The best way to live

[Ahab]

We (LDS) teach that our Father's way of life is the best kind of life that is possible, don't we. We call it eternal life, and exaltation, with its complementary and equally perfect life for women, and with it including the ability to have children forever and ever. Mothers and Fathers in love and raising their children with love while helping them to also have the possibility of the best life that is possible for our kind of being.

Occasionally we run into some of our brothers and sisters who don't think that is the best life that is possible, though. So we patiently and lovingly try to teach them and explain to them that it is, even if they don't think so. At least for a while before letting them think however they want to think, in their errors.

It's not like we can force anyone to believe us or what is right. Right?

Any thoughts or tips that might work best to explain why the best life possible is actually the best life possible, though? 

I think sometimes we just don't explain it very well, or that some people just don't understand it correctly, because in the final analysis it really is the best kind of life that is possible for any of us.

 

[Duncan]

I think discipleship is asked for by everyone but how that plays out in our lives is different for everyone. God asked Pres. Monson to have the experiences he's had and that's different from the experiences that Prunella Wigglesworth from Guelph, Ontario but he wants discipleship from everyone

[Tacenda]

If you can prove to me somehow through quotes or scripture that I can have babies and be able to raise them, yeah, I might agree that it would be a beautiful life for some. But others are just happy basking in the light of Christ and being with family and friends and not having children or more children. Maybe just being with the family they had on earth. I am happy not going through another childbirth if I'm being honest. Because as it stands from what I've learned is that we just have spirit babies and then they would have to go down to an earth like existance to be tested. And some may never return according to their actions, they may end up in outer darkness and that doesn't seem like a good existance, especially if it means I'm going to have billions of them and I'd have to watch with helplessness when horrible things happen to them.

[Duncan]

I think the Church used to say this is the way you have to live but I don't notice it so much anymore, i.e. you need to get married young, have kids, thenyour  education, work a job, serve in the church all at the same time 

[readstoomuch]

I think it first comes down to having the mighty change of heart that it talks about in the Book of Mormon.  The second is that our salvation comes within a family and community.  The time and energy that we give to that family and community is returned to us manyfold.  The process of doing both gives us the path that will make us the most happy and likely to return to our heavenly father.  That`s about as simple as I can describe it.  Each of us will feel pain and suffer, but with Him we can emerge on the other side of it made whole.  

[The Nehor]

12 hours ago, Ahab said:

We (LDS) teach that our Father's way of life is the best kind of life that is possible, don't we. We call it eternal life, and exaltation, with its complementary and equally perfect life for women, and with it including the ability to have children forever and ever. Mothers and Fathers in love and raising their children with love while helping them to also have the possibility of the best life that is possible for our kind of being.

Occasionally we run into some of our brothers and sisters who don't think that is the best life that is possible, though. So we patiently and lovingly try to teach them and explain to them that it is, even if they don't think so. At least for a while before letting them think however they want to think, in their errors.

It's not like we can force anyone to believe us or what is right. Right?

Any thoughts or tips that might work best to explain why the best life possible is actually the best life possible, though? 

I think sometimes we just don't explain it very well, or that some people just don't understand it correctly, because in the final analysis it really is the best kind of life that is possible for any of us.

 

Unless you are their priesthood leader or a family member or friend acting under revelation and love you should probably leave them alone and not try to tell others how they should live their life.

Also, if God genuinely believed that married life with children in mortality is that vital for every single one of his children he would not have allowed infertility amongst his children or made some ugly or crippled (physically, mentally, and/or emotionally) so they would have little to no chance of finding a spouse. I am none of those and if God wanted that life for me he would have made me better at finding a spouse, less picky, or put someone in my path by now. He has not. Either it is not as vital as you say or God hates me for some reason and is denying me that experience. Want to know which one I am betting on?

 

Edited March 28, 2017 by The Nehor

[Bobbieaware]

7 hours ago, Tacenda said:

If you can prove to me somehow through quotes or scripture that I can have babies and be able to raise them, yeah, I might agree that it would be a beautiful life for some. But others are just happy basking in the light of Christ and being with family and friends and not having children or more children. Maybe just being with the family they had on earth. I am happy not going through another childbirth if I'm being honest. Because as it stands from what I've learned is that we just have spirit babies and then they would have to go down to an earth like existance to be tested. And some may never return according to their actions, they may end up in outer darkness and that doesn't seem like a good existance, especially if it means I'm going to have billions of them and I'd have to watch with helplessness when horrible things happen to them.

