Thoughts About the Millennium

[clarkgoble]

15 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I'm not so convinced.
A decade or two?  Maybe.  A century?  I doubt it.

Either way you'll have a reasonably long period of expect scientific advance after the second coming. Presumably far more resources could be marshaled for research.

Edited June 21, 2017 by clarkgoble

[Stargazer]

4 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Yes, women will still have babies, but no, I don't think menopause or vasectomies will be reversed. People will continue to grow old and die. For at time the world will have much fewer people than it does now, so it is possible that people will have babies left and right. As to your forbidden topic, it will eventually be done away - at least for a time - for Satan will have  no power over the hearts of men.  

Well, I'm not as sure as you that menopause would not be reversed.  If people who suffer through the tribulation are healed from their illnesses, I don't think there's a reason to assume that this would be limited to non-reproductive problems.  If a woman is in perfect health, and consider that menopause triggers certain degenerative conditions (osteoporosis, for example), then it would make complete sense for it to be reversed.  

[Garden Girl]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Physical functions depend on blood.  If after resurrection something else is what provides us with life, as some scriptures suggest, makes me wonder what physical functions will change as well as possibly physical structures.

 

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Something must be different in the reproduction, otherwise two perfected bodies of flesh and bone would not create a spirit body that was none of those things. 

I'm not sure of all that will take place during the millennium...scriptures tell us children will continue to grow up, etc...  I believe the major work will be the work of the temple, i.e., finding, organizing and sealing of families.  As far as the eternities, I do not believe life will be created in the same way or women will be eternally pregnant in the sense that we know in this sphere.  I believe our reproduction process is a function of this world... (Isa 55:8-9 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.")  I've previously expressed that I believe that the speculation that there will be the same type of sexual relations for creation of life in the eternities is incorrect.  IMO in exaltation we will be in a higher sphere following God's higher thoughts and higher "ways."  Adam's body was created... organized... from the elements and his spirit placed in it.  I envision something similar (or, petrie dishes?) for the Celestial Kingdom, but not the process as we know it...

GG

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Too late, you have already been inducted into the millennium, and I have no doubt that your dry sense of humor will get you a free translation ticket.

If this is the prophesied Millenium then the scriptures really oversold it.

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Why?
Serious question - why?

I don't know why the idea of resurrected beings having spirit children is so frowned upon.  All things are created spiritually first and things on earth are types of things in heaven.

I was just going off of what you said, which was that our reproduction works the same way here as it does in heaven.   But our reproduction here is, like you say, based on a fallen world and based on mortal bodies.  Knowing that, i don't know how it's possible to say that it's the same here as it is in heaven.  Heavenly Bodies are not very much like our fallen bodies.

As to your last statement, I think the idea breaks down even more when you bring up how all things were created spiritually first.  Spiritual plants were not created at all like physical plants are created (if our understanding of the creation is correct).  The creation of spirit does not seem to follow the physical rules of creation.

For the record, i'm not saying that heavenly bodies are not involved the creation of spirit children.  I'm just saying that I don't think the involvement would be very similar to how we procreate here because mortal bodies and resurrected bodies have some very fundamental differences.

[RevTestament]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

If this is the prophesied Millenium then the scriptures really oversold it.

Um, no. The Church oversold it. It won't get good for awhile, but for you it doesn't matter assuming you are a righteous LDS member which you seem to be, because you won't be here. So for you, it will be awesome. Have a nice time.  

The world has to endure the 7 plagues of the seventh seal per Revelation.

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

If I am in heaven and have nothing more interesting to do then discuss the relative freeness of Israel I am going to complain that heaven was overhyped in scripture and go punch Paul in the nose for false advertising.

See, you're cheering up already!

[juliann]

10 hours ago, MorningStar said:

 

Is the millennium going to involve people having babies left and right? 

 

So you consider pregnancy God's idea of the perfect body? I take it we won't be wearing shoes with laces?

[Stargazer]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

I was just going off of what you said, which was that our reproduction works the same way here as it does in heaven.   But our reproduction here is, like you say, based on a fallen world and based on mortal bodies.  Knowing that, i don't know how it's possible to say that it's the same here as it is in heaven.  Heavenly Bodies are not very much like our fallen bodies.

As to your last statement, I think the idea breaks down even more when you bring up how all things were created spiritually first.  Spiritual plants were not created at all like physical plants are created (if our understanding of the creation is correct).  The creation of spirit does not seem to follow the physical rules of creation.

