away, my Aunt next door (we were living my Mother caring for her) called and told me that I need to stop telling her that she will know my Father when she dies. In the Church that I was raised, we were taught that if saved we will be in heaven together, but we will not know what relationship that we had with our loved ones. When I explained to my Aunt that she had Alhiemers, and would not remember anything I told her; she (my Aunt) wanted to know where she got such notions, and that I need to set her straight. On that day, I had just had enough, and warned her not to attempt in any way to add to my Mother's pain by "imposing" her beliefs upon her. I am sad to say that I was not kind, but later apologized. 

I know most here live in areas where Mormonism is the dominant Faith, in numbers anyway. I was recently reading in LDS Scripture where it states that, (too paraphrase) "we are free to act, rather than to be acted upon". Living in Georgia, where there is a small number of Latter-day Saints, it is easy to feel outnumber and imposed upon by other Faiths. As I would suppose others may feel the same being non-Mormon, living out West. 

So, as to the long way around question...when do we know when to remain silent about our beliefs as to not seem to aggressive? Also when should we be more aggressive when false and damaging doctrines are being preached? I recently had a serious falling out over the doctrine of "Calvinism", and the doctrine that Jesus only atoned for the sins of those whom God had already chosen for salvation. This doctrine is called "limited atonement". In my zeal to explain that Jesus Christ atoned for all sins, and that all who choose, my choose salvation, I called "Limited Atonement" the doctrine of demons. 

So...

When do any of you feel imposed upon?

When MUST we make a stand?

How do we find balance between "Preaching and Teaching"? Ye Southerners will understand the difference in the two. 

Hi Papa.

I would suggest it gets worse than Georgia.

"...it is easy to feel outnumber and imposed upon by other Faiths..."

It seems like compared to where I live, I might like Georgia a little...where I would only be outnumbered and imposed upon by "other Faiths..." Maybe I should consider that Midnight Train?

3DOP

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15 hours ago, theplains said:

The LDS teachings that Jesus was the first spirit child of heavenly parents who progressed into becoming a god when
he reaching a pinnacle of intelligence in the pre-mortal existence or that Heavenly Father was once a man who became
a god causes much more of a falling out than anything Calvin ever taught (imo).

Jim

Christ was divine before he became a spirit child of God, in much the same way he was divine before he emptied himself and became a helpless baby on earth who didn't know how to crawl, walk, talk, read or write. Does it bother you that the eternal God, who knows all things, had to start at the beginning and go through a process where he had to grow in knowledge and wisdom and learn obedience by the things which he suffered until he BECAME perfect (Paul's' swords, "BECOMING perfect"). The LDS doctrine of Christ's birth as a spirit child is very similar to what he experienced on earth. The only substantive difference between what you believe and what we believe is you believe he went through such a learning and growing experience only once, while we believe it happened to him twice. Apparently it doesn't detract from Christ's divinity one iota if he becomes a helpless, innocent baby and has to start from a new beginning and learn in a new realm of reality how to manifest his divinity.

Edited by Bobbieaware
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12 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

Christ was divine before he became a spirit child of God, in much the same way he was divine before he emptied himself and became a helpless baby on earth who didn't know how to crawl, walk, talk, read or write. Does it bother you that the eternal God, who knows all things, had to start at the beginning and go through a process where he had to grow in knowledge and wisdom and learn obedience by the things which he suffered until he BECAME perfect (Paul's' swords, "BECOMING perfect"). The LDS doctrine of Christ's birth as a spirit child is very similar to what he experienced on earth. The only substantive difference between what you believe and what we believe is you believe he went through such a learning and growing experience only once, while we believe it happened to him twice. Apparently it doesn't detract from Christ's divinity one iota if he becomes a helpless, innocent baby and has to start from a new beginning and learn in a new realm of reality how to manifest his divinity.

Every male that openeth the womb is called holy to the Lord. So in that sense we are all divine. But Christ was not the first begotten Son of the Father before He was begotten. I don't like the word "divine" because it is really too nonspecific. Anyway Christ was once a plain child of God like us.

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20 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Being the only member of the Church in my family (38 plus years now) I have had my share of both loving and harsh reactions to my beliefs. My parents never doubted my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but in the beginning had concerns about doctrine. But for most of my extended family, time and constancy have at long last brought peace of mind as to my Faith. 