Sounds like you've become converted to the sitting around and doing nothing (other than basking in God's light) view of heaven. As for me, the idea of sitting around forever and doing nothing is my idea of damnation.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[Meadowchik]

Well, you know that's not all...what else makes it the best??

[snowflake]

8 hours ago, Tacenda said:

If you can prove to me somehow through quotes or scripture that I can have babies and be able to raise them, yeah, I might agree that it would be a beautiful life for some. But others are just happy basking in the light of Christ and being with family and friends and not having children or more children. Maybe just being with the family they had on earth. I am happy not going through another childbirth if I'm being honest. Because as it stands from what I've learned is that we just have spirit babies and then they would have to go down to an earth like existance to be tested. And some may never return according to their actions, they may end up in outer darkness and that doesn't seem like a good existance, especially if it means I'm going to have billions of them and I'd have to watch with helplessness when horrible things happen to them.

Eternally pregnant doesn't sound like paradise to you?!?! Possibly sharing your eternal husband with another spiritual wife is the beautiful life.....maybe you just don't understand!?!? LOL

[snowflake]

9 hours ago, Ahab said:

We (LDS) teach that our Father's way of life is the best kind of life that is possible, don't we. We call it eternal life, and exaltation, with its complementary and equally perfect life for women, and with it including the ability to have children forever and ever. Mothers and Fathers in love and raising their children with love while helping them to also have the possibility of the best life that is possible for our kind of being.

Occasionally we run into some of our brothers and sisters who don't think that is the best life that is possible, though. So we patiently and lovingly try to teach them and explain to them that it is, even if they don't think so. At least for a while before letting them think however they want to think, in their errors.

It's not like we can force anyone to believe us or what is right. Right?

Any thoughts or tips that might work best to explain why the best life possible is actually the best life possible, though? 

I think sometimes we just don't explain it very well, or that some people just don't understand it correctly, because in the final analysis it really is the best kind of life that is possible for any of us.

 

Ahab,

The LDS philosophy is pure fantasy and not grounded in biblical truth, so when non-LDS and EV's hear the Mormon world view it certainly doesn't sound like the best life to me. I could sum up the entire LDS world view in one sentence it would be "Heavenly father wants us to be happy", and that is simply not biblical. 

[Tacenda]

8 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

Sounds like you've become converted to the sitting around and doing nothing (other than basking in God's light) view of heaven. As for me, the idea of sitting around forever and doing nothing is my idea of damnation.

Doesn't sound like I'd be raising those spirits though.

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, snowflake said:

Eternally pregnant doesn't sound like paradise to you?!?! Possibly sharing your eternal husband with another spiritual wife is the beautiful life.....maybe you just don't understand!?!? LOL

Someone doesn't understand here.  Perhaps it's you.  Family is the only real joy, the only paradise of God.  Being in and nurturing and growing a family is the work of God for a reason.  "God is love" makes more sense when you understand WHY he loves us.  No love, no joy.

I'll take an eternity of ever increasing familial love over all the other "joys" in existence.  And IF that includes polygamous marriage I am positive that those participating will see it as an increased opportunity to love, not a cruel joke.

[Gray]

What you're talking about is extremely subjective. Either it appeals to someone or it doesn't. You really can't make an argument for or against it based on anything but personal preference. 

 

ETA: "you're" not "your"!

Edited March 28, 2017 by Gray

[snowflake]

11 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Someone doesn't understand here.  Perhaps it's you.  Family is the only real joy, the only paradise of God.  Being in and nurturing and growing a family is the work of God for a reason.  "God is love" makes more sense when you understand WHY he loves us.  No love, no joy.

I'll take an eternity of ever increasing familial love over all the other "joys" in existence.  And IF that includes polygamous marriage I am positive that those participating will see it as an increased opportunity to love, not a cruel joke.

I disagree, being in and nurturing and growing a family is wonderful, but the bible would not argue for this as being the primary purpose of man. You are arguing for your family above God, he comes first!

I would say biblically speaking that "Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever". (Westminster catechism)

Psalm 73:

²³ Nevertheless I am continually with thee: thou hast holden me by my right hand.

²⁴ Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.

²⁵ Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee.

²⁶ My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.