For the record, i'm not saying that heavenly bodies are not involved the creation of spirit children.  I'm just saying that I don't think the involvement would be very similar to how we procreate here because mortal bodies and resurrected bodies have some very fundamental differences.

You're right, I believe.  The spiritual creation would have no resemblance to the physical creation.  

[JLHPROF]

8 hours ago, Stargazer said:

You're right, I believe.  The spiritual creation would have no resemblance to the physical creation.

And yet nobody has been able to provide a single scriptural or gospel based reason for that theory.

If God is male and female and we are made in their image and marriage is eternal and gender is eternal, what is the purpose?
We may not know for sure how spirit children are created, but I have no problem in there being a sexual component to it.  There is nothing in scripture to make me think otherwise.

[MorningStar]

12 hours ago, juliann said:

So you consider pregnancy God's idea of the perfect body? I take it we won't be wearing shoes with laces?

#flipflops4eva

 

[MorningStar]

12 hours ago, juliann said:

So you consider pregnancy God's idea of the perfect body? I take it we won't be wearing shoes with laces?

No, I don't consider that the perfect body.  I wondered if women would be healed of various conditions that would allow them to give birth during the millennium, even in old age.  I'm not talking about the state of a resurrected body. 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

And yet nobody has been able to provide a single scriptural or gospel based reason for that theory.

If God is male and female and we are made in their image and marriage is eternal and gender is eternal, what is the purpose?
We may not know for sure how spirit children are created, but I have no problem in there being a sexual component to it.  There is nothing in scripture to make me think otherwise.

Male and female needed for creation, sure.  But if one of the main components in making a woman's body nurturing to the fertilized egg and sustaining the baby is blood and that is missing, that right there is a significant difference.  Blood volume is also a critical aspect of man's contribution.  Take away blood, what is left functioning of the physical process that we are familiar with?

Edited June 21, 2017 by Calm

[JLHPROF]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

Male and female needed for creation, sure.  But if one of the main components in making a woman's body nurturing to the fertilized egg and sustaining the baby is blood and that is missing, that right there is a significant difference.  Blood volume is also a critical aspect of man's contribution.  Take away blood, what is left functioning of the physical process that we are familiar with?

There is no reason that the pure matter Joseph spoke of cannot perform the same function as blood does in mortality.
And probably perform it better.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, MorningStar said:

No, I don't consider that the perfect body.  I wondered if women would be healed of various conditions that would allow them to give birth during the millennium, even in old age.  I'm not talking about the state of a resurrected body. 

Plus if one is healthy and long lived with no postpartum, easy recovery, etc. even if one had 5 children in one's adult life, that is ten years out of 90 let's say where the body is devoted a great deal to babymaking.  I know women for whom pregnancy barely requires a change in their physical abilities.  I look on that as the most common/only state in the millennium.  No more sorrow associated with childbirth, etc.

The scriptures and teachings seem to imply to me it is a time of choice of reproduction, not required.  Those who want children can have them, those who don't have plenty of other worthy projects to engage in to further God's Kingdom.

[Calm]

Just now, JLHPROF said:

There is no reason that the pure matter Joseph spoke of cannot perform the same function as blood does in mortality.
And probably perform it better.

But there is no reason to suppose it does.  The scriptures don't really focus on that specific aspect of the resurrected body, imo.

[JLHPROF]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

But there is no reason to suppose it does.  The scriptures don't really focus on that specific aspect of the resurrected body, imo.

You hear hoofbeats, you think horses, not zebras.
I see no reason to conclude a different method of spirit creation when there is no reason to doubt the continuation of the current method.
 

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

You hear hoofbeats, you think horses, not zebras.
I see no reason to conclude a different method of spirit creation when there is no reason to doubt the continuation of the current method.
 

Where are the hoofbeats?

[JLHPROF]

30 minutes ago, Calm said:

Where are the hoofbeats?

Any scripture or ordinance that speaks of eternal family, eternal increase, spirit creation, that lists God as the Father/Creator of our spirits.

 

[Glenn101]

On 6/20/2017 at 4:38 PM, RevTestament said:

People will continue to grow old and die.

I do not believe the last part of the statement is exactly correct. Let's take a look at Doctrine and Covenants Section 101:

"29 And there shall be no sorrow because there is no death.
30 In that day an infant shall not die until he is old; and his life shall be as the age of a tree;
31 And when he dies he shall not sleep, that is to say in the earth, but shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and shall be caught up, and his rest shall be glorious."

