Next-Level Book of Mormon LARPing - Arizona Stake Goes All-In on Youth Activity

[stemelbow]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

They look like they are having fun. By what standard is it a waste of time?

1200 costumes made?  As pogi suggested $40,000 worth for  bus rides?  I don't think I'd have a good time as a youth but I'm sure it'd be fun for some.  

I just spoke with a friend who helped organize a varsity age program for kids.  They basically had a stake member donate 40000 grand for road work donated to a scout camp.  The boys went and helped lay it.  The food and program put on by the scouts I guess was horrible.  I was like feed the homeless in slc for the summer.  It'd probably cost less and actually be useful to someone.  

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

1200 costumes made?  As pogi suggested $40,000 worth for  bus rides?  I don't think I'd have a good time as a youth but I'm sure it'd be fun for some.  

I just spoke with a friend who helped organize a varsity age program for kids.  They basically had a stake member donate 40000 grand for road work donated to a scout camp.  The boys went and helped lay it.  The food and program put on by the scouts I guess was horrible.  I was like feed the homeless in slc for the summer.  It'd probably cost less and actually be useful to someone.  

I find the near pathological need some people have to critique the charitable activities of others by trying to point out better uses for money very depressing. I sometimes wonder whether it is some kind of defensive posturing because they give less and want to diminish the good others do to prevent some kind of inferiority complex.

[cinepro]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Looks like there are several of these. This one in 2017...wow! 

 

That video shows kids with their faces painted.  In the one I posted, the stake didn't allow any face paint.

 

Quote

Restrictions: No camis/tank tops, short shorts, flip flops, open toed shoes, personal jewelry, modern fabrics, including pink leopard, floral prints, camo, neon, etc. In addition, skin/face painting or temporary tattoos will not be allowed.

http://www.moronisquestaz.com/uncategorized/clothing/

 

[MiserereNobis]

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I find the near pathological need some people have to critique the charitable activities of others by trying to point out better uses for money very depressing. I sometimes wonder whether it is some kind of defensive posturing because they give less and want to diminish the good others do to prevent some kind of inferiority complex.

I come back frequently to Jesus allowing his feet to bathed with highly expensive perfumed oil and being rebuked for it, because the money could have been spent on the poor.

Now, I'm not making a statement one way or another about this thread's particular activity, but the answer cannot always be "it's better if it is given to the poor."

Likewise, it is also good to give to the poor.

It's a good thing God can help us discern.

(Catholics are often attacked because of the money we spend on churches, cathedrals, etc... our response is usually pointing out the story of Jesus and the oil)

[RevTestament]

5 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I come back frequently to Jesus allowing his feet to bathed with highly expensive perfumed oil and being rebuked for it, because the money could have been spent on the poor.

Now, I'm not making a statement one way or another about this thread's particular activity, but the answer cannot always be "it's better if it is given to the poor."

Likewise, it is also good to give to the poor.

It's a good thing God can help us discern.

(Catholics are often attacked because of the money we spend on churches, cathedrals, etc... our response is usually pointing out the story of Jesus and the oil)

Giving in order to give our own children experiences that will teach them, and that they'll remember is also a very worthwhile gift. If it saves even 10 % from slipping into inactivity, it is money well spent, and will return itself many times.

[MiserereNobis]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are parishes and dioceses that do Biblical and/or early Church reenactments (lions in the colosseum, etc), but not ours. We just make our youth go spend a week in a monastery or a convent. Not quite as dramatic, mind you, but much more easily dealt with when it comes to logistics

 

Edited July 6, 2017 by MiserereNobis

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

I come back frequently to Jesus allowing his feet to bathed with highly expensive perfumed oil and being rebuked for it, because the money could have been spent on the poor.

Now, I'm not making a statement one way or another about this thread's particular activity, but the answer cannot always be "it's better if it is given to the poor."

Likewise, it is also good to give to the poor.

It's a good thing God can help us discern.

