poptart Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Curious who's seen this, I look at Jesus and wonder if suicides remain vagrants in death. https://www.lds.org/church/news/elder-ballard-offers-comfort-and-counsel-to-those-affected-by-suicide?lang=eng Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Not sure what you mean, "[R]emain vagrants in death." Perhaps you could expand on that a bit in order to facilitate the discussion. Link to comment
Storm Rider Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Hello poptart, I don't think I understand what you mean by remaining a vagrant in death. Could you elaborate. I skimmed the article and did not see that word or missed. Link to comment
Storm Rider Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Well now, great minds think alike. Your comment came up when I posted. 1 Link to comment
poptart Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 My understanding is suicides aren't necessarily damned, was looking at that picture and for whatever reason I imagined Jesus talking to someone who killed themselves in life. Noticed the backpack and just wondered if he was a vagrant for eternity Link to comment
Storm Rider Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 No, that is just a picture and has nothing to do with church teachings or policies. The bottom line is that we don't know what happens in the eternities for someone who commits suicide. What we know is that the atoning love of the Savior and that he will be their judge as he will be theirs. I trust that for whatever the reason Jesus will heal their broken heart and embrace them. Link to comment
poptart Posted May 16, 2017 Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 42 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: No, that is just a picture and has nothing to do with church teachings or policies. The bottom line is that we don't know what happens in the eternities for someone who commits suicide. What we know is that the atoning love of the Savior and that he will be their judge as he will be theirs. I trust that for whatever the reason Jesus will heal their broken heart and embrace them. That's decent, so even societies throw a ways have a place. Don't know why but for whatever reason that's one of my favorite pieces of LDS art, I just imagine someone having recently died or lost and alone and Jesus doing what most won't, listening and caring. Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 https://www.lds.org/ensign/1987/10/suicide-some-things-we-know-and-some-we-do-not?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/topics/suicide?lang=eng Link to comment
Storm Rider Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 17 hours ago, poptart said: That's decent, so even societies throw a ways have a place. Don't know why but for whatever reason that's one of my favorite pieces of LDS art, I just imagine someone having recently died or lost and alone and Jesus doing what most won't, listening and caring. Our son has that piece of art; we gave it to him and he keeps it hanging in his office. Jesus is our Master and Savior; he does not play favorites when it comes to his love for each of us. 1 Link to comment
poptart Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 On 5/16/2017 at 3:28 PM, Storm Rider said: Our son has that piece of art; we gave it to him and he keeps it hanging in his office. Jesus is our Master and Savior; he does not play favorites when it comes to his love for each of us. Shame everyone else does Link to comment
Storm Rider Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 On 5/18/2017 at 9:34 PM, poptart said: Shame everyone else does Poptart, we cannot control what others do; in fact, what they do is their business. our focus is on what we do and what we think. That is the great lesson of the Savior - if they should slap you then turn the other cheek - their actions should have no bearing on our own actions. I was talking with my sister today. She was disappointed in how another sister was interacting with one of her 20+ year old daughter and she was focusing her disappointment on the daughter, our niece - it is a complex situation. What we concluded is that it does not matter what either one of them does. Our responsibility as disciples of Jesus Christ was to love unconditionally. That is the ideal and our goal; to learn to love as the Savior loved. It does not mean we accept their actions, but that we do not allow their actions to affect how we treat them. If we are going to judge others then first judge them for being human beings....and then stop. We are all just human. We are fragile, we err, we choose poorly, and we harm others as well as ourselves. This kind of judging is the flip side of focusing just on our own actions. It is all we can control. 1 Link to comment
poptart Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 That's what I'm working on, a major chapter in my life just closed, trying to move on. Link to comment
The Nehor Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 On 5/15/2017 at 6:15 PM, poptart said: My understanding is suicides aren't necessarily damned, was looking at that picture and for whatever reason I imagined Jesus talking to someone who killed themselves in life. Noticed the backpack and just wondered if he was a vagrant for eternity The only vagrants for eternity are those who become Perdition. Everyone else will be happy forever. Some will be happier then others but all will enjoy eternity. Link to comment
poptart Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 9 hours ago, The Nehor said: The only vagrants for eternity are those who become Perdition. Everyone else will be happy forever. Some will be happier then others but all will enjoy eternity. How do you become perdition? Link to comment
Stargazer Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 hour ago, poptart said: How do you become perdition? It's not easy. Reading D&C 76:30-35 provides some clues. From the Doctrine And Covenants And Church History Seminary Teacher Manual, chapter 79: "Sometimes students are concerned that loved ones who become less active in the gospel are sons of perdition. Explain that sons of perdition are different from Church members who had a testimony of the truth at one point but have since become inactive in the gospel. Sons of perdition commit the unpardonable sin of denying the Holy Ghost." And, quoting President Spencer W. Kimball: “The sin against the Holy Ghost requires such knowledge that it is manifestly impossible for the rank and file to commit such a sin” (The Miracle of Forgiveness [1969], 123). Link to comment
The Nehor Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 hour ago, poptart said: How do you become perdition? If you have to ask you are in no danger. 1 Link to comment
Stargazer Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 12 hours ago, The Nehor said: If you have to ask you are in no danger. It's kind of like Alzheimers. If you're worried you might have Alzheimers, you don't have Alzheimers. If you're told you might have Alzheimers and you deny it despite credible evidence that you do, you probably may have Alzheimers. My source for this is my wife, whose late mother suffered from this condition. Link to comment
The Nehor Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 41 minutes ago, Stargazer said: It's kind of like Alzheimers. If you're worried you might have Alzheimers, you don't have Alzheimers. If you're told you might have Alzheimers and you deny it despite credible evidence that you do, you probably may have Alzheimers. My source for this is my wife, whose late mother suffered from this condition. Link to comment
Stargazer Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: Well, that's it then! Link to comment
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