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Bill "Papa" Lee

SLT, reported that the "Bible Answer Man" (Hank Hannagraff) had joined the EO! And was fired, now there is a part 11

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The origins of the "Bible Answer Man", started in and around Salt Lake City, and all got their start as anti-Mormons which grew into something more. When Walter Martin passed away, Hank Hannafraff, took over as a mater of course Rev. Martin's duties.. He knew Martin's job the best. and with that touch being passed so he become the "Bible Answer Man", a man for the 30 years. Hannagraff (I hope  for Hank's sake I am spelling his name correctly). Despite those decades of service to the cause of the Bible and serving as President of the "Christian Research Institute. Upon of hearing his conversion, all radio stations took him off the air, not sure why, he still believes the Bible. 

In comes the new "Bible Answer Man", who over time has been losing money to keep his ship aflote. So when he was offered the chance to take over those stations, he jumped at the chance. He created created the largest anti-everything website to date. Anyway, now he works out of basement room (as I can see not light, no pun intended). His calls come in via his work phone and call waiting, when he had the chance to just talk and defend the Bible, he could not keep from attacking the beliefs of others. This may have led to the reason that he lost those stations. 

It it is sad that so many in the cult-watchers, all began with a plan to snuff out Mormons, but it all grew into an "anti-everybody. He has built this little empire, using Mormons first to build his site, and get critics, who dislike us as well. Every website I have visited I have seen more threads, answers and posts concerning Mormonism than any other. This site has been losing ground and money very quickly. "He" (speaking out loud), wishing God would tell him what to do...seems to me God is telling him.

Just makes me wonder when almost of all the websites were founded in Utah, and why they feel we are the target of choice? 

Had to do some editing, I was to go back and proffered this morning, but accidently hit post instead. Hope it make better sense now. 

 

Edited by Bill "Papa" Lee

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1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

.........................................................................  .

Just makes me wonder when almost of all the websites were founded in Utah, and why they feel we are the target of choice? 

I doubt that they were all founded in Utah.  Walter Martin's Melodyland School of Theology was founded next to Disneyland in Southern Caliirfornia, where Rob Bowman was one of his assistants (Rob saw first-hand how evil Martin was, and finally broke with him).

The vast network of radio stations founded by Chuck Smith's evangelical Calvary Chapel was founded in Costa Mesa, California, and ended up wtih around 1000 churches and a very sophisticated network of radio stations which broadcast his version of the Bible, and took occasional potshots at Mormons.  Any targeting that such organizations do toward the Mormons is due to our remarkable strength and ability to teach a competing Gospel.

Edited by Robert F. Smith

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8 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I doubt that they were all founded in Utah.  Walter Martin's Melodyland School of Theology was founded next to Disneyland in Southern Caliirfornia, where Rob Bowman was one of his assistants (Rob saw first-hand how evil Martin was, and finally broke with him).

The vast network of radio stations founded by Chuck Smith's evangelical Calvary Chapel was founded in Costa Mesa, California, and ended up wtih around 1000 churches and a very sophisticated network of radio stations which broadcast his version of the Bible, and took occasional potshots at Mormons.  Any targeting that such organizations do toward the Mormons is due to our remarkable strength and ability to teach a competing Gospel.

I'm interested to hear what Rob felt was evil about Martin, do you have more details?

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32 minutes ago, boblloyd91 said:

I'm interested to hear what Rob felt was evil about Martin, do you have more details?

He mentioned that on this board in past years, and what he said is backed up by Presbyterian minister Richard J. Mouw (President of Fuller Theological Seminary), who also saw Martin's evil firsthand (see https://vimeo.com/22184895 at 14:54).  The main point is that Martin lied a lot.

 

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11 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I doubt that they were all founded in Utah.  Walter Martin's Melodyland School of Theology was founded next to Disneyland in Southern Caliirfornia, where Rob Bowman was one of his assistants (Rob saw first-hand how evil Martin was, and finally broke with him).

The vast network of radio stations founded by Chuck Smith's evangelical Calvary Chapel was founded in Costa Mesa, California, and ended up wtih around 1000 churches and a very sophisticated network of radio stations which broadcast his version of the Bible, and took occasional potshots at Mormons.  Any targeting that such organizations do toward the Mormons is due to our remarkable strength and ability to teach a competing Gospel.