(Catholics are often attacked because of the money we spend on churches, cathedrals, etc... our response is usually pointing out the story of Jesus and the oil)

We have used that same story to defend temples. Along with our assertion that they are helping to deliver people from hell to a better place.

I would respect anyone who lived on the bare minimum required and gave all their excess to the poor and would allow them to critique church expenditures without calling them out. I have only met one such person in my life and I doubt she has it in her to criticize how other people choose to help others. I am certainly not in that boat. I love playing with my money in investments and speculation. I like having a house bigger and nicer then what I require. I like vacations. I do give to help others but not nearly as much as I could.

[MiserereNobis]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I love playing with my money in investments and speculation. I like having a house bigger and nicer then what I require. I like vacations. I do give to help others but not nearly as much as I could.

And I pray God forgive us both for our frailities. And as He made Himself human, I have much hope that He will.

[stemelbow]

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I find the near pathological need some people have to critique the charitable activities of others by trying to point out better uses for money very depressing. I sometimes wonder whether it is some kind of defensive posturing because they give less and want to diminish the good others do to prevent some kind of inferiority complex.

Well luckily my need isn't pathological.  I'm more like, "eh...shrug...feels like a waste to me".

[stemelbow]

9 hours ago, cinepro said:

That video shows kids with their faces painted.  In the one I posted, the stake didn't allow any face paint.

 

 

Rule breaking ba....ds

[Hamba Tuhan]

20 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Well luckily my need isn't pathological.  I'm more like, "eh...shrug...feels like a waste to me".

Do you realise this is now the fourth time you've felt compelled to disinterestedly 'shrug' this off in the just first two pages of this thread...?

Edited July 6, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan

[Gray]

That's some pretty intense LARPing. They should take it to SDCC. Obscure references usually earn a lot of respect

[stemelbow]

8 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Do you realise this is now the fourth time you've felt compelled to disinterestedly 'shrug' this off in the just first two pages of this thread...?

I said it once, people asked more, so I responded. 

[Senator]

These things rub me the wrong way. I wish I was more articulate to relate just why that is...

[stemelbow]

15 minutes ago, Senator said:

These things rub me the wrong way. I wish I was more articulate to relate just why that is...

When the guy near the first of the video was riding across the field on a horse rather than a tapir, I knew they weren't intending to be true to the story. 

[Five Solas]

It would be interesting to know what the long term effect will be for the young persons involved.  Will events like this help the LDS Church with its 72% attrition rate by age 20 (statistic courtesy of MormonLeaks)?  Will acting out the Book of Mormon seal upon their minds that the people & events described therein are nonfiction (the tapir/horse confusion notwithstanding)? 

Or would it be sufficient that the kids enjoyed a few days outdoors and built some fun and pleasant memories?  (Okay, maybe not the one they burned at the stake.)

--Erik

[Johnnie Cake]

20 hours ago, cinepro said:

I've seen a lot of youth activities, treks and camps.  But I've never seen anything like this.  Two stakes in Arizona took the kids into the woods for three days and reenacted the Book of Mormon.  As they say in Hollywood, it had a "cast of thousands", and the logistics alone on this are incredible.  If Abinadi at 2:10 doesn't convince you this is the best activity ever, I don't know what will.

But the Joseph Smith at the end should have been holding an 1830s Book of Mormon.

Cringe...I feel sorry for these poor kids

Edited July 6, 2017 by Johnnie Cake

[Jeanne]

15 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Cringe...I feel sorry for these poor kids

One of the things I first thought about was their testimonies.  Will they break someday?  Will they find out things that will take a wonderful experience and make them weep?

I love that the LDS church cares about their youth...I mean, LDS youth are hangin' in the streets usually..and doing good things..but I ache that their minds will be looking for this illusive and sustaining testimony that may be tested someday.