 

[california boy]

Sounds like all you straight people who love kids and don't mind being pregnant for eternity have a wonderful life ahead of you. I wish you all the best.  And you get to look down upon all the rest of us from you thrones of gold and weep for those that just don't want your vision of eternity.   How could that possibly be hard to convince anyone how wonderful that will be.  What's not to like.  

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, Gray said:

What your talking about is extremely subjective. Either it appeals to someone or it doesn't. You really can't make an argument for or against it based on anything but personal preference. 

While I agree with you, what appeals can change over time, including through attempting to align oneself to God.

[Gray]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

While I agree with you, what appeals can change over time, including through attempting to align oneself to God.

I agree that it can change, but usually through life experience and/or just getting older. You can't make an argument to a 14 year old that lentil soup is delicious. Either they like it or they don't, but that 14 year old may get a taste for it in her 40s. 

I don't know that you can intentionally change your feelings by trying to "align" yourself with God. You can tell yourself that you should feel a certain way because God said so, but in the back of your head you'll know you really don't feel it. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by Gray

[pogi]

2 hours ago, snowflake said:

Ahab,

The LDS philosophy is pure fantasy and not grounded in biblical truth, so when non-LDS and EV's hear the Mormon world view it certainly doesn't sound like the best life to me. I could sum up the entire LDS world view in one sentence it would be "Heavenly father wants us to be happy", and that is simply not biblical. 

Why would you worship a God that doesn't want you to be happy?  What world view and life could be better than one filled with happiness?  The very purpose of the writings of the apostles are that our "joy may be full."  The purpose of Christ's teachings are that our "joy may be full."

1 John 1:4 - And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

John 15:11 - These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

John 16:24 - Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

Psalms 37:4 Delight yourself also in the LORD: and he shall give you the desires of your heart [happiness].

Proverbs 16:20 He that handles a matter wisely shall find good: and whoever trusts in the LORD, happy is he.

Ecclesiastes 3:13 And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labor, it is the gift of God.

Philippians 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.

Psalm 126:2 - Our mouths were filled with laughter, our tongues with songs of joy. Then it was said among the nations, "The Lord has done great things for them."

Romans 15:13 - 13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 1:8 - Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory

Psalm 16:11 - Thou wilt shew me the path of life: In thy presence is fullness of joy; At thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Isaiah 51:11 - Therefore the redeemed of the Lord shall return, And come with singing unto Zion; And everlasting joy shall be upon their head: They shall obtain gladness and joy; And sorrow and mourning shall flee away.

Nehemiah 8:10 - Then he said unto them, Go your way, eat the fat, and drink the sweet, and send portions unto them for whom nothing is prepared: for this day is holy unto our Lord: neither be ye sorry; for the joy of the Lord is your strength.

Proverbs 3:13 - Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, And the man that getteth understanding

Proverbs 14:21 - He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: But he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.

Proverbs 16:20 - He that handleth a matter wisely shall find good: And whoso trusteth in the Lord, happy is he.

Proverbs 29:18 - Where there is no vision, the people perish: But he that keepeth the law, happy is he.

John 13:17 -  If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

James 5:11 - Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

 

Edited March 28, 2017 by pogi

[pogi]

51 minutes ago, snowflake said:

You are arguing for your family above God, he comes first!

You are right, God does come first...he is family after all.

Edited March 28, 2017 by pogi

[snowflake]

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

Why would you worship a God that doesn't want you to be happy?  Are you sure it is the Bible that you are reading?  The very purpose of the writings of the apostles are that our "joy may be full."  The purpose of Christ's teachings are that our "joy may be full."

1 John 1:4 - And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

John 15:11 - These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

John 16:24 - Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

Psalms 37:4 Delight yourself also in the LORD: and he shall give you the desires of your heart [happiness].

Proverbs 16:20 He that handles a matter wisely shall find good: and whoever trusts in the LORD, happy is he.

Ecclesiastes 3:13 And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labor, it is the gift of God.

Philippians 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.

Psalm 126:2 - Our mouths were filled with laughter, our tongues with songs of joy. Then it was said among the nations, "The Lord has done great things for them."

Romans 15:13 - 13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 1:8 - Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory

Psalm 16:11 - Thou wilt shew me the path of life: In thy presence is fullness of joy; At thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Isaiah 51:11 - Therefore the redeemed of the Lord shall return, And come with singing unto Zion; And everlasting joy shall be upon their head: They shall obtain gladness and joy; And sorrow and mourning shall flee away.