But in that time, (or) during that time, when I would visit family in Church, my childhood ministers would openly attack my beliefs. Even at my Father's funeral this occurred. In so doing it caused my parents pain at the time, causing them (as parents do) in my behalf to be angry. I was not and asked that they forgive what happened. In the last couple of years of my Mother's life she would often speak of seeing my Father, and how she looked forward to the day when he would come for her, or see him again. For the record, my parents both believed that relationships last beyond the grave, but others in their family and Church did not believe as they (and I) did.

About six months before my Mother passed away, my Aunt next door (we were living my Mother caring for her) called and told me that I need to stop telling her that she will know my Father when she dies. In the Church that I was raised, we were taught that if saved we will be in heaven together, but we will not know what relationship that we had with our loved ones. When I explained to my Aunt that she had Alhiemers, and would not remember anything I told her; she (my Aunt) wanted to know where she got such notions, and that I need to set her straight. On that day, I had just had enough, and warned her not to attempt in any way to add to my Mother's pain by "imposing" her beliefs upon her. I am sad to say that I was not kind, but later apologized. 

I know most here live in areas where Mormonism is the dominant Faith, in numbers anyway. I was recently reading in LDS Scripture where it states that, (too paraphrase) "we are free to act, rather than to be acted upon". Living in Georgia, where there is a small number of Latter-day Saints, it is easy to feel outnumber and imposed upon by other Faiths. As I would suppose others may feel the same being non-Mormon, living out West. 

So, as to the long way around question...when do we know when to remain silent about our beliefs as to not seem to aggressive? Also when should we be more aggressive when false and damaging doctrines are being preached? I recently had a serious falling out over the doctrine of "Calvinism", and the doctrine that Jesus only atoned for the sins of those whom God had already chosen for salvation. This doctrine is called "limited atonement". In my zeal to explain that Jesus Christ atoned for all sins, and that all who choose, my choose salvation, I called "Limited Atonement" the doctrine of demons. 

So...

When do any of you feel imposed upon?

When MUST we make a stand?

How do we find balance between "Preaching and Teaching"? Ye Southerners will understand the difference in the two. 

I felt imposed upon by my mother who I felt was trying to stop my wife from marrying me. I felt it was because of her LDS background although at the time she was not going to Church. At the time I was furious, and let my mother have it, and told her to stop interfering. For my part I realize religion has become one of those non-PC subjects, so I largely keep my mouth shut unless the topic arises, or I am asked about a specific subject, which is rare since I am in an LDS area. But I let my views be known on this board. I too feel, the doctrine of limited atonement is a doctrine of demons. It is certainly not an idea put in Calvin's head by Christ who died for all who will repent. So I am with you there, but try posting that on the limited atonement forum of TOL! - you will have your hands full. I am not a preachy person, but I will not back down from stating my true belief, and will not couch it in Protestant form just for their sake. However, I am not going to go sit in a Protestant class and then start preaching LDS doctrine to them.

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20 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Being the only member of the Church in my family (38 plus years now) I have had my share of both loving and harsh reactions to my beliefs. My parents never doubted my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but in the beginning had concerns about doctrine. But for most of my extended family, time and constancy have at long last brought peace of mind as to my Faith. 

But in that time, (or) during that time, when I would visit family in Church, my childhood ministers would openly attack my beliefs. Even at my Father's funeral this occurred. In so doing it caused my parents pain at the time, causing them (as parents do) in my behalf to be angry. I was not and asked that they forgive what happened. In the last couple of years of my Mother's life she would often speak of seeing my Father, and how she looked forward to the day when he would come for her, or see him again. For the record, my parents both believed that relationships last beyond the grave, but others in their family and Church did not believe as they (and I) did.

About six months before my Mother passed away, my Aunt next door (we were living my Mother caring for her) called and told me that I need to stop telling her that she will know my Father when she dies. In the Church that I was raised, we were taught that if saved we will be in heaven together, but we will not know what relationship that we had with our loved ones. When I explained to my Aunt that she had Alhiemers, and would not remember anything I told her; she (my Aunt) wanted to know where she got such notions, and that I need to set her straight. On that day, I had just had enough, and warned her not to attempt in any way to add to my Mother's pain by "imposing" her beliefs upon her. I am sad to say that I was not kind, but later apologized. 