I was referring to the last two, but good info, we are still the biggest target of choice. The number of threads and post may be increased by the fact that LDS members are my likely to respond. 

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3 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I was referring to the last two, but good info, we are still the biggest target of choice. The number of threads and post may be increased by the fact that LDS members are my likely to respond. 

Even though I think Sectarian Anti Mormons will be around indefinitely, I think they will never regain the influence or prominence they once had in the eighties and nineties. Due to the fact that Atheism and secularism is more prevalent.

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So do we now expect Hanegraff to be nicer and smarter? Or still the same fundamentalist, anti-Mormon jerk?

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1 hour ago, Hamilton Porter said:

So do we now expect Hanegraff to be nicer and smarter? Or still the same fundamentalist, anti-Mormon jerk?

Definitely not pro LDS but maybe not as much of a jerk. Of course I could be wrong but Catholics/Orthodox tend to be kinder than fundies in my experience 

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7 hours ago, Hamilton Porter said:

So do we now expect Hanegraff to be nicer and smarter? Or still the same fundamentalist, anti-Mormon jerk?

Hard to say now that he has lost his microphone. 

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On 6/9/2017 at 1:12 AM, Robert F. Smith said:

I doubt that they were all founded in Utah.  Walter Martin's Melodyland School of Theology was founded next to Disneyland in Southern Caliirfornia, where Rob Bowman was one of his assistants (Rob saw first-hand how evil Martin was, and finally broke with him).

The vast network of radio stations founded by Chuck Smith's evangelical Calvary Chapel was founded in Costa Mesa, California, and ended up wtih around 1000 churches and a very sophisticated network of radio stations which broadcast his version of the Bible, and took occasional potshots at Mormons.  Any targeting that such organizations do toward the Mormons is due to our remarkable strength and ability to teach a competing Gospel.

Hi there Bob. It was so nice to see you at the FairMormon conference last week.

Just some factual clarifications and then I'll be out.

I was never on staff at Melodyland School of Theology or associated with it in any way. I worked at the Christian Research Institute, where Martin was the president, from April 1984 until January 1992. CRI was based in the Lake Forest area and later in Irvine, California (it much later relocated to North Carolina). Martin passed away in 1989, while I was in Philadelphia going to school full time and working remotely for CRI part time from 1988 to 1990. I then returned to full-time work at CRI from mid-1990 to January 1992 under Martin's successor Hank Hanegraaff. I was terminated without warning and without cause; they called it a "layoff" but it was a layoff of just one person and was demonstrably just a way of getting rid of me.

I disagreed with Martin on a number of issues and I didn't care for his style, but that is about as much as I would say about him personally. For the record, Martin had absolutely no influence on my views about or my approach to the subject of Mormonism. On the other hand, I have made known publicly my opinion that Hanegraaff was a plagiarist (actually, that judgment goes beyond opinion) and a self-serving opportunist who used CRI to enrich himself.

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1 hour ago, Rob Bowman said:

.........................................................

Just some factual clarifications and then I'll be out.

I was never on staff at Melodyland School of Theology or associated with it in any way. I worked at the Christian Research Institute, where Martin was the president, from April 1984 until January 1992. CRI was based in the Lake Forest area and later in Irvine, California (it much later relocated to North Carolina). Martin passed away in 1989, while I was in Philadelphia going to school full time and working remotely for CRI part time from 1988 to 1990. I then returned to full-time work at CRI from mid-1990 to January 1992 under Martin's successor Hank Hanegraaff. I was terminated without warning and without cause; they called it a "layoff" but it was a layoff of just one person and was demonstrably just a way of getting rid of me.

...........................................................  

Thanks for the clarifications, and sorry I got the correlations wrong:  I based my assumption on your previous comments on this board that you had worked for Martin, etc.  I didn't even realize that he had been at CRI.  Richard Mouw's personal encounter with Martin many years earlier also left a permanent impression of utter, callous dishonesty.  I didn't realize that you had known Hank Hanegraaf.  Being summarily dismissed was probably a blessing in disguise for you.

