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bsjkki

Mormon Bishop convicted of rape

78 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I hope this story doesn't spread outside of Utah but it has some elements that may get it picked up. There have been some news events depicting judges behaving badly when sentencing convicted rapists. This seems to be another one of those stories. The judge stated, "The court has no doubt that Mr. Vallejo is an extraordinary, good man. But great men," the judge said Wednesday before taking a long pause, "sometimes do bad things." Huh? He was convicted of "nearly a dozen" sex crimes. From the Trib.

"Kirby told The Salt Lake Tribune on Wednesday that she was surprised by the judge's emotion — but said she felt like his mind was more on sending a man with a large family to prison and less on the victims.

"I didn't feel it was insincere," she said. "I felt there was a little bit of contradiction in him getting emotional about [sentencing] Keith. If he really, really cared about me or about the fact that this person was a criminal, he wouldn't have that kind of sympathy. It was shocking to me for that reason."

The church reported the allegations and immediately released the man from his calling as Bishop. 

"A family member reported the abuse to police in January 2015, according to court records. A lawyer with the firm that represents The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also reported the allegations during that time.

Vallejo was released from his bishop duties as soon as local leaders learned of the allegations in 2015, according to a spokesman with the LDS Church."  http://www.sltrib.com/news/5170759-155/once-free-despite-his-sex-assault 

At least he will be going to prison. http://abcnews.go.com/US/18-year-charged-rape-years-probation-jail/story?id=41589866 http://www.ktvq.com/story/33394919/montana-judge-defends-decision-to-sentence-child-rapist-to-probation http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/05/justice/texas-rape-sentence/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/05/justice/texas-rape-sentence/index.htm http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/10/opinions/stanford-rape-case-cevallos/index.html http://kdvr.com/2016/08/10/former-cu-student-convicted-of-rape-not-sentenced-to-prison/

Why do these judges have so much compassion for convicted rapists?

 

Edited by bsjkki
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"But great men," the judge said Wednesday before taking a long pause, "sometimes do bad things."

If he had been accurate and said "sometimes does bad things over and over" perhaps he would have realized how wrong that sounds in a rape trial.

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10 hours ago, juliann said:

I'll be very disappointed if the locals don't go after this judge as has happened with the rape culture judges in other states. 

Me too! 

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Posted (edited)

This is a strange case. The judge had obvious sympathy for the accused. http://www.sltrib.com/home/5111197-155/no-one-is-really-saying-hes?page=2

He allowed him to be free until the sentencing hearing after he was convicted of 11 felonies. From the Trib.

"Kirby said the judge made other rulings throughout the trial that made her question whether he believed their accounts. Notably, she said, Vallejo was allowed to testify at length about how he enjoyed his work as a bishop for the LDS Church. But the victims, she said, were not allowed to talk about seeing Vallejo watching pornography."

This is an educated judge. ( BYU graduate) What chance does a girl have sitting in a Bishops office in confession? The power differential is immense and many won't even admit to themselves they were raped. (Blue Dreams mentioned this in another thread and I know this to be true from experiences within my circle.) As a society and in the church, we have a long way to go.

Edited by bsjkki
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1 hour ago, Buckeye said:

 

So with respect to this judge (or juries that I've seen), I would guess that the judge himself has been a father and possibly a bishop - or at least worked with a lot of bishops - and so he feels empathy that someone who must have been a good person to have these roles would have fallen so far. I don't have any problem with that sentiment. However - BIG HOWEVER - it cannot outweigh sympathy for the victims, and I imagine the judge may have some blinders there from lack of personal experience.

If I allow for empathy on that basis....I have to allow for another basis.....he experiences the same or similar compulsions as the rapist. I think it is more likely a huge lack of awareness and male bias that is not, unfortunately, atypical. He was identifying with this creepy smirky man instead of his powerless victims. 

What always astounds me in this day and age, is how blithering sexists can be so unaware. It is one thing to think like that but quite another to announce it to the world while shedding tears. 

They really need to get this guy off the bench. 

 

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21 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

This is a strange case. The judge had obvious sympathy for the accused. http://www.sltrib.com/home/5111197-155/no-one-is-really-saying-hes?page=2

He allowed him to be free until the sentencing hearing after he was convicted of 11 felonies. From the Trib.

"Kirby said the judge made other rulings throughout the trial that made her question whether he believed their accounts. Notably, she said, Vallejo was allowed to testify at length about how he enjoyed his work as a bishop for the LDS Church. But the victims, she said, were not allowed to talk about seeing Vallejo watching pornography."

This is an educated judge. ( BYU graduate) What chance does a girl have sitting in a Bishops office in confession? The power differential is immense and many won't even admit to themselves they were raped. (Blue Dreams mentioned this in another thread and I know this to be true from experiences within my circle.) As a society and in the church, we have a long way to go.