P.S.  I was banned on the thread about bikers and dobermans...may I apologize for whatever my 3 and 5 year old..(from mouths of babes)..pronounced Pocatello?  At the time it was funny to Mom and as a family it was a family joke.  Of course, my husband and I fixed the pronunciation.  I know this is a mormon board and it belongs to you.  But some of our discussions as adults seem to carry forth...perhaps I misunderstood that we were all adults??  In any case, I apologize.  I tried to start a thread on social to see why I was banned and to make amends...it was taken down.  (Sorry Scott...didn't get to see your Judy Garland)...In any case, if I have offended, my apologies.

[Tacenda]

17 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

One of the things I first thought about was their testimonies.  Will they break someday?  Will they find out things that will take a wonderful experience and make them weep?

I love that the LDS church cares about their youth...I mean, LDS youth are hangin' in the streets usually..and doing good things..but I ache that their minds will be looking for this illusive and sustaining testimony that may be tested someday.

P.S.  I was banned on the thread about bikers and dobermans...may I apologize for whatever my 3 and 5 year old..(from mouths of babes)..pronounced Pocatello?  At the time it was funny to Mom and as a family it was a family joke.  Of course, my husband and I fixed the pronunciation.  I know this is a mormon board and it belongs to you.  But some of our discussions as adults seem to carry forth...perhaps I misunderstood that we were all adults??  In any case, I apologize.  I tried to start a thread on social to see why I was banned and to make amends...it was taken down.  (Sorry Scott...didn't get to see your Judy Garland)...In any case, if I have offended, my apologies.

My nephew's experience with Moroni's Quest or something like it, changed his mind and propelled him into getting ready for a mission. Where before he was not going down that road. 

He went on his mission and had to return early due to a back problem, which the doctor verified came from riding his bike. I'm not kidding. 

Then he got married to a young gal in the temple, and it ended in divorce a year later. And now he's pretty much out of the church. And has the tattoo'd sleeve up his arm. My sister is pretty sad that his life went that way. She and her husband were on the camp with their son and saw his transformation. But like you mentioned, maybe that testimony, or fast one, didn't sustain him. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by Tacenda

[pogi]

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The Church has paid much more then that because a Seventy thought the color of the spire that held up Moroni was not quite right. For something that looks this awesome....money well spent.

I guess value is in the eye of the beholder, and "awesome" is subjective. To me it looks tacky and forced, as well as excessively extravagant. From the perspective of a youth leader (Scout Master) who goes camping with the youth each month, this looks like an absolute nightmare to me.  I just pray that this does not catch on as the next trek experience on steroids.  This is like a glorified version of the old road-shows that the church rightly did away with.  To me it completely misses the mark of the spiritual experience, and adds unnecessary stress for the leaders and time away from families to make the logistics of this MASSIVE production a reality.  I don't see it as a sustainable program church wide, both financially and in terms of the burden on the leaders with the required effort and time-commitment.  I am sure it was a fun event for some of the youth though, but there are a lot easier and cheaper ways to have fun. 

I believe in the principles of minimalism and simplicity generally speaking, but especially in spiritual matters.  I think that this activity is going in the opposite direction the church is directing us.  The church is leaning away from such extravagance in an effort to simplify programs, taking its cues from Theraue 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2008/11/let-him-do-it-with-simplicity?lang=eng

https://www.mormonchannel.org/listen/series/mormon-channel-daily-audio/how-to-simplify-your-life

https://www.mormonchannel.org/listen/series/mormon-channel-daily-audio/more-ways-to-simplify-your-life

https://www.mormonchannel.org/blog/post/5-ways-to-simplify-your-life

https://www.lds.org/church/news/the-ensign-home-page-a-resource-to-simplify-your-life?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2005/12/questions-and-answers?lang=eng

Quote

“May I give you a word of caution as you plan your activities. Make sure that the essential needs are met, but do not go overboard in creating so many good things to do that the essential ones are not accomplished. … Remember, don’t magnify the work to be done—simplify it.” Elder Richard G. Scott of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, “The Doctrinal Foundation of the Auxiliaries,” Ensign, Aug. 2005, 67

