Jump to content
bluebell

The Church puts out a video about a family who accepts their gay son

Recommended Posts

I thought this was pretty cool, and also interesting because it shows that the church is standing behind the idea that families should not shun their gay children (or their children who leave the faith).

Mormon church releases video...

Is this a softening of the church's earlier position, or just a clarification?

Share this post


Link to post

I'd say more clarification of the "love the sinner, hate the sin" philosophy mingled with the "if you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all" approach.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

While I'm happy that the church has released this video...I have to admit that my neck is still hurting from the violent head snap it has created when I juxtapose this video release against their November 2015 policy change attacking legally married same sex persons and a current article in this months Ensign calling these relationships counterfeit.

It seem that the church so conflicted it keeps taking two steps forward then three steps back.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if it were the church that was fully embracing the gay children of church members, providing them a loving safe environment instead of the church merely releasing a video of an active LDS family doing so. Like I said two steps forward three steps back...

PS: Church membership is still a toxic environment for gay members...no heterosexual member would ever accept a similar situation...and there is no reason why a member of the LGTQ should either.

Edited by Johnnie Cake

Share this post


Link to post
39 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I thought this was pretty cool, and also interesting because it shows that the church is standing behind the idea that families should not shun their gay children (or their children who leave the faith).

Mormon church releases video...

Is this a softening of the church's earlier position, or just a clarification?

 

I'd say the messages are mixed:

 

"The devil has been called “the great deceiver.” He attempts to counterfeit every true principle the Lord presents.

Remember, counterfeits are not the same as opposites. The opposite of white is black, but a counterfeit for white might be o -white or gray. Counterfeits bear a resem- blance to the real thing in order to deceive unsuspecting people. They are a twisted version of something good, and just like counterfeit money, they are worthless. Let me illustrate.

One of Satan’s counterfeits for faith is superstition. His counterfeit for love is lust. He counterfeits the priesthood by introducing priestcraft, and he imitates God’s miracles by means of sorcery.

Marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God, but same-sex marriage is only a counterfeit. It brings neither posterity nor exaltation. Although his imitations deceive many people, they are not the real thing. They cannot bring lasting happiness.

God warned us about counterfeits in the Doctrine and Covenants. He said, “That which doth not edify is not of God, and is darkness” (D&C 50:23)."

From "The War Goes On" by Elder Larry R. Lawrence

http://media.ldscdn.org/pdf/magazines/ensign-april-2017/2017-04-00-ensign-eng.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I thought this was pretty cool, and also interesting because it shows that the church is standing behind the idea that families should not shun their gay children (or their children who leave the faith).

Mormon church releases video...

Is this a softening of the church's earlier position, or just a clarification?

Not sure the Church ever taught that anyone should ever shun their children. If so, myself and my wife, nor any other Mormon we know we're ever listening. It never occurred to us to shun our gay child, if anything any issues that would ever seek to distance our children from us, only made us want to draw nearer. 

Share this post


Link to post

I think the article talks about SSM whereas the video talks about about being homosexual, not necessarily being married

Share this post


Link to post

I'm not sure how a position of "love the sinner, but don't justify the sin" constitutes a mixed message.  Can someone clarify?

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm not sure how a position of "love the sinner, but don't justify the sin" constitutes a mixed message.  Can someone clarify?

It's not a mixed message for those who understand that people are not what they do.

Visualize parents discovering that a child of their own has done or is still doing something both sinful and abhorrent.  The child should then see both love and hate at the same time while the parents continue to love their child but hate the sin of their child.

Sometimes the child can get confused though by thinking, erroneously, that they should be seeing nothing but love, love, love all of the time regardless of what the child is doing or has done.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I'm not sure how a position of "love the sinner, but don't justify the sin" constitutes a mixed message.  Can someone clarify?

I'm sure you're color blind to how offensive this remark is bluebell even though I know that wasn't your intent. What past generations considered sin you now engage in and what you consider sin your grandchildren will not.  Sin is fleeting and changes based on a variety of ever moving factors.  Blessed are those that have eyes to see

Edited by Johnnie Cake

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

I'm sure you're color blind to how offensive this remark is bluebell even though I know that wasn't your intent. What past generations considered sin you now engage in and what you consider sin your grandchildren will not.  Sin is fleeting and changes based on a variety of ever moving factors.  Blessed are those that have eyes to see

Sin is sin whether some people realie it or not, just as good is good and evil is evil even though everyone doesn't agree on what good and/or evil is.

It's not just about seeing. It is also about knowing what something is when you see it.