I never take offense at assaults on the Mormon faith, unless they are reckless and mean-spirited.  A sincere and reasonable critique should always be taken amicably and with aplomb.  Perhaps we should also be grateful that anyone takes the time to notice us, and values us enough to make positive suggestions.  The worst thing would be to be ignored.  :pirate:

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On 6/8/2017 at 8:37 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Just makes me wonder when almost of all the websites were founded in Utah, and why they feel we are the target of choice? 

 

 

I think it is pretty clear that Mormons are "targeted" because of missionary work.  Other religions don't seem to like D&C 1:30 "And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—"

Surely, when one makes this bold claim, others will take notice and maybe be upset by it?

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29 minutes ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

I think it is pretty clear that Mormons are "targeted" because of missionary work.  Other religions don't seem to like D&C 1:30 "And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—"

Surely, when one makes this bold claim, others will take notice and maybe be upset by it?

That and the co$t of losing people to other faiths. 

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2 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

I think it is pretty clear that Mormons are "targeted" because of missionary work.  Other religions don't seem to like D&C 1:30 "And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—"

Surely, when one makes this bold claim, others will take notice and maybe be upset by it?

True enough, Pete, although this is a claim made by many religions -- which may therefore find themselves in competition with each other.  One only hopes that, in the midst of religious warfare, the respective parties will at least be honest and above-board.

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11 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

I think it is pretty clear that Mormons are "targeted" because of missionary work.  Other religions don't seem to like D&C 1:30 "And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—"

Surely, when one makes this bold claim, others will take notice and maybe be upset by it?

I think very very few non-LDS will have read D&C 1:30.  As a Catholic, I like D&C 1:30 (thanks to you). A religion that doesn't even believe it is "the only true...etc." should give up its real estate space. This is how I became interested and why I remain interested in your church. I don't visit blogs and websites of religions that think they are optional. I like football enough that in the fall and winter on Sunday I will stay home unless I am obliged to "obey them that have the rule over" me. (Hebrews 13:17). That said, on the internet at least, it seems like a lot of those who identify as LDS would rather be Protestant, and get away from the one true church stuff. You keep up your insistence on D&C 1:30, Pete. Those who are offended aren't others who claim to be one and true. Its liberals, indifferent about doctrine, denying eternal moral principles, who will be upset about a church that claims to be one and true. In this day, people who believe in one true church are closer to each other than many with whom they might actually attend the same church! Because you adhere to D&C 1:30, I think you are more Catholic than a lot of self identified Catholics, even if it were a pope who didn't think it was important to be a member of the one true church.

Quote

True enough, Pete, although this is a claim made by many religions -- which may therefore find themselves in competition with each other.  One only hopes that, in the midst of religious warfare, the respective parties will at least be honest and above-board.

When I was looking for the one true church, I eliminated those who would not make the claim. I thought the the field narrowed considerably. I don't know of a single Protestant church that says the visible officers in its hierarchy have legitimate authority over the entire world of those who have been baptized or claim to be Christian. I could count only five or six churches that would be compatible with D&C 1:30. Yours was among them. May your leaders continue to make the claim.

Edited by 3DOP

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37 minutes ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

Mormons definitely make the claim of being the one and only.

Do they? From the anonymity of an unidentifiable keyboard, I am afraid there are liberal Mormons who are dying to be Protestants. They just want for truth to be unable to be pinned down. True for you, false for me. True today, wrong tomorrow. That kind of crap. Anybody who would go on a mission for less than one and true...will be sterile, he or she isn't going to have children who do the same. Kids are great. They keep us somewhat honest. They won't die to themselves for something worthless. I'd rather be an atheist than a relativist religionist myself! Except for liberals, who would recommend their kids to sacrifice two missionary years for temporary "truth"?

But just as I think there are "Catholics" (liberals) who would deny being the one and true, and some in high places, I think there are LDS, I don't know in what positions of authority, (I only know the internet), who would be more at home with liberal Catholicism than with a one and true Mormonism. My belief for a few years, is that I am a better Mormon for believing that the Catholic Church is one and true, than Mormons who think that truth and morals change with the times.

3DOP

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