I am a backpacker and take my scouts backpacking all the time.  It is a great life lesson in simplifying.  You only pack what you can carry.  It causes the boys to think about what is really important, and to decide what is really necessary and what is excess.  I wish that people would learn to apply the same principles in life, but especially in church programs.  As an avid backpacker, meditation practitioner, and minimalist, I cringe at activities like this. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by pogi

[Tacenda]

36 minutes ago, pogi said:

I guess value is in the eye of the beholder, and "awesome" is subjective. To me it looks tacky and forced, as well as extravagant and pompous. From the perspective of a youth leader (Scout Master) who goes camping with the youth each month, this looks like an absolute nightmare to me.  I just pray that this does not catch on as the next trek experience on steroids.  This is like a glorified version of the old road-shows that the church rightly did away with.  To me it completely misses the mark of the spiritual experience, and adds unnecessary stress for the leaders and time away from families to make the logistics of this MASSIVE production a reality.  I don't see it as a sustainable program church wide, both financially and in terms of the burden on the leaders with the required effort and time-commitment.  I am sure it was a fun event for some of the youth though, but there are a lot easier and cheaper ways to have fun. 

I believe in the principles of minimalism and simplicity generally speaking, but especially in spiritual matters.  I think that this activity is going in the opposite direction the church is directing us.  The church is leaning away from such extravagance in an effort to simplify programs, taking its cues from Theraue 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2008/11/let-him-do-it-with-simplicity?lang=eng

https://www.mormonchannel.org/listen/series/mormon-channel-daily-audio/how-to-simplify-your-life

https://www.mormonchannel.org/listen/series/mormon-channel-daily-audio/more-ways-to-simplify-your-life

https://www.mormonchannel.org/blog/post/5-ways-to-simplify-your-life

https://www.lds.org/church/news/the-ensign-home-page-a-resource-to-simplify-your-life?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2005/12/questions-and-answers?lang=eng

I am a backpacker and take my scouts backpacking all the time.  It is a great life lesson in simplifying.  You only pack what you can carry.  It causes the boys to think about what is really important, and to decide what is really necessary and what is excess.  I wish that people would learn to apply the same principles in life, but especially in church programs.  As an avid backpacker, meditation practitioner, and minimalist, I cringe at activities like this. 

I like simple too. I remember a time when we rented a houseboat with my inlaws and had Sacrament meeting on the boat. The lesson by my brother in law was super simple, but one I will always remember.

Back to the Moroni's Quest, what do you think about the production of "The Saviour of the World" that the youth put on? My stake does this instead, every few years, for youth conference. It rotates I guess. One year trek, then Saviour of the World, then a regular youth conference. 

I honestly loved roadshows while I was young. But I don't know about Moroni's Quest. The more I read about it. It seems pretty extreme. A pretty big push to get the youth to strengthen their testimonies, almost forced with all the drama etc. In one video it shows the Stake President come down as Jesus. Although, in The Saviour of the World, my stake did the same thing where someone reenacted Jesus showing the nail prints. And the youth each came and touched the actor's palmprints. It was a very spiritual experience for them. One they'll never forget and did plant a seed. So who knows? 

I love your backpacking analogy, reminds me of my houseboat church meeting. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by Tacenda

[pogi]

19 hours ago, Calm said:

Parking was likely an issue.  In my current ward it took three mini vans to take one class of Laurels to an outing.  Given how many extra adult drivers that would require, it could have been useful.  These days you require two deep adults even for driving.

1200 kids means about 55 kids per bus, so they were full up.

 

I guess I missed that 1200 youth and leaders attended.  That is 600 from each stake.  Does anybody here see that kind of attendance from their stake at trek?  That seems really high.  These 2 particular stakes must have tons of youth.

