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bluebell

The Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood

27 posts in this topic

I was going over the Visiting Teaching lesson for this month, which is on the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood.  I was pleasantly surprised to see that it wasn't like the old YW and primary lessons of old, taught to YW and girls from the 'for information only' perspective.

But there was one part that I want to hear some other thoughts on.  The lesson quotes sister Burton-

"Sister Linda K. Burton, Relief Society General President, has issued this call, “I invite you to memorize the oath and covenant of the priesthood, which can be found in Doctrine and Covenants 84:33–44. By doing so, I promise you that the Holy Ghost will expand your understanding of the priesthood and inspire and uplift you in wonderful ways.”

Quote

 

D&C 84: 33-44-

33 For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifyingtheir calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewingof their bodies.

34 They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.

35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receiveme, saith the Lord;

36 For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me;

37 And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;

38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.

39 And this is according to the oath and covenant which belongeth to the priesthood.

40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.

41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

42 And wo unto all those who come not unto this priesthood which ye have received, which I now confirm upon you who are present this day, by mine own voice out of the heavens; and even I have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.

43 And I now give unto you a commandment to beware concerning yourselves, to give diligent heed to the words of eternal life.

44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.

 

Having read through the scripture reference, I'm not sure how best to apply it to me as a woman.  I'm not doubting Sis. Burton's words so much as trying to understand how best to apply them (beyond memorization).  How can memorizing the scriptures above help a woman understand the priesthood better?

To read the entire VT message in full go here.

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Posted (edited)

50 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I was going over the Visiting Teaching lesson for this month, which is on the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood.  I was pleasantly surprised to see that it wasn't like the old YW and primary lessons of old, taught to YW and girls from the 'for information only' perspective.

But there was one part that I want to hear some other thoughts on.  The lesson quotes sister Burton-

"Sister Linda K. Burton, Relief Society General President, has issued this call, “I invite you to memorize the oath and covenant of the priesthood, which can be found in Doctrine and Covenants 84:33–44. By doing so, I promise you that the Holy Ghost will expand your understanding of the priesthood and inspire and uplift you in wonderful ways.”

Having read through the scripture reference, I'm not sure how best to apply it to me as a woman.  I'm not doubting Sis. Burton's words so much as trying to understand how best to apply them (beyond memorization).  How can memorizing the scriptures above help a woman understand the priesthood better?

To read the entire VT message in full go here.

D&C 84: 33-44-

33 For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifying their calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies.

34 They become the sons and daughters of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.

35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receive me, saith the Lord;

36 For they that receiveth my servants receiveth me;

37 And they that receiveth me receiveth my Father;

38 And they that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto them.

39 And this is according to the oath and covenant which belongeth to the priesthood.

40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which they cannot break, neither can it be moved.

41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after they hath received it, and altogether turneth there from, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

42 And wo unto all those who come not unto this priesthood which ye have received, which I now confirm upon you who are present this day, by mine own voice out of the heavens; and even I have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.

43 And I now give unto you a commandment to beware concerning yourselves, to give diligent heed to the words of eternal life.

44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.

Fixed it! :)

Edited by Tacenda
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Posted (edited)

Hey Bluebell.  I didn't read the lesson...just the D&C scriptual reference.  I know I am not understanding all this as most of you do; especially the women here who have been through the Temple..but I can't see where this would be understandable or relateable to young women until she understands what all her Mother In Heaven has.

Edited by Jeanne
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14 minutes ago, Duncan said:

This GC talk by the late Elder Carlos E. Asay, I hope will answer your question

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1985/10/the-oath-and-covenant-of-the-priesthood?lang=eng

 

I think for a lady all of those covenants and oaths are priesthood free, I.E. you don't need it to get the blessings

When do you believe a woman makes this covenant and oath?  For men, it's when they are ordained, right? 

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Just now, bluebell said:

When do you believe a woman makes this covenant and oath?  For men, it's when they are ordained, right? 

I'll tell you for 5$, just kidding! um, I think those blessings come as a woman is righteous but for a guy it's when he's ordained and is righteous to warrant the blessings

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

D&C 84: 33-44-

33 For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifying their calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies.

