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MormonVideoGame

Why is Faith important?

97 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

"Whether or not you believe in the paranormal may depend entirely on your brain chemistry. People with high levels of dopamine are more likely to find significance in coincidences, and pick out meaning and patterns where there are none"

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2589-paranormal-beliefs-linked-to-brain-chemistry/

The Illusion of God's Presence theory "isn’t a new idea, of course. Sigmund Freud proposed something similar, that religious belief grows from an unconscious longing for a childhood father figure. But where Freud was groping in the dark, Wathey backs his argument up with modern neuroscientific evidence, identifying the specific brain regions and networks that he believes give rise to this phenomenon. If you, like me, have a geeky fascination with how the brain gives rise to the mind, there’s a lot of material here to mull over: the role of nucleus accumbens in mediating reward-seeking behavior, cholinergic signaling in the basal forebrain, the top-down role of the visual cortex in sensory perception, and more. He surveys comparably complex neural programming in other species, like newly-hatched sea turtles which have sophisticated instincts that govern when to emerge from their nest, how to seek out the ocean, and how to tell which direction they should swim. He also devotes considerable time to infant cognition and what patient, careful experimentation has shown us about the way babies perceive the world. There are probably a few questions that come to mind when you consider this hypothesis. I had them myself on my first reading of the book: Given that the parental caregiver is usually the mother, why isn’t God more widely believed to be female? Isn’t it maladaptive for this brain network to confer the sense that the supplicant’s prayers have been answered, whereas an infant is only soothed by the actual presence of its parent and not merely the wish? Why do so many religions believe in a God who’s a cruel, punishing lawgiver rather than a comforting maternal figure? Wathey addresses those objections and others in the book" 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2016/01/book-review-the-illusion-of-gods-presence/

Of course nothing above proves that God doesn't exists, or that mystical experiences are not real. It is true modern science can't explain some religious experiences and stories. My question to you intelligent Mormons is: why is faith worth it?  

What if there is no after-life? or what if cryonics and transhumanism is the better option? what if God doesn't care about sin and human sexuality? What if our world is just a simulation? What if there is only one true religion, and the rest of us go to Hell?  What if God doesn't care about faith and religious rites? What if God saves all of us anyway?  What if Atheists are right? What if God is evil? What if there is an evil God that is messing with us and our feelings? What if the FLDS is the true religion? What if Deists are right? 

Edited by MormonVideoGame
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Maybe open up the scriptures and read a little before posting.

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6 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

What if there is no after-life? 

If there is no after-life, no one will ever know.

Faith gives me hope that there is a much better life awaiting. Whether one believes in God or not is their choice. A person can look for reasons to believe or not to believe. That is also their choice. I am more than comfortable with my choices and my faith. I have had some experiences that have augmented that faith.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

"Whether or not you believe in the paranormal may depend entirely on your brain chemistry. People with high levels of dopamine are more likely to find significance in coincidences, and pick out meaning and patterns where there are none"

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2589-paranormal-beliefs-linked-to-brain-chemistry/

The Illusion of God's Presence theory "isn’t a new idea, of course. Sigmund Freud proposed something similar, that religious belief grows from an unconscious longing for a childhood father figure. But where Freud was groping in the dark, Wathey backs his argument up with modern neuroscientific evidence, identifying the specific brain regions and networks that he believes give rise to this phenomenon. If you, like me, have a geeky fascination with how the brain gives rise to the mind, there’s a lot of material here to mull over: the role of nucleus accumbens in mediating reward-seeking behavior, cholinergic signaling in the basal forebrain, the top-down role of the visual cortex in sensory perception, and more. He surveys comparably complex neural programming in other species, like newly-hatched sea turtles which have sophisticated instincts that govern when to emerge from their nest, how to seek out the ocean, and how to tell which direction they should swim. He also devotes considerable time to infant cognition and what patient, careful experimentation has shown us about the way babies perceive the world. There are probably a few questions that come to mind when you consider this hypothesis. I had them myself on my first reading of the book: Given that the parental caregiver is usually the mother, why isn’t God more widely believed to be female? Isn’t it maladaptive for this brain network to confer the sense that the supplicant’s prayers have been answered, whereas an infant is only soothed by the actual presence of its parent and not merely the wish? Why do so many religions believe in a God who’s a cruel, punishing lawgiver rather than a comforting maternal figure? Wathey addresses those objections and others in the book" 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2016/01/book-review-the-illusion-of-gods-presence/

Of course nothing above proves that God doesn't exists, or that mystical experiences are not real. It is true modern science can't explain some religious experiences and stories. My question to you intelligent Mormons is: why is faith worth it?  