I could see parking being a problem, but I think the whole idea is overboard in and of itself.  A big red flag should have been, "we are going to need 22 full sized motor coaches to make this happen".  Not to mention 1,200 costumes and props.  We are going to need someone to build a giant boat, towers, a large and spacious building build out of scaffolding and giant blocks, and someone is going to be in charge of cooking for and cleaning up after 1200 participants...and cost is going to be near $100,000 for a 3 day activity, not counting hundreds and hundreds of volunteer man hours. 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

I guess value is in the eye of the beholder, and "awesome" is subjective. To me it looks tacky and forced, as well as excessively extravagant. From the perspective of a youth leader (Scout Master) who goes camping with the youth each month, this looks like an absolute nightmare to me.  I just pray that this does not catch on as the next trek experience on steroids.  This is like a glorified version of the old road-shows that the church rightly did away with.  To me it completely misses the mark of the spiritual experience, and adds unnecessary stress for the leaders and time away from families to make the logistics of this MASSIVE production a reality.  I don't see it as a sustainable program church wide, both financially and in terms of the burden on the leaders with the required effort and time-commitment.  I am sure it was a fun event for some of the youth though, but there are a lot easier and cheaper ways to have fun. 

I believe in the principles of minimalism and simplicity generally speaking, but especially in spiritual matters.  I think that this activity is going in the opposite direction the church is directing us.  The church is leaning away from such extravagance in an effort to simplify programs, taking its cues from Theraue 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2008/11/let-him-do-it-with-simplicity?lang=eng

https://www.mormonchannel.org/listen/series/mormon-channel-daily-audio/how-to-simplify-your-life

https://www.mormonchannel.org/listen/series/mormon-channel-daily-audio/more-ways-to-simplify-your-life

https://www.mormonchannel.org/blog/post/5-ways-to-simplify-your-life

https://www.lds.org/church/news/the-ensign-home-page-a-resource-to-simplify-your-life?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2005/12/questions-and-answers?lang=eng

I am a backpacker and take my scouts backpacking all the time.  It is a great life lesson in simplifying.  You only pack what you can carry.  It causes the boys to think about what is really important, and to decide what is really necessary and what is excess.  I wish that people would learn to apply the same principles in life, but especially in church programs.  As an avid backpacker, meditation practitioner, and minimalist, I cringe at activities like this. 

There are a lot of activities that i cringe at and a lot of the activities that i love i know others cringe at.   A lot of this stuff really is in the eye of the beholder.  That's why it's good for the youth to get new leaders every couple of years.  None of us will be able to meet the activity needs of every youth in our care, because we won't understand some of their needs (because from our perspective, we won't believe they are needs that are important to meet).

But if someone signed me up to put this kind of thing together, i would suddenly have a family reunion that same week and be unavailable!  This kind of stuff is my worst nightmare!

[pogi]

46 minutes ago, bluebell said:

There are a lot of activities that i cringe at and a lot of the activities that i love i know others cringe at.   A lot of this stuff really is in the eye of the beholder.  That's why it's good for the youth to get new leaders every couple of years.  None of us will be able to meet the activity needs of every youth in our care, because we won't understand some of their needs (because from our perspective, we won't believe they are needs that are important to meet).

But if someone signed me up to put this kind of thing together, i would suddenly have a family reunion that same week and be unavailable!  This kind of stuff is my worst nightmare!

That is a good point.  However, I feel like this particular activity is completely turning a deaf ear to the voice of the general leadership of the church in simplifying activities and work load.  

I worry that this sets a new bar for inter-stake "keeping up with the Jonses", so to speak.  I really, really, really hope it doesn't spread like trek, and becomes something new for stakes to "aspire" to, as we spiral out of control and lose ourselves in the excessive and unnecessary distractions of life and church.  It will become one more GIANT thing to do, and many leaders will be crying behind the scenes, as the youth are left spiritually unsatiated in role playing for the camera.  Look at the faces of the kids being burned alive by the lamanites, that must have been an incredibly spiritual experience.  WHY???

[The Nehor]

My stake is planning a youth expedition to the North to spend a week under the icecaps with the Lost Ten Tribes. We will one-up this tawdry little production.