Share this post


Link to post
22 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Sin is sin whether some people realie it or not, just as good is good and evil is evil even though everyone doesn't agree on what good and/or evil is.

It's not just about seeing. It is also about knowing what something is when you see it.

Really?  What is considered sin changes from one generation to the next...so sin is not sin whether you realize it or not

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Johnnie Cake said:

Really?  What is considered sin changes from one generation to the next...so sin is not sin whether you realize it or not

my Mum was saying just today that she saw an Elvis movie when it came out and how scandalous it was and he was but now Elvis is yestarday's banana

Share this post


Link to post

Tazenda added to a thread with a link to this video (I am guessing, not in the mood for a video myself, sorry):

Some conversation follows it.

Share this post


Link to post
24 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Really?  What is considered sin changes from one generation to the next...so sin is not sin whether you realize it or not

So there is no sin ever in your view?

Share this post


Link to post
29 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Really?  What is considered sin changes from one generation to the next...so sin is not sin whether you realize it or not

No, people may think of sin differently over time, coming to believe it is no longer sin when it still really is, but sin is still sin even though some people don't think or believe that it is.

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, Calm said:

So there is no sin ever in your view?

I dont care for the word "Sin" at all...in my opinion the word carries too many religious overtones but there is right and wrong...whatever I do, that is legal, as long as it causes no one else or thing harm is fine..(I'm sure there are exceptions...is eating a tomato doing harm...it is to a tomato I guess), however if my legal or illegal actions or behavior cause others harm or injury then that would be wrong.  But what consenting adults do between themselves is not sin or wrong. ( I'm sure someone will come up with some bizarre exception but for the most part this holds true)

Share this post


Link to post
11 minutes ago, Ahab said:

No, people may think of sin differently over time, coming to believe it is no longer sin when it still really is, but sin is still sin even though some people don't think or believe that it is.

Really? So 130 years ago you could have more than 1 wife, in the eyes of the church that was not sin...today that same church would excommunicate you for sin.  Mike drop

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, bluebell said:

I thought this was pretty cool, and also interesting because it shows that the church is standing behind the idea that families should not shun their gay children (or their children who leave the faith).

Mormon church releases video...

Is this a softening of the church's earlier position, or just a clarification?

An extraordinary video for the LDS Church to release, and quite a Christian approach at that.  This is very important, even though it will never be enough for the anti-Mormon crowd.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

I dont care for the word "Sin" at all...in my opinion the word carries too many religious overtones but there is right and wrong...whatever I do, that is legal, as long as it causes no one else or thing harm is fine..(I'm sure there are exceptions...is eating a tomato doing harm...it is to a tomato I guess), however if my legal or illegal actions or behavior cause others harm or injury then that would be wrong.  But what consenting adults do between themselves is not sin or wrong. ( I'm sure someone will come up with some bizarre exception but for the most part this holds true)

Sounds good, Johnnie.  In the real world, however, such a principle readily fails.  The implied social contract is unworkable, and the devil is in the details.  Reminds me of Karl Marx's naive belief in automatic harmony.

Edited by Robert F. Smith

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

 

I'd say the messages are mixed:

 

"The devil has been called “the great deceiver.” He attempts to counterfeit every true principle the Lord presents.

Remember, counterfeits are not the same as opposites. The opposite of white is black, but a counterfeit for white might be o -white or gray. Counterfeits bear a resem- blance to the real thing in order to deceive unsuspecting people. They are a twisted version of something good, and just like counterfeit money, they are worthless. Let me illustrate.

One of Satan’s counterfeits for faith is superstition. His counterfeit for love is lust. He counterfeits the priesthood by introducing priestcraft, and he imitates God’s miracles by means of sorcery.

Marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God, but same-sex marriage is only a counterfeit. It brings neither posterity nor exaltation. Although his imitations deceive many people, they are not the real thing. They cannot bring lasting happiness.

God warned us about counterfeits in the Doctrine and Covenants. He said, “That which doth not edify is not of God, and is darkness” (D&C 50:23)."

From "The War Goes On" by Elder Larry R. Lawrence

http://media.ldscdn.org/pdf/magazines/ensign-april-2017/2017-04-00-ensign-eng.pdf

Yeah.  The reason gay couples want to marry is because of the heavy influence of Satan in their lives.  This is the message the church wants to get out.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Not sure the Church ever taught that anyone should ever shun their children. If so, myself and my wife, nor any other Mormon we know we're ever listening. It never occurred to us to shun our gay child, if anything any issues that would ever seek to distance our children from us, only made us want to draw nearer. 