There is sort of a contradiction there because in one verse it says there will be no death, but then in the next verse it says that a person will die at an very old age, but then it says that such an one will not actually do the sleep (of death I presume) but will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

I have no ide whether there will be a general regeneration or other physical changes upon the advent of the Millennium, but surely a regeneration would be possible, either through a wholesale "rapture" or through individual blessings.

Some of us may live to see this. Others of us will have to hope for a part in the first resurrection. And then, some of us may wind up being ministering angels for the Nehor.

Glenn

[MiserereNobis]

It is these kind of threads that have mainstream Christians looking a little askance at Mormons.  But good for you for owning your uniqueness!

Too bad Ahab isn't here to interject his belief that in heaven we will be doing laundry and cooking and cleaning

As for me, being an eternal father has never been appealing.  I love my two sons to death, but I don't view heaven as having more and more children.  Terrible twos over and over again for eternity?  But seriously, the beatific vision appealed to me the moment I heard about it.

I believe that whatever God's reward to us, we will be perfectly happy, and what we think we want now probably isn't what we will want when our eyes are opened and we see everything as it is.

[RevTestament]

2 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

I do not believe the last part of the statement is exactly correct. Let's take a look at Doctrine and Covenants Section 101:

"29 And there shall be no sorrow because there is no death.
30 In that day an infant shall not die until he is old; and his life shall be as the age of a tree;
31 And when he dies he shall not sleep, that is to say in the earth, but shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and shall be caught up, and his rest shall be glorious."

There is sort of a contradiction there because in one verse it says there will be no death, but then in the next verse it says that a person will die at an very old age, but then it says that such an one will not actually do the sleep (of death I presume) but will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

I have no ide whether there will be a general regeneration or other physical changes upon the advent of the Millennium, but surely a regeneration would be possible, either through a wholesale "rapture" or through individual blessings.

Glenn

Thanks for your input Glenn. I do know there are several resurrection events before Satan is bound. When he is bound throughout the earth I suppose there is no need for anyone to wait in spirit prison, so it gets bypassed into an immediate "resurrection" or translation. Sounds very different doesn't it? I believe this period will be some 400+ years. But, we also know that at the end of the millennium, Satan is loosed again, so there will have to be at least one final resurrection.

Quote

Some of us may live to see this. Others of us will have to hope for a part in the first resurrection. And then, some of us may wind up being ministering angels for the Nehor.

Many living church members will see Yeshua come in the clouds and be translated. But for the part of the millennium 101 is referring to, I believe it won't happen for hundreds of years yet. If you want to minister to the Nehor, be my guest...I like him, but not that much.  

[JAHS]

On 6/21/2017 at 8:38 AM, JLHPROF said:

On 6/20/2017 at 11:58 PM, Stargazer said:

You're right, I believe.  The spiritual creation would have no resemblance to the physical creation.

And yet nobody has been able to provide a single scriptural or gospel based reason for that theory.

If God is male and female and we are made in their image and marriage is eternal and gender is eternal, what is the purpose?
We may not know for sure how spirit children are created, but I have no problem in there being a sexual component to it.  There is nothing in scripture to make me think otherwise.

Some Church authorities have described spirit birth as an organization of existing matter. Spencer W. Kimball wrote, 
"Our spirit matter was eternal and co-existent with God, but it was organized into spirit bodies by our Heavenly Father" (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 5, Salt Lake City, 1969). 

Marion G. Romney, of the First Presidency, speaking of people's origin as children of God, stated, 
"Through that birth process, self-existing intelligence was organized into individual spirit beings" (Ensign 8 Nov. 1978). 

Calling it an organization of spirit/intelligent matter does not sound to me like there is any kind of sexual component involved, the same way we know it. I mean we are talking billions  upon billions of spirit children being created.  

 

[The Nehor]

On 6/21/2017 at 3:53 PM, JLHPROF said:

You hear hoofbeats, you think horses, not zebras.
I see no reason to conclude a different method of spirit creation when there is no reason to doubt the continuation of the current method.
 

Nor is there a strong case for belief in the continuation of the current method.

[Stargazer]

On 6/21/2017 at 8:38 AM, JLHPROF said:

And yet nobody has been able to provide a single scriptural or gospel based reason for that theory.

If God is male and female and we are made in their image and marriage is eternal and gender is eternal, what is the purpose?
We may not know for sure how spirit children are created, but I have no problem in there being a sexual component to it.  There is nothing in scripture to make me think otherwise.

Likewise, there is nothing in scripture to support there being a sexual component to it.