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bsjkki

Youth Conference Packing list

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1 minute ago, Jeanne said:

:PThen why???  It is nonsensical...a girl with knees is supposed to have knees and what color shirt I have on at work has nothing to do with quality of my work. 

I can't speak for your work of course.  But as far as the church goes, one reason is the teachings on treating your body a specific way and the other reason is probably because when they've given general guidelines people ignore them so they've gotten more focused.

I also think that modesty took a hard swing to the right on the pendulum and that a lot of modest requirements (like shirts over swimsuits) will start to fade as it swings back more towards the middle.  That will be a good thing.

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12 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

:PThen why???  It is nonsensical...a girl with knees is supposed to have knees and what color shirt I have on at work has nothing to do with quality of my work. 

Uniforms give a professional look, makes it easier for the customer to know who to ask, who to trust, who is supposed to help.

Dress standards for kids are often implemented to help avoid bullying or social discomfort.  Like many good things, it can be taken to extremes.

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I think the problem is rooted in the very subjective nature of the standards in the strength of youth pamphlet. There is a lot of room for interpretation...there is no way to detail out exactly one leaders interpretation without seeming nitpicky. 

I think another thread is discussing some of the issues relating to scripture interpretations so this is not a 'new' or uncommon problem. 

1 hour ago, california boy said:

A more general guideline of reminding both sexes to dress modestly seems more appropriate in trying to teach good values that the kids actually embrace rather than be dictated to.  It is just a different approach on how to guide youth while growing up.

I think someone once said something like...teach them correct principals and let them govern themselves. 😉

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I am curious...how many of those who are suggesting teach correct principles have been adivisors (not just parents) working at some of these events?

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It's not just the girls.  In my stake, the dress code for next week's youth conference included the following for the boys:

 

Quote

 

Young Men Dress Code for Youth Conference (_____, CA Stake 2017)

It is our desire for youth conference to be an inspirational and edifying experience for all who attend.  With that in mind, we remind all youth that "ye are the Temple of God", and how we dress shows how we respect ourselves and others.  The guidelines in For the Strength of Youth (p. 6-9) will be our standard.  Due to problems in the past and questions we've received, these additional guidelines are being shared this year:

- No tank tops.  Shirts must cover the shoulders.  T-shirts are allowed for the outdoor activities on Saturday.  A shirt with a collar is required for the dance.

- Jeans in good condition may be worn to the outdoor activities and the dance.

- Shorts for the outdoor activity should extend no higher than 3" above the kneecap.  

- No crop tops.

- No mesh tops.

- Parachute pants are allowed, but they should not billow during vigorous activity.

- Gloves must have fingers and be fringe-less and without fur.

- Chaps are allowed for the Saturday outdoor activity, but pants must be worn underneath.  If desired, Chaps worn to the dance should be in good condition and made of genuine leather.  If a hat or vest is also worn, they should all be a neutral color that naturally occurs in nature.  Fringe on the chaps should be of usual length and style.  

- Baseball caps with tasteful logos or western-style hats may be worn during the outdoor activities.  Caps may not have patent leather, fur, feathers or any other unusual construction.

- We will be swimming at the lake on Saturday.  Speedos will not be allowed.  All swim trunks must be loose enough to pass the banana test.

Thank you, ______ Stake Young Men's Presidency

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

 

I think someone once said something like...teach them correct principals and let them govern themselves. 😉

No, the only thing teenagers need are correct principles.  They have plenty of time after they turn 18 to govern themselves.

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28 minutes ago, Calm said:

I am curious...how many of those who are suggesting teach correct principles have been adivisors (not just parents) working at some of these events?

Ward Camp director and Young Women's counselor. The kids were fabulous and I would much rather love them than police their attire. So much of it was never a problem unless a leader made it a problem.

The girls would grumble about things they viewed as being unfair. Sometimes I could see the challenge to authority in their dress-almost a dare to proove that I would care more about their skirt length than them.

I've heard a few young women in carpools start the gossip about, "did you see how short (insert name) skirt was?" They would start using their adherence to the dress code to diminish another. I would shut that down quickly but I didn't like the thought process that the dress code was more important than loving your neighbor.

Edited by bsjkki

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3 minutes ago, cinepro said:

It's not just the girls.  In my stake, the dress code for next week's youth conference included the following for the boys:

 

 

 

 

 

What's with the gloves--that is strange.

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2 hours ago, Calm said:

Uniforms give a professional look, makes it easier for the customer to know who to ask, who to trust, who is supposed to help.

Dress standards for kids are often implemented to help avoid bullying or social discomfort.  Like many good things, it can be taken to extremes.