Your dealing with this issue is nothing close to what I experienced.  I posted this on the other thread that talked about this video.  It is my reality.

 

I cried through the whole video.  If only that video would have been around when I came out to my family some 17 years ago, what a different life I may have had.  My family except one sister basically had nothing to do with me for 15 years.  15 years.  Never invited to a family event.  Never invited to a baptism.  Never a missionary farewell, Never a Christmas dinner.  Nothing.  On rare occasions, I would visit some of my family members to try and reconnect.  But basically it was a one sided effort.  I began to accept that I was never going to be a part of the family ever again.  I would just be that son, brother, that was lost.  

About two years ago, I was going to be at a meeting near my fathers house.  I told him I would like to see him, but I would be with my partner who was also going to the meeting.  So if that was a problem, I would understand.  But he told me to come by and bring my partner.  The connection went well.  My dad really warmed up to my partner.  They actually talked more than I did.  

That was two years ago.  It has made a big difference.  It is like he gave my siblings permission to have a relationship with me again.  For the first time, I am getting Christmas cards from family members.  They helped me with a service project I wanted to do.  And me and my partner were invited to a sibling get together.  One sister in law told me she needed to talk to me about something.  I kinda freaked out inside of what she might say.  But she surprised me and apologized how she has been treating me for the past 15 years.  Just this week, my other sister apologized and told me that so much has changed.  She is over issues, and wants her brother back in her life.  

It is not all roses.  There are still some family members that think I should not be a part of the family and they have made that quite clear.  Actually it is the sister in laws that are trying to keep me away from family activities.  I wasn't invited to a week long sibling vacation that my father is organizing.  It is painful, but hey after 17 years of this, I have developed a pretty thick skin.  

In some ways, I see a parallel with how the church has treated it's relationship with gay members and how both my family and the one in the video handled having a gay son.  17 years ago, the church wanted nothing to do with anyone who was gay.  Their only solution was to make them choose to be straight.  Then the church realized that being gay is not a choice.  So the policy was to tell gay members to never have a deep relationship with anyone all their lives.  Nothing.  No dating.  No kissing.  No marriage.  Nothing.  This video is a big deal.  For the first time, the church is realizing that gays can have a rich and fulfilling life.  Unfortunately still not within the church.  But hey.  Baby steps.  Like my sister said this week.  A lot has changed.  There is a greater understanding of things.

I am not sure I should send this video link to my family members.  I would love to have them see it.  But since I have such little contact with them, I don't want everything that I talk to them about is this whole gay issue.  There is way more to me than just being gay.  I think they are just beginning to remember that.  Any advice?  

Share this post


Link to post
37 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Really? So 130 years ago you could have more than 1 wife, in the eyes of the church that was not sin...today that same church would excommunicate you for sin.  Mike drop

Heh. Yeah it can be confusing sometimes. Maybe you should start with something simple that is always sin and always will be sin in any situation.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Sounds good, Johnnie.  In the real world, however, such a principle readily fails.  The implied social contract is unworkable, and the devil is in the details.  Reminds me of Karl Marx's naive belief in automatic harmony.

Really Robert its beneath you to resort to comparative hyperbole. But that said...what I described IS the real world...it's you and your sin that are living in a bubble

Edited by Johnnie Cake

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Really?  What is considered sin changes from one generation to the next...so sin is not sin whether you realize it or not

What is considered a sin by society does change from one generation to the next.  God however does not look at the calendar to decide what is sin and what is not sin. 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, california boy said:

Your dealing with this issue is nothing close to what I experienced.  I posted this on the other thread that talked about this video.  It is my reality.

I am not sure I should send this video link to my family members.  I would love to have them see it.  But since I have such little contact with them, I don't want everything that I talk to them about is this whole gay issue.  There is way more to me than just being gay.  I think they are just beginning to remember that.  Any advice?  

My comment was pertaining to the idea that the Church taught that gay children (or any children) we required to be shunned. I have never heard of any such teaching in 38 years. My Bishop and Stake President's only advice to me (and I sought it) was to be loving and forgiving of my child. If their advice had been different, I would have still been loving and forgiving.

As for what happened with yourself and your family, I can only say that I am so sorry. I would also add that the healing powers of the Atonement, and Balm of Gilead are available to both those who have sins, or to those who have been sinned upon. It is my prayer that one day (and I believe that it will be) you and your family will all once again find that bond for which heaven made you. Hope this helps? 

Bill, your brother in Christ Jesus. 

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×