34 They become the sons and daughters of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.

35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receive me, saith the Lord;

36 For they that receiveth my servants receiveth me;

37 And they that receiveth me receiveth my Father;

38 And they that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto them.

39 And this is according to the oath and covenant which belongeth to the priesthood.

40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which they cannot break, neither can it be moved.

41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after they hath received it, and altogether turneth there from, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

42 And wo unto all those who come not unto this priesthood which ye have received, which I now confirm upon you who are present this day, by mine own voice out of the heavens; and even I have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.

43 And I now give unto you a commandment to beware concerning yourselves, to give diligent heed to the words of eternal life.

44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.

Fixed it! :)

Good fix. Most of the time when a prophet refers to one of the sexes what he is saying applies equally well to the other, and this is a good time to point that fact out.

Edited by Ahab
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16 minutes ago, bluebell said:

When do you believe a woman makes this covenant and oath?  For men, it's when they are ordained, right? 

The key idea is the "receiving" of the priesthood, whether or not one is ordained to an office of the priesthood.

It is about recognizing those who have received the priesthood, and receiving them as those who have it.

The oath and covenant are from our Father and we either "receive" it, as that, or we don't receive it as that.

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13 minutes ago, Ahab said:

The key idea is the "receiving" of the priesthood, whether or not one is ordained to an office of the priesthood.

It is about recognizing those who have received the priesthood, and receiving them as those who have it.

The oath and covenant are from our Father and we either "receive" it, as that, or we don't receive it as that.

Are you saying that women receive the Oath and the Covenant of the priesthood without knowing that's what's actually going on, or are you saying something else?

I'm not even sure that Sis. Burton meant that the O&C is for ordained men and member women equally and that's why we should memorize it.  I'm trying to feel this whole thing out.

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26 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I'll tell you for 5$, just kidding! um, I think those blessings come as a woman is righteous but for a guy it's when he's ordained and is righteous to warrant the blessings

I suppose they could also come as a woman is endowed in the temple.  Maybe.

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Just now, bluebell said:

I suppose they could also come as a woman is endowed in the temple.  Maybe.

could be!

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8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Are you saying that women receive the Oath and the Covenant of the priesthood without knowing that's what's actually going on, or are you saying something else?

Only if they don't know they are doing it.

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm not even sure that Sis. Burton meant that the O&C is for ordained men and member women equally and that's why we should memorize it.  I'm trying to feel this whole thing out.

I suggest that you read it again while thinking of yourself as someone who receives counsel from authorized representatives of our Lord as if they really, truly are authorized representatives of our Lord, who himself is an authorized representative of our Father.

If you receive them as that, which is what they are,  our Father had made an oath and covenant to bless you for that.

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Lovely! So glad you posted this!  It gave me a moment to reflect upon the matter, and I learned something new!!!!

The key to what I learned is here:

35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receiveme, saith the Lord;
36 For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me;
37 And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;
38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.

This "receiving" is not only to those who obtain the priesthood by obedience and ordination, but to those who receive it by receiving those who hold that priesthood.  Such as it says in verse 36.  

I have heard it said from time to time that a woman shares in her husband's priesthood, and connecting the above verses to the words of the sealing ordinance, it becomes clear that the two are connected. Exaltation thus proceeds from receiving the priesthood, in all senses of the word "receiving".  Nice!

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Just now, BlueDreams said:

All of those verses parallel the endowment ceremony. Including the initiatories that always start with these verses in exodus 40:

 

The verse finishes with this line "that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office." and then continues on to say: 

 

 

 

D&C 84: 33-44-

33 For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifyingtheir calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewingof their bodies.

34 They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.

35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receiveme, saith the Lord;

36 For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me;

37 And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;

38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.

39 And this is according to the oath and covenant which belongeth to the priesthood.

40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.

41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

42 And wo unto all those who come not unto this priesthood which ye have received, which I now confirm upon you who are present this day, by mine own voice out of the heavens; and even I have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.