I agree on uniforms...it is just my area..in the bakery..just hot..and we are covered with heavy aprons anyway..look cute in the hair net though.:P

 

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43 minutes ago, cinepro said:

It's not just the girls.  In my stake, the dress code for next week's youth conference included the following for the boys:

 

 

Wow...I take back the double standard.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, bluebell said:

I can't speak for your work of course.  But as far as the church goes, one reason is the teachings on treating your body a specific way and the other reason is probably because when they've given general guidelines people ignore them so they've gotten more focused.

I also think that modesty took a hard swing to the right on the pendulum and that a lot of modest requirements (like shirts over swimsuits) will start to fade as it swings back more towards the middle.  That will be a good thing.

I understand what you are saying.  I just hope parents don't have to spend some moolah to get it right.  A happy medium would be a good thing too..I agree.

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54 minutes ago, SteveO said:

No, the only thing teenagers need are correct principles.  They have plenty of time after they turn 18 to govern themselves.

...and they do. As a parent, I'm much less controlling for my younger set. In 5 years, I will let you know how things turn out.

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1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

...and they do. As a parent, I'm much less controlling for my younger set. In 5 years, I will let you know how things turn out.

This works in many different ways and different people.  Because my mother used to have to work most Sundays..she didn't make it to church often..so when she left work, it was kind of hard for her to get back into things.  Dad would get on her case a lot.  One day, she told me that "you know..I could really get involved and active in the church again if your dad would just leave me alone".;)

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6 hours ago, cinepro said:

It's not just the girls.  In my stake, the dress code for next week's youth conference included the following for the boys:

 

 

 

 

 

chaps and gloves? how Gauche:wacko:

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11 hours ago, Calm said:

I am curious...how many of those who are suggesting teach correct principles have been adivisors (not just parents) working at some of these events?

I was young's mens president and teachers quorum advisor for years.  Virtually all of my callings were working with the youth except when I was in a bishopric and on the high counsel.  Granted, I never worked with the young women except in cross over type activities.  But I certainly was involved in my share of EFY's.

What is the point of doing this micromanagement type approach.  Isn't the whole purpose to teach the kids the principles so that they can govern themselves???  If leaders never put their trust in the youth, they will never learn to be trusted.  

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11 hours ago, cinepro said:

It's not just the girls.  In my stake, the dress code for next week's youth conference included the following for the boys:

Quote

 

Young Men Dress Code for Youth Conference (_____, CA Stake 2017)

It is our desire for youth conference to be an inspirational and edifying experience for all who attend.  With that in mind, we remind all youth that "ye are the Temple of God", and how we dress shows how we respect ourselves and others.  The guidelines in For the Strength of Youth (p. 6-9) will be our standard.  Due to problems in the past and questions we've received, these additional guidelines are being shared this year:

- No tank tops.  Shirts must cover the shoulders.  T-shirts are allowed for the outdoor activities on Saturday.  A shirt with a collar is required for the dance.

- Jeans in good condition may be worn to the outdoor activities and the dance.

- Shorts for the outdoor activity should extend no higher than 3" above the kneecap.  

- No crop tops.

- No mesh tops.

- Parachute pants are allowed, but they should not billow during vigorous activity.

- Gloves must have fingers and be fringe-less and without fur.

- Chaps are allowed for the Saturday outdoor activity, but pants must be worn underneath.  If desired, Chaps worn to the dance should be in good condition and made of genuine leather.  If a hat or vest is also worn, they should all be a neutral color that naturally occurs in nature.  Fringe on the chaps should be of usual length and style.  

- Baseball caps with tasteful logos or western-style hats may be worn during the outdoor activities.  Caps may not have patent leather, fur, feathers or any other unusual construction.

- We will be swimming at the lake on Saturday.  Speedos will not be allowed.  All swim trunks must be loose enough to pass the banana test.

Thank you, ______ Stake Young Men's Presidency

 

This is how ridiculious these kinds of things can get.  If I was a kid, I would push back against such stupid rules or refuse to go.  What adult has the right to tell a kid whether his chaps are made out of real leather?  Or what type of hat he can wear.  Or what they have to wear to THEIR dance.  So what if every single kid is dancing in a tee shirt.  It may not be the attire that an adult would wear, but what difference does that make? 

Guide lines should be about modesty.  That's it.  Being the fashion police with youth is way out of line.  Leaders are just creating resentment and not providing any real benefit for those guidelines except exercising their authority over them.  

I never could understand why girls knees were so enticing that they had to be covered at all times. I personally find guys knees way more sexy.  You got to admit, Mormon culture is just plain weird.

 

 

 

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So, what to do with those who don't govern themselves?

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50 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

So, what to do with those who don't govern themselves?

You mean like wear faux leather chaps?  Obviously bar them from any future youth activities and tell them to never show up again without real leather.  