I know most here live in areas where Mormonism is the dominant Faith, in numbers anyway. I was recently reading in LDS Scripture where it states that, (too paraphrase) "we are free to act, rather than to be acted upon". Living in Georgia, where there is a small number of Latter-day Saints, it is easy to feel outnumber and imposed upon by other Faiths. As I would suppose others may feel the same being non-Mormon, living out West. 

So, as to the long way around question...when do we know when to remain silent about our beliefs as to not seem to aggressive? Also when should we be more aggressive when false and damaging doctrines are being preached? I recently had a serious falling out over the doctrine of "Calvinism", and the doctrine that Jesus only atoned for the sins of those whom God had already chosen for salvation. This doctrine is called "limited atonement". In my zeal to explain that Jesus Christ atoned for all sins, and that all who choose, my choose salvation, I called "Limited Atonement" the doctrine of demons. 

So...

When do any of you feel imposed upon?

When MUST we make a stand?

How do we find balance between "Preaching and Teaching"? Ye Southerners will understand the difference in the two. 

These are great questions.

Elder Christofferson's last conference talk addresses this a little by stating that "warning" our neighbors (or sharing our beliefs) must always be done in love. Steps must be taken not to shame a person for their beliefs.

Personally I don't see any harm in sharing beliefs with a person even if I know they will disagree, but if I continue to push my beliefs or judgments on them then I think it is both rude and counterproductive and will do more to push people away then to influence them in a positive way.

It's not our job to save people from their beliefs or behaviors. All we can do is offer them love. They don't need to know or constantly be reminded of my disapproval or disagreement.

Share. Be open for follow up should they ask or engage. Be prepared to love even when they don't change.

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20 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Being the only member of the Church in my family (38 plus years now) I have had my share of both loving and harsh reactions to my beliefs. My parents never doubted my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but in the beginning had concerns about doctrine. But for most of my extended family, time and constancy have at long last brought peace of mind as to my Faith. 

But in that time, (or) during that time, when I would visit family in Church, my childhood ministers would openly attack my beliefs. Even at my Father's funeral this occurred. In so doing it caused my parents pain at the time, causing them (as parents do) in my behalf to be angry. I was not and asked that they forgive what happened. In the last couple of years of my Mother's life she would often speak of seeing my Father, and how she looked forward to the day when he would come for her, or see him again. For the record, my parents both believed that relationships last beyond the grave, but others in their family and Church did not believe as they (and I) did.

About six months before my Mother passed away, my Aunt next door (we were living my Mother caring for her) called and told me that I need to stop telling her that she will know my Father when she dies. In the Church that I was raised, we were taught that if saved we will be in heaven together, but we will not know what relationship that we had with our loved ones. When I explained to my Aunt that she had Alhiemers, and would not remember anything I told her; she (my Aunt) wanted to know where she got such notions, and that I need to set her straight. On that day, I had just had enough, and warned her not to attempt in any way to add to my Mother's pain by "imposing" her beliefs upon her. I am sad to say that I was not kind, but later apologized. 

I know most here live in areas where Mormonism is the dominant Faith, in numbers anyway. I was recently reading in LDS Scripture where it states that, (too paraphrase) "we are free to act, rather than to be acted upon". Living in Georgia, where there is a small number of Latter-day Saints, it is easy to feel outnumber and imposed upon by other Faiths. As I would suppose others may feel the same being non-Mormon, living out West. 

So, as to the long way around question...when do we know when to remain silent about our beliefs as to not seem to aggressive? Also when should we be more aggressive when false and damaging doctrines are being preached? I recently had a serious falling out over the doctrine of "Calvinism", and the doctrine that Jesus only atoned for the sins of those whom God had already chosen for salvation. This doctrine is called "limited atonement". In my zeal to explain that Jesus Christ atoned for all sins, and that all who choose, my choose salvation, I called "Limited Atonement" the doctrine of demons. 

So...

When do any of you feel imposed upon?

When MUST we make a stand?

How do we find balance between "Preaching and Teaching"? Ye Southerners will understand the difference in the two. 