43 And I now give unto you a commandment to beware concerning yourselves, to give diligent heed to the words of eternal life.

44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.

 

Without going into massive detail, to avoid temple content. The first 2 verses apply to the reception of the emblems and symbols of the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthood in the endowment. All of the the temple is about receiving all of Christ and having our bodies, spirits, and minds turned to our callings on earth and sanctified to God's purposes (which tie in 36-38). The passage into the celestial room would represent 38-39. 40 Could be tied to the receiving of our Garments (of the holy priesthood) as well as being clothed period. 41, to the gravity of our covenants made in the temple. 43-44 both about keeping the sacred nature and words received in the temple as well as obtaining all the words and revelation that God may give us in our lives.

 

So very applicable, for both men and women :) . I probably won't memorize it, but I definitely am going to read and ponder it!

 

With luv,

BD

well, my mind is blown 60 ways to sunday!:o

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2 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

All of those verses parallel the endowment ceremony. Including the initiatories that always start with these verses in exodus 40:

 

The verse finishes with this line "that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office." and then continues on to say: 

 

 

 

D&C 84: 33-44-

33 For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifyingtheir calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewingof their bodies.

34 They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.

35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receiveme, saith the Lord;

36 For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me;

37 And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;

38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.

39 And this is according to the oath and covenant which belongeth to the priesthood.

40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.

41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

42 And wo unto all those who come not unto this priesthood which ye have received, which I now confirm upon you who are present this day, by mine own voice out of the heavens; and even I have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.

43 And I now give unto you a commandment to beware concerning yourselves, to give diligent heed to the words of eternal life.

44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.

 

Without going into massive detail, to avoid temple content. The first 2 verses apply to the reception of the emblems and symbols of the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthood in the endowment. All of the the temple is about receiving all of Christ and having our bodies, spirits, and minds turned to our callings on earth and sanctified to God's purposes (which tie in 36-38). The passage into the celestial room would represent 38-39. 40 Could be tied to the receiving of our Garments (of the holy priesthood) as well as being clothed period. 41, to the gravity of our covenants made in the temple. 43-44 both about keeping the sacred nature and words received in the temple as well as obtaining all the words and revelation that God may give us in our lives.

 

So very applicable, for both men and women :) . I probably won't memorize it, but I definitely am going to read and ponder it!

 

With luv,

BD

Awesome!  Thanks BD.

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5 hours ago, bluebell said:

Having read through the scripture reference, I'm not sure how best to apply it to me as a woman.  I'm not doubting Sis. Burton's words so much as trying to understand how best to apply them (beyond memorization).  How can memorizing the scriptures above help a woman understand the priesthood better?

While I'm not sure this was the intent of the VT message, one thing to keep in mind is that much of D&C 84 applies to later developments and revelations on priesthood. We tend to apply it just to priesthood offices. While that's fine as far as it goes when you read about becoming the seed of Abraham you should quickly understand it to apply to the oaths and covenants we make in the temple that all of us make. I would add that reading these verses in light of Mosiah 15 is very helpful. Particularly ask how Jesus received the father and how we receive Jesus. What does that mean? Mosiah 15 goes through that in how Jesus is both the Father and Son and then goes on to talk about who are his seed and what they do.

Now most of this wasn't revealed yet clearly when D&C 84 was revealed. However "seed of Abraham" is explicitly tied to the temple and of course there both men and women are inducted into the priesthood order even if women aren't given the offices of the Melchezedek or Aaronic Priesthood. But as Elder Oaks recently explained in conference keys are really permissions and thus the right or permission to do something even as say Relief Society President is technically a priesthood key.

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6 hours ago, bluebell said:

I was going over the Visiting Teaching lesson for this month, which is on the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood.  I was pleasantly surprised to see that it wasn't like the old YW and primary lessons of old, taught to YW and girls from the 'for information only' perspective.

But there was one part that I want to hear some other thoughts on.  The lesson quotes sister Burton-

"Sister Linda K. Burton, Relief Society General President, has issued this call, “I invite you to memorize the oath and covenant of the priesthood, which can be found in Doctrine and Covenants 84:33–44. By doing so, I promise you that the Holy Ghost will expand your understanding of the priesthood and inspire and uplift you in wonderful ways.”