 

Seriously, if someone comes dressed overtly immodest, explain to them why dressing immodestly is a problem.  Then give them a long tee shirt and a hug.  That should solve most of the issues.  ALL the rest of the other restrictions are amazingly unimportant.

What the heck is a banana test anyway?  Is this a new Mormon thing?  Do they stuff a banana down you pants and see if you can see it?  Unbelievable.

Edited by california boy

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19 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Oh...I do not miss these days..the double standard and micro managing makes you think that parents/teens would not have some common sense...;)

IF, that is a big "if", parents had common sense very, very few groups would have to instruct parents and children what is required at events.  Some of the stuff I have seen children wear astounds; it is as if they did not have parents at all.

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33 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

IF, that is a big "if", parents had common sense very, very few groups would have to instruct parents and children what is required at events.  Some of the stuff I have seen children wear astounds; it is as if they did not have parents at all.

Tell us the worst thing you have ever seen at a  youth conference that ai big tee shirt could not have fixed.

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3 hours ago, california boy said:

You mean like wear faux leather chaps?  Obviously bar them from any future youth activities and tell them to never show up again without real leather.  

 

Seriously, if someone comes dressed overtly immodest, explain to them why dressing immodestly is a problem.  Then give them a long tee shirt and a hug.  That should solve most of the issues.  ALL the rest of the other restrictions are amazingly unimportant.

What the heck is a banana test anyway?  Is this a new Mormon thing?  Do they stuff a banana down you pants and see if you can see it?  Unbelievable.

Cinepro is playing a little joke :)

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7 hours ago, california boy said:

I was young's mens president and teachers quorum advisor for years.  Virtually all of my callings were working with the youth except when I was in a bishopric and on the high counsel.  Granted, I never worked with the young women except in cross over type activities.  But I certainly was involved in my share of EFY's.

What is the point of doing this micromanagement type approach.  Isn't the whole purpose to teach the kids the principles so that they can govern themselves???  If leaders never put their trust in the youth, they will never learn to be trusted.  

Thanks for the info.

Just because kids might be micromanaged in one area, it isn't required to micromanage them in all areas.  I have never been suggesting that.  The kids were the ones who picked and planned their trips, their fundraising, made the lists of what was needed in our ward.  Supervision by both the youth themselves and the leaders was stepped up in the case of three or four of the kids who were not yet able to be fully responsible for themselves.

I think when the leaders are dealing on a ward level where they know the kids, know the strengths, know what they can and cannot trust (and there are kids who you will not be able to trust as much as the others even if you have given them as much opportunity as possible tailored to their needs), I think kids should be given expansive opportunities to lead, to develop etc., but based on the kids' level, not some idealistic hope that once taught, of course they will automatically govern themselves no matter what as I have seen a few leaders behave.

However, on a stake or higher level, where you are not as familiar with the kids, if at all, given there will undoubtedly be some wards who have kids that cannot be trusted, most through no fault of their own, but because of disabilities or lack of experiences at home, I think it is wiser to allow for a greater range of behaviour and go for some micromanaging, preferably after talking with wards youth advisers and finding out if they have youth who need such and what level supervision works for them.  

These kids are the ones in my experience that are generally speaking the least likely to want to go to youth activities because of the unfamiliarity of the event, the ones most likely to be embarrassed by the Tshirt or other treatment that singles them out for not being aware or disciplined enough to be properly prepared..  They don't trust the stake or regional leaders because they don't know them and so they either fear something bad will happen or they don't care as much about what they are being told.  Giving them very clear, precise instructions can sometimes get through to them or their parents if the parents are source of the problem.

Maybe I have just been in wards that had high numbers of kids needing unusual supervision and saw how hurt emotionally some of them could be by negative attention that a hug and more or less telling them it was for their own good would only make it all feel like a betrayal because of the abuse they got at home or the kids who sailed through life pretty much paying attention to the shiny distractions (so much fun, so loving, so dangerous If safety was an issue) because of less than stellar behaviour during pregnancy by their mother (there were a lot of foster and adopted kids in my wards).

Edited by Calm

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3 hours ago, california boy said:

Tell us the worst thing you have ever seen at a  youth conference that ai big tee shirt could not have fixed.

The humiliation that comes from having to wear a big tshirt.

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1 hour ago, Gray said:

Cinepro is playing a little joke :)

What gave it away, the chaps or having to have them to be worn with pants?  I think some are taking the subject just a bit too seriously if they read that without a laugh.

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As a high councilman over the youth programs, part of my job was to be the dress code enforcer at activities. Shocking I know,  but some kids actually gamed the system. For example, feigning ignorance of the stated standards, crying because they would have to go home to change, getting in and then changing clothes, etc.

Some did not govern themselves after having been taught the principles. It's human nature. I don't see using that quote as applicable in any and all circumstances where certain behaviors and standards are required.

 

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