What if there is no after-life? or what if cryonics and transhumanism is the better option? what if God doesn't care about sin and human sexuality? What if our world is just a simulation? What if there is only one true religion, and the rest of us go to Hell?  What if God doesn't care about faith and religious rites? What if God saves all of us anyway?  What if Atheists are right? What if God is evil? What if there is an evil God that is messing with us and our feelings? What if the FLDS is the true religion? What if Deists are right? 

If there is no conscious existence after death, you'll never have the satisfaction of being able to gloat about being right. If there is life after death, and a just God who presides as righteous judge over all things, you'll spend an eternity wishing you had seen the value of faith. 

Edited by Bobbieaware
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Afterlife faith keeps me here..it really just keeps my belief in higher power.  There is not a scripture..or a non belief of any other thing..that will sway my faith in this.  It is like all faith..a belief that I keep for hope and the reason to greet every morning sun.  Perhaps, I am the non mormon fool or the ex mormon of some worth...but it is what I believe regardless of religion or not..it is my humaness surviving.

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7 hours ago, MDalby said:

Maybe open up the scriptures and read a little before posting.

what makes you think I didn't? 

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7 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

Faith gives me hope that there is a much better life awaiting. Whether one believes in God or not is their choice.

I don't think lack of faith is a choice, especially if you want an afterlife.  

quote-i-would-love-to-believe-that-when-i-die-i-will-live-again-that-some-thinking-feeling-carl-sagan-35-10-01.jpg

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13 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

What if there is no after-life? or what if cryonics and transhumanism is the better option? what if God doesn't care about sin and human sexuality? What if our world is just a simulation? What if there is only one true religion, and the rest of us go to Hell?  What if God doesn't care about faith and religious rites? What if God saves all of us anyway?  What if Atheists are right? What if God is evil? What if there is an evil God that is messing with us and our feelings? What if the FLDS is the true religion? What if Deists are right? 

Faith requires we act with the best understanding available to us.  It requires we take ALL evidences, the seen and the unseen, the demonstrable and the deeply internal.
Yes, people come to different conclusions, but all anyone can do, even the atheists, is act based upon their faiths.  Act based on what they have determined to be true.

1st Lecture on Faith

  • 10 If men were duly to consider themselves, and turn their thoughts and reflections to the operations of their own minds, they would readily discover that it is faith, and faith only, which is the moving cause of all action, in them; that without it, both mind and body would be in a state of inactivity, and all their exertions would cease, both physical and mental.
  • 11 Were this class to go back and reflect upon the history of their lives, from the period of their first recollection, and ask themselves, what principle excited them to action, or what gave them energy and activity, in all their lawful avocations, callings and pursuits, what would be the answer? Would it not be that it was the assurance which we had of the existence of things which we had not seen, as yet?—Was it not the hope which you had, in consequence of your belief in the existence of unseen things, which stimulated you to action and exertion, in order to obtain them? Are you not dependent on your faith, or belief, for the acquisition of all knowledge, wisdom and intelligence? Would you exert yourselves to obtain wisdom and intelligence, unless you did believe that you could obtain them? Would you have ever sown if you had not believed that you would reap? Would you have ever planted if you had not believed that you would gather? Would you have ever asked unless you had believed that you would receive? Would you have ever sought unless you had believed that you would have found? Or would you have ever knocked unless you had believed that it would have been opened unto you? In a word, is there any thing that you would have done, either physical or mental, if you had not previously believed? Are not all your exertions, of every kind, dependent on your faith? Or may we not ask, what have you, or what do you possess, which you have not obtained by reason of your faith? Your food, your raiment, your lodgings, are they not all by reason of your faith? Reflect, and ask yourselves, if these things are not so. Turn your thoughts on your own minds, and see if faith is not the moving cause of all action in yourselves; and if the moving cause in you, is it not in all other intelligent beings?
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Posted (edited)

Video Game...