Having read through the scripture reference, I'm not sure how best to apply it to me as a woman.  I'm not doubting Sis. Burton's words so much as trying to understand how best to apply them (beyond memorization).  How can memorizing the scriptures above help a woman understand the priesthood better?

To read the entire VT message in full go here.

I think it helps us know what to expect from those who hold priesthood office; how to discern the proper exercise of authority in our behalf; how to behave when we receive any blessing, ordinance or covenant by virtue or exercise of the priesthood (including the Gift of the Holy Ghost) and when we enter the order of the priesthood (Zion) through baptism, confirmation, callings, temple endowment and sealing. The sealing can be entered into by birth and then by marriage.

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4 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Hey Bluebell.  I didn't read the lesson...just the D&C scriptual reference.  I know I am not understanding all this as most of you do; especially the women here who have been through the Temple..but I can't see where this would be understandable or relateable to young women until she understands what all her Mother In Heaven has.

A young woman needs to know what to expect from those who hold priesthood office; how to discern the proper exercise of authority in her behalf; how to behave when she receives any blessing, ordinance or covenant by virtue or exercise of the priesthood (including the Gift of the Holy Ghost) and when she enters the order of the priesthood (Zion) through baptism, confirmation, callings, being born in the covenant or otherwise sealed to parents as applicable, temple endowment and sealing.

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

When do you believe a woman makes this covenant and oath?  For men, it's when they are ordained, right? 

I think it is the same for everyone. It is as soon as they understand what it is they are doing when they partake of the sacrament (and what the sacrament is and by what power it is effective), for that is the  basis of the common heart and mind of Zion; and of course again with any and every ordinance they receive thereafter (baptism, confirmation, ordination, temple, etc.).

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10 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

All of those verses parallel the endowment ceremony. Including the initiatories that always start with these verses in exodus 40:

 

The verse finishes with this line "that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office." and then continues on to say: 

 

 

 

D&C 84: 33-44-

33 For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifyingtheir calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewingof their bodies.

34 They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.

35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receiveme, saith the Lord;

36 For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me;

37 And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;

38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.

39 And this is according to the oath and covenant which belongeth to the priesthood.

40 Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.

41 But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

42 And wo unto all those who come not unto this priesthood which ye have received, which I now confirm upon you who are present this day, by mine own voice out of the heavens; and even I have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.

43 And I now give unto you a commandment to beware concerning yourselves, to give diligent heed to the words of eternal life.

44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.

 

Without going into massive detail, to avoid temple content. The first 2 verses apply to the reception of the emblems and symbols of the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthood in the endowment. All of the the temple is about receiving all of Christ and having our bodies, spirits, and minds turned to our callings on earth and sanctified to God's purposes (which tie in 36-38). The passage into the celestial room would represent 38-39. 40 Could be tied to the receiving of our Garments (of the holy priesthood) as well as being clothed period. 41, to the gravity of our covenants made in the temple. 43-44 both about keeping the sacred nature and words received in the temple as well as obtaining all the words and revelation that God may give us in our lives.

 

So very applicable, for both men and women :) . I probably won't memorize it, but I definitely am going to read and ponder it!

 

With luv,

BD

Your posts are always so thoughtful and insightful!  Always worth reading.

Thanks for this post!

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15 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

While I'm not sure this was the intent of the VT message, one thing to keep in mind is that much of D&C 84 applies to later developments and revelations on priesthood. We tend to apply it just to priesthood offices. While that's fine as far as it goes when you read about becoming the seed of Abraham you should quickly understand it to apply to the oaths and covenants we make in the temple that all of us make. I would add that reading these verses in light of Mosiah 15 is very helpful. Particularly ask how Jesus received the father and how we receive Jesus. What does that mean? Mosiah 15 goes through that in how Jesus is both the Father and Son and then goes on to talk about who are his seed and what they do.