There is a strange compulsion to try to hush these kinds of incidents up or minimize them. Not just in specific organizations, but across multiple organizations, including governments, churches, schools, clubs, and even in families. Often the victim is treated harshly for speaking up by people who should be protecting the victim. What is it that leads people to act in this way? 

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12 hours ago, bsjkki said:

I hope this story doesn't spread outside of Utah but it has some elements that may get it picked up. There have been some news events depicting judges behaving badly when sentencing convicted rapists. This seems to be another one of those stories. The judge stated, "The court has no doubt that Mr. Vallejo is an extraordinary, good man. But great men," the judge said Wednesday before taking a long pause, "sometimes do bad things." Huh? He was convicted of "nearly a dozen" sex crimes. From the Trib.

"Kirby told The Salt Lake Tribune on Wednesday that she was surprised by the judge's emotion — but said she felt like his mind was more on sending a man with a large family to prison and less on the victims.

"I didn't feel it was insincere," she said. "I felt there was a little bit of contradiction in him getting emotional about [sentencing] Keith. If he really, really cared about me or about the fact that this person was a criminal, he wouldn't have that kind of sympathy. It was shocking to me for that reason."

The church reported the allegations and immediately released the man from his calling as Bishop. 

"A family member reported the abuse to police in January 2015, according to court records. A lawyer with the firm that represents The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also reported the allegations during that time.

Vallejo was released from his bishop duties as soon as local leaders learned of the allegations in 2015, according to a spokesman with the LDS Church."  http://www.sltrib.com/news/5170759-155/once-free-despite-his-sex-assault 

At least he will be going to prison. http://abcnews.go.com/US/18-year-charged-rape-years-probation-jail/story?id=41589866 http://www.ktvq.com/story/33394919/montana-judge-defends-decision-to-sentence-child-rapist-to-probation http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/05/justice/texas-rape-sentence/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/05/justice/texas-rape-sentence/index.htm http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/10/opinions/stanford-rape-case-cevallos/index.html http://kdvr.com/2016/08/10/former-cu-student-convicted-of-rape-not-sentenced-to-prison/

Why do these judges have so much compassion for convicted rapists?

Judges are humans given huge discretion is making judgements according to law. No one would want to judged by a simple machine. "Put in crime; Spit out sentence". IOW Because justice can not rob mercy, and mercy can not rob justice.

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2 hours ago, Gray said:

There is a strange compulsion to try to hush these kinds of incidents up or minimize them. Not just in specific organizations, but across multiple organizations, including governments, churches, schools, clubs, and even in families. Often the victim is treated harshly for speaking up by people who should be protecting the victim. What is it that leads people to act in this way? 

And that is why this shouldn't be allowed to turn into a "Utah" thing.  The other two national public outings of a judge were far worse, they were letting the rapists off or giving minimal sentences. I recall one local one where the most prominent radio station took him on and got him voted out. 

I think the idea that women caused it is still out there. Or the idea that they didn't prevent it or fight it. For those with that mindset, I doubt they see it as an assault, they see it as sex, which is no big deal, women do it all the time. Children will get over it so no need to ruin a man over it.  The latter seems to be in this judge's head. 

It is just mind boggling. Has this judge never turned on a TV or read a newspaper?

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14 hours ago, juliann said:

I'll be very disappointed if the locals don't go after this judge as has happened with the rape culture judges in other states. 

One can only hope, as the facts point out this was not one act, but many! Nothing good about this man, other than he was good at hiding the evil inside him. 

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6 hours ago, Gray said:

Great men don't rape children. 

Most bad men or sorry men don't rape children, or anyone else, which begs the question; where is this guy a great man? 

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12 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Most bad men or sorry men don't rape children, or anyone else, which begs the question; where is this guy a great man? 

That's the question - he's obviously a million miles away from "great"

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14 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Why do these judges have so much compassion for convicted rapists?

Well, I've had at least a couple rapists in my office (not child rapists yet). And to be honest I kinda get it. They're not these intrinsically horrible human beings. They're ridiculously normal in most ways. I've genuinely liked at least 2 of them. And they've raped people. Some are pretty degenerate through and through, but honestly a lot of them have a good amount of redeemable traits. Because of that and because they can look really good on paper it can be difficult to believe that they've committed heinous crimes or that they may again. I think, socially, we have these pictures in our heads of what a rapist, child molester, drug dealer, etc look like. So when it doesn't match up....well....it's hard to see the real picture. Plus for male judges particularly it may be more difficult to jump into the victim's shoes and understand the depth of emotional scars rape can leave people. A lot of rapes don't leave a lot of obvious scars and physical injuries.   

I don't think that rape should still go unpunished.... though I wish our penal system in general was more focused on actually rehabilitating these people than simply punishing them. I can just get why its hard to fathom and how easy it is to have compassion. 