Unlike Sagan, who is clearly discomfited with the idea of nothingness, I think Lassie and Flicka (My Friend), non-human but smart pets, are okay with being temporary. Do you disagree?

 

Edited by 3DOP
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14 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

My question to you intelligent Mormons is: why is faith worth it?  

What if...

I am not intelligent, but I’ll take a whack at this anyway, first with a clarifying question: “Why is faith worth what, exactly?” But the value of faith in any case is in prompting the testing of hypotheticals and in applying that which is subsequently proven to be true. Otherwise nothing gets done.

Lack of faith is only a reflection of the choice not to do anything with the hypotheticals and truths one comes across

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Posted (edited)

15 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

My question to you intelligent Mormons is: why is faith worth it? 

Faith is the primary reason is that is why we are here.  All of us proved ourselves being able to believe or know something in true in the First Estate.  We all passed that test.  Those who demand evidence in this life simply want to retest what we passed already.  This life is meant to be a much harder test.  Anyone can believe something if they have enough evidence for it.  It takes no special talent or ability to do that.  To believe something without having all the evidence for it separates them from everyone else who need evidence before they will believe.  Jesus said to Thomas that those who believe without seeing are the ones blessed.  One can believe after seeing but they don't get anything special for that.  Faith is worth it.  Faith will separate you in the eternities from everyone else who demand more than faith.  Faith will lead to exaltation.  Demand for evidence before one believes will qualify them to a position of being a servant in a lower kingdom for eternity.

Edited by carbon dioxide
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1 hour ago, MormonVideoGame said:

I don't think lack of faith is a choice, especially if you want an afterlife

There are people that have had experiences that have convinced them there is an afterlife. I just have had experiences that have convinced me that there is a God. The odds against the universe beginning by accident and then of life beginning by accident are such that I don't worry about it. Faith is more reasonable to me than a lack of belief in anything beyond what we know.

Glenn

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3 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

what makes you think I didn't? 

Because your posts are sufficient evidence.

You really need to learn proper etiquette if a public forum.  Rather than flooding this forum with your random thoughts throughout the day, why don't you start your own blog where you can share your ramblings?

 

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16 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

.................................................................................................

................. It is true modern science can't explain some religious experiences and stories. My question to you intelligent Mormons is: why is faith worth it?  

What if there is no after-life? or what if cryonics and transhumanism is the better option? what if God doesn't care about sin and human sexuality? What if our world is just a simulation? What if there is only one true religion, and the rest of us go to Hell?  What if God doesn't care about faith and religious rites? What if God saves all of us anyway?  What if Atheists are right? What if God is evil? What if there is an evil God that is messing with us and our feelings? What if the FLDS is the true religion? What if Deists are right? 

A lot of whys and what ifs, and one could certainly lengthen the list.  Some people solve the conundrums by making Pascal's Wager, some address the logical, epistemological issues, while others simply go about their everyday lives without giving such questions any thought at all.  Each person may choose which approach to take, if they even have an awareness of the choices.

Meantime, remember what they say:  Keep the faith (1 Cor 16:13).  Or, as they say in Hebrew:  שמור על האמונה

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16 minutes ago, MDalby said:

Because your posts are sufficient evidence.

You really need to learn proper etiquette if a public forum.... 

Huh?  I thought this was a place for discussion? Did I miss something?

...Rather than flooding this forum with your random thoughts throughout the day, why don't you start your own blog where you can share your ramblings?

Some find value in bouncing occasional thoughts/questions off others as sounding boards. 

Were it not for that, this forum would be a pretty silent place.

desert-1.jpg?w=300&h=224

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12 minutes ago, probablyHagoth7 said:

Huh?  I thought this was a place for discussion? Did I miss something?

Some find value in bouncing occasional thoughts/questions off others as sounding boards. 