Now most of this wasn't revealed yet clearly when D&C 84 was revealed. However "seed of Abraham" is explicitly tied to the temple and of course there both men and women are inducted into the priesthood order even if women aren't given the offices of the Melchezedek or Aaronic Priesthood. But as Elder Oaks recently explained in conference keys are really permissions and thus the right or permission to do something even as say Relief Society President is technically a priesthood key.

You don't think the point of the VT message is to help women understand the Oath and the Covenant better and how it applies to reader of the message?  

What do you believe the point is, if not that?  (Sincere question, i'm not trying to be snarky).

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Obtaining a fullness of the priesthood involves two parties entering into the priesthood order of marriage, man and women. There are further ordinances after that of course. I'm not even close to having a fullness of the priesthood despite being an endowed elder.

By entering into the priesthood order of marriage and participating in other ordinances relating a woman's potential for being a priestess, I would say the covenants associated with it, and the oath of the Father, apply here.

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Posted (edited)

55 minutes ago, bluebell said:

You don't think the point of the VT message is to help women understand the Oath and the Covenant better and how it applies to reader of the message?  

What do you believe the point is, if not that?  (Sincere question, i'm not trying to be snarky).

Well I just said that as I'd not read the VT message yet so I didn't want to comment on it. I think just understanding it is fine of course although they could potentially want the broader points that matter theologically understood too. D&C 84 gets focused on a lot for men but not for women as much I suspect. 

Since I wrote my comments I've read the VT message and it does appear that she saw the connection similar to how I do. 

"The blessings and promises of the oath and covenant of the priesthood pertain to both men and women. Sister Sheri L. Dew, former counselor in the Relief Society General Presidency, said, “The fulness of the priesthood contained in the highest ordinances of the house of the Lord can be received only by a man and woman together.”" So I was surprised how strongly it made the temple connection. That's a good thing of course. I'm glad we get lessons like this.

 

Edited by clarkgoble
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22 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Well I just said that as I'd not read the VT message yet so I didn't want to comment on it. I think just understanding it is fine of course although they could potentially want the broader points that matter theologically understood too. D&C 84 gets focused on a lot for men but not for women as much I suspect. 

Since I wrote my comments I've read the VT message and it does appear that she saw the connection similar to how I do. 

"The blessings and promises of the oath and covenant of the priesthood pertain to both men and women. Sister Sheri L. Dew, former counselor in the Relief Society General Presidency, said, “The fulness of the priesthood contained in the highest ordinances of the house of the Lord can be received only by a man and woman together.”" So I was surprised how strongly it made the temple connection. That's a good thing of course. I'm glad we get lessons like this.

 

I was surprised by JS's statement quoted at the end of the lesson-

Joseph Smith’s instructions to the Relief Society were intended to prepare women to “come in possession of the privileges & blessings & gifts of the priesthood.”

I had never considered RS to be meant to prepare women for the privileges and blessings of the priesthood (through the temple).

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5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I was surprised by JS's statement quoted at the end of the lesson-

Joseph Smith’s instructions to the Relief Society were intended to prepare women to “come in possession of the privileges & blessings & gifts of the priesthood.”

I had never considered RS to be meant to prepare women for the privileges and blessings of the priesthood (through the temple).

Yes I think most historians think it was set up to be a kind of parallel to Elders Quorums. Originally it was far more independent than now. Part of the reason that changed was Brigham Young's distrust due to how Emma Smith had used it (which is why it took so long to set back up in Utah). Part of it was the transition to modern Mormonism after the ending of most communal experiments and polygamy. Finally the need to standardize budgets and practical matters of keeping the Relief Society President and Bishop on the same page led to more unified funding and PEC meetings.

An other interesting thing that doesn't get commented on as much is its connection to Adoptive Masonry. This was a French addition and variation to standard Royal Arch Masonry. Women weren't allowed to be Masons but this form had an associated lodge for women with their own ceremonies and the like. It's not 100% clear Joseph knew about this although there are speculations how he may have encountered it. Interestingly some temple parallels bear more resemblance to this type of Masonry rather than the Royal Arch form that gets most of the discussion.

 

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