Nehemiah 8:10 - Then he said unto them, Go your way, eat the fat, and drink the sweet, and send portions unto them for whom nothing is prepared: for this day is holy unto our Lord: neither be ye sorry; for the joy of the Lord is your strength.

Proverbs 3:13 - Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, And the man that getteth understanding

Proverbs 14:21 - He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: But he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.

Proverbs 16:20 - He that handleth a matter wisely shall find good: And whoso trusteth in the Lord, happy is he.

Proverbs 29:18 - Where there is no vision, the people perish: But he that keepeth the law, happy is he.

John 13:17 -  If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.

James 5:11 - Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

 

You are totally missing my point, Christ's teachings are to point us to him, He is the mediator, He is the way the truth and the life. He is the way to happiness "rejoice in the Lord". Are you rejoicing in him or his teachings? Glorifying Him and worshiping him forever is the purpose of man.

Jesus didn't come down so I could be happy is my point. That was not his purpose. He came down as a sacrifice for me, for us all, that we can again come into a relationship with God.   I can become happy by worshipping and loving Him. Do you see the difference?

 

 

[Bobbieaware]

2 hours ago, snowflake said:

Eternally pregnant doesn't sound like paradise to you?!?! Possibly sharing your eternal husband with another spiritual wife is the beautiful life.....maybe you just don't understand!?!? LOL

What in your opinion could be more meaningful in the eternities than being the fathers and mothers of children destined for eternal glory -- sitting around forever and basically doing nothing but playing harps and singing? I would like you to really think about this question. What, according to your belief, will make life in heaven rewarding, interesting and meaningful? Why do you mock parenthood when it is God's idea, and Adam and Eve would have remained a married couple forever if not for the fall. Do you ever stop to think critically? Or do you mock before you think?

Edited March 28, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[Ahab]

9 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

Well, you know that's not all...what else makes it the best??

Please just share your ideas rather than asking me to offer more input.

But I'll share a few other things I can think of:

As a builder, I'm looking forward to building homes in heaven and teaching my and my wife's children how to build them, too.  From the ground up. Even sometimes creating the planets to build them on. And decorating them and adorning them in many ways, as well. With nice gardens and water features and nice house furniture, etc.  Not everyone involved would need to be exalted to be able to help me with that, though. It's just another thing that for me that would make that kind of life the best life possible, especially the part about teaching my children how to do that and having them help me.

Plus there is the part about how neither me nor my wife will have any health problems anymore, with incorruptible bodies, but again that wouldn't require exaltation or living the same lifestyle as our Father.

Please share any other thoughts you may have.

[pogi]

16 minutes ago, snowflake said:

You are totally missing my point, Christ's teachings are to point us to him, He is the mediator, He is the way the truth and the life. He is the way to happiness "rejoice in the Lord". Are you rejoicing in him or his teachings? Glorifying Him and worshiping him forever is the purpose of man.

Jesus didn't come down so I could be happy is my point. That was not his purpose. He came down as a sacrifice for me, for us all, that we can again come into a relationship with God.   I can become happy by worshipping and loving Him. Do you see the difference?

The underlined parts are exactly what the LDS claim!  What is your deal?  I guess I am confused.  You said that it is not Biblical that God wants us to be happy, and now you are saying that Christ is the way to happiness?  Which is it?

A relationship with God and happiness are inextricably linked, but it is ultimately happiness that makes the relationship worth while for both God and man. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by pogi

[The Nehor]

Our conceptions of heaven are often grotesque to others. Once I had a dream that I woke up crying from that I believe showed me a bit of heaven. Describing what happened in it would make people stare and wonder "How could you think that is heaven?" It is better to focus on being made whole through Christ and that every longing and deficiency in your soul, even the ones you do not understand, will be completely satiated and fulfilled.

Edited March 28, 2017 by The Nehor

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, Gray said:

What you're talking about is extremely subjective. Either it appeals to someone or it doesn't. You really can't make an argument for or against it based on anything but personal preference. 

 

ETA: "you're" not "your"!

Our Father refers to exaltation as the greatest gift he can offer to any of us, referring to the kind of life he lives, himself. Yes it is a subjective statement, even when coming from him, but I take it that he understands all of the other options.