Finding balance in our Mutual Respect for others who might not share ones particular beliefs is a delicate dance we all should hope to achieve and work towards.  Tolerance for ideas that conflict with our own is not generally fostered in fundamentalist religions.  The notion of having one true church or point of view is an idea that is not unique to Mormonism as evidence by this minister, but holding to such a belief can and does promote the kind of intolerance for others that you experienced.  It can be particularly painful when that intolerance is turned against oneself by others who are intolerant.

I feel bad that you had to bite your tongue when you were confronted by the ill timed attack of your beliefs at your fathers funeral.  That you did hold you tongue speaks to your character...I doubt I could have been so respectful.  

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21 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

When MUST we make a stand?

I always make a stand, in terms of standing my ground.  I think that if we all can learn to stand our ground without imposing on, or standing on other peoples ground, the right balance can be found.  

21 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Also when should we be more aggressive when false and damaging doctrines are being preached? I recently had a serious falling out over the doctrine of "Calvinism", and the doctrine that Jesus only atoned for the sins of those whom God had already chosen for salvation. This doctrine is called "limited atonement". In my zeal to explain that Jesus Christ atoned for all sins, and that all who choose, my choose salvation, I called "Limited Atonement" the doctrine of demons. 

We need to welcome diversity in belief, even if we strongly disagree.  I think things always work better when we don't impose our beliefs or attack the beliefs of other people, for the same reason that we don't want to be imposed upon or attacked (the golden rule).  Think of how you felt when your childhood ministers attacked your beliefs.  What you might perceive as simply preaching the truth in zeal ("the doctrine of demons"), others will perceive that as an attack on their sacred and deeply held personal beliefs.  In so doing, we are really no different from your childhood ministers who probably feel that they are simply teaching the truth in zeal too. I think you understand that approach doesn't work for you, and it will equally not work for them.  Their beliefs are just as real and true to them as our beliefs are to us.  The only effective way to teach is to invite, and we should never feel the obligation or duty to teach or preach to those who are not interested in listening. 

I am really good at doing that when I am not being attacked for my beliefs.  But when I feel attacked, I have a really hard time holding my tongue.  That is my weakness. 

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20 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

Who would want to belong to any church that taught that all other churches were just as true?

Lots of people. The idea that one's own church is the only true church may appeal to the ego, but it is harmful to the spirit.

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10 minutes ago, Gray said:

Lots of people. The idea that one's own church is the only true church may appeal to the ego, but it is harmful to the spirit.

Or more harmful to constructive dialog, anyway. 

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1 hour ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Finding balance in our Mutual Respect for others who might not share ones particular beliefs is a delicate dance we all should hope to achieve and work towards.  Tolerance for ideas that conflict with our own is not generally fostered in fundamentalist religions.  The notion of having one true church or point of view is an idea that is not unique to Mormonism as evidence by this minister, but holding to such a belief can and does promote the kind of intolerance for others that you experienced.  It can be particularly painful when that intolerance is turned against oneself by others who are intolerant.

I feel bad that you had to bite your tongue when you were confronted by the ill timed attack of your beliefs at your fathers funeral.  That you did hold you tongue speaks to your character...I doubt I could have been so respectful.  

It was odd for them to "seek to undo" my remarks when I spoke at his funeral. Even though all I did was read from the writings of Apostle Paul. What was in my mind unforgivable (at the time, since I forgave all) was the pain it brought to my mother. As for tolerance in the Christian world, just look at my sig line to see what someone once told me about, "Christian Tolerance". Just realized when I updated my account I let it out. He said, or wrote, just as I do now...

There is no such thing as CHRISTIAN TOLERANCE!! 

Edited by Bill "Papa" Lee
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22 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

When do any of you feel imposed upon?

When MUST we make a stand?

How do we find balance between "Preaching and Teaching"? Ye Southerners will understand the difference in the two. 

The first rule I have is asking myself what will be accomplished by an action or statement I will say.  If all that will come is contention and division, best to not say or do anything.  However if someone asks our opinion or views on something, it is at that point they open the door and we can and must take a stand.  Preaching only works to a receptive audience.  Teaching only works if people are open to be taught.  The best we can do is just do what we believe is right and be an example and perhaps some of it be noticed by people over time.

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