 

With luv,

BD

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50 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

Well, I've had at least a couple rapists in my office (not child rapists yet). And to be honest I kinda get it. They're not these intrinsically horrible human beings. They're ridiculously normal in most ways. I've genuinely liked at least 2 of them. And they've raped people. Some are pretty degenerate through and through, but honestly a lot of them have a good amount of redeemable traits. Because of that and because they can look really good on paper it can be difficult to believe that they've committed heinous crimes or that they may again. I think, socially, we have these pictures in our heads of what a rapist, child molester, drug dealer, etc look like. So when it doesn't match up....well....it's hard to see the real picture. Plus for male judges particularly it may be more difficult to jump into the victim's shoes and understand the depth of emotional scars rape can leave people. A lot of rapes don't leave a lot of obvious scars and physical injuries.   

I don't think that rape should still go unpunished.... though I wish our penal system in general was more focused on actually rehabilitating these people than simply punishing them. I can just get why its hard to fathom and how easy it is to have compassion. 

 

With luv,

BD

It is common behavior--no one wants to ruin the young man's life, or hurt the football team, or hurt their family by telling everyone grandpa's a pervert, or believe such reprehensible behavior happens with people who don't look like monsters. The same concern is often not shown to the victims whose lives have been altered and will never be the same. Sad.

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The judge did give him a five to life sentence. Utah has a history of being more punitive than most states, tougher on murderers and sex offenders.

Check this out:

"Camille Anthony, a member of the prison committee and pro-tem member of the pardons board, said she won't set a release date unless a sex offender has had a shot at treatment. That's because numerous national studies as well as evaluations in Utah show that treatment reduces recidivism of sex offenders."

And before we become too judgmental of this judge, maybe we should all go back and read Chapter 7 of the Book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price.

Glenn

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Maybe there was a spelling error. They meant to say he was a ' grate ' man, as in that is what he will be standing behind for quite some time.

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Because I have some sympathy for the sinner. That doesn't mean I have no sympathy for the  sinned upon.

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On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 9:00 AM, juliann said:

I think it is more likely a huge lack of awareness and male bias that is not, unfortunately, atypical. He was identifying with this creepy smirky man instead of his powerless victims. 

Typical male bias?  For Pete’s sake, give it a rest.  

Do you have any evidence that the "typical male" agrees with this judge’s grossly lenient sentence or with his reasoning? 

For what its worth, I believe that the fact that this guy was supposedly a “good family man” (at least, when he wasn’t committing rape) and a bishop makes his crimes much more reprehensible, hence disserving of a much harsher sentence than he would otherwise have received.  

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On 4/13/2017 at 0:34 PM, juliann said:

And that is why this shouldn't be allowed to turn into a "Utah" thing.  The other two national public outings of a judge were far worse, they were letting the rapists off or giving minimal sentences. I recall one local one where the most prominent radio station took him on and got him voted out. 

I think the idea that women caused it is still out there. Or the idea that they didn't prevent it or fight it. For those with that mindset, I doubt they see it as an assault, they see it as sex, which is no big deal, women do it all the time. Children will get over it so no need to ruin a man over it.  The latter seems to be in this judge's head. 

It is just mind boggling. Has this judge never turned on a TV or read a newspaper?

Just heard the other day about an LDS father that abused his daughters. They were this perfect family in looks and other ways, the ward looked up to them. It was in my ward growing up, my brother mentioned the daughter is now a heroin addict. So this is what can happen to women who were abused. It destroys their lives. 

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8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

This article more that a year old. It would be interesting to see what has been said since then, especially with things like this:

"According to reports from 2014, Utah ranked the 8th highest of any state in the country in number of reported cases of abuse, and Utah was the top state for rate of sexual abuse.

"There have been several professionals that have come out and said that under-reporting is a huge issue," McNamara added. "So, as the survivors come forward, those number could increase even more."

 

 

 

What reports are we talking about? If the headline is true then obviously something should be done, but in the mean time I am not going to jump to conclusions about unspecified "reports".

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Posted (edited)

24 minutes ago, Rain said:

This article more that a year old. It would be interesting to see what has been said since then, especially with things like this:

"According to reports from 2014, Utah ranked the 8th highest of any state in the country in number of reported cases of abuse, and Utah was the top state for rate of sexual abuse.

"There have been several professionals that have come out and said that under-reporting is a huge issue," McNamara added. "So, as the survivors come forward, those number could increase even more."

 

 

 

What reports are we talking about? If the headline is true then obviously something should be done, but in the mean time I am not going to jump to conclusions about unspecified "reports".

This may be a better since there are some graphs. http://talktoasurvivor.org/child-sexual-abuse-in-utah-2x-and-3x-higher-rates-than-u-s/

Two of my best friends in Jr. High were both sexually abused as young women, by their step-fathers. My sister-in-law was sexually abused by her own father. :( I just can't imagine. One of my friends later on became an alcoholic and drug user, she died young of a heart attack. I remember when her younger sister complained about her step-father's abuse. Nothing happened to him, except that he was put in as a security office at a mall and not a policeman any longer, that was his punishment. I learned later that my friend was abused, she never told me.

Edited by Tacenda
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