Were it not for that, this forum would be a pretty silent place.

desert-1.jpg?w=300&h=224

Agreed but MVG seems to throw such random posts.  Is there anything wrong with studying things out before asking others for their input?

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, MDalby said:

Because your posts are sufficient evidence.

I am not interested in your judgments. you don't know anything about me.

Edited by MormonVideoGame
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27 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

I am not interested in your judgments. you don't know anything about me.

No, we do not but that is your fault and not ours. You do not share anything beyond befuddlement at our beliefs with a dollop of contempt. You demand to know our thoughts and beliefs and the rationale for everything we do while sharing nothing. Do you imagine it makes you immune to criticism while you backhandedly criticize us?

18 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

My question to you intelligent Mormons is: why is faith worth it?  

What if there is no after-life? or what if cryonics and transhumanism is the better option? what if God doesn't care about sin and human sexuality? What if our world is just a simulation? What if there is only one true religion, and the rest of us go to Hell?  What if God doesn't care about faith and religious rites? What if God saves all of us anyway?  What if Atheists are right? What if God is evil? What if there is an evil God that is messing with us and our feelings? What if the FLDS is the true religion? What if Deists are right? 

Your intellectual elitism is disturbing. You seem to acknowledge that of course idiots buy into our drivel but seem baffled that those you consider intelligent might be taken in. At the same time you make the assumption that you are at least equally intelligent and would understand any answer the intelligent LDS might give.

You should seek God out. Until you have tasted of his presence you will not understand what idiotic LDS experience let alone what the intelligent amongst us believe and think. We are not playing the game with the same deck of cards you are. We do not start anymore with your "what ifs".

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Posted (edited)

58 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No, we do not but that is your fault and not ours. You do not share anything beyond befuddlement at our beliefs with a dollop of contempt. You demand to know our thoughts and beliefs and the rationale for everything we do while sharing nothing. Do you imagine it makes you immune to criticism while you backhandedly criticize us?.

Listen, I am not criticizing your beliefs, I am simply asking some stuff.  I don't have beliefs, my position is mostly "I don't know". Lack of faith is not a position. I have concerns because life is short. 

59 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

You should seek God out. Until you have tasted of his presence you will not understand what idiotic LDS experience let alone what the intelligent amongst us believe and think..

You are making assumptions. I had a strong testimony, I had spiritual experiences, I loved God and the scriptures. The LDS church was my life.  Please don't judge me, it is not my fault that I lack faith.   

59 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Your intellectual elitism is disturbing

No, it's called "concerns"  

Edited by MormonVideoGame
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22 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

Listen, I am not criticizing your beliefs, I am simply asking some stuff.  I don't have beliefs, my position is mostly "I don't know". Lack of faith is not a position. I have concerns because life is short. 

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions

24 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

You are making assumptions. I had a strong testimony, I had spiritual experiences, I loved God and the scriptures. The LDS church was my life.  Please don't judge me, it is not my fault that I lack faith.   

You poor pathetic powerless victim... :( 

25 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

No, it's called "concerns"  

Which makes no sense as a response to what you quoted there.

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12 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said:

Listen, I am not criticizing your beliefs, I am simply asking some stuff.  I don't have beliefs, my position is mostly "I don't know". Lack of faith is not a position. I have concerns because life is short. 

You are making assumptions. I had a strong testimony, I had spiritual experiences, I loved God and the scriptures. The LDS church was my life.  Please don't judge me, it is not my fault that I lack faith.   

No, it's called "concerns"  

Please do not be disturbed by anything you hear from other members of this board.  I see most of your threads as fodder for the fire frequently fueled only by flickering embers of the faithful who are replying to fanatics for fun.

And while I sometimes have some fun doing that too, my faith is worth a lot more to me than just that.

To me my faith is all about how sure I am about something, and I prefer to prepare myself for the future as much as I possibly can.

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Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You poor pathetic powerless victim... :( 

If there is no god then I am not a victim at all. I haven't seen evidence or good reasons to believe in god or gods, haven't received extraordinary mystical experiences. Again not my fault. If there is a benevolent god out-there I am sure he won't judge me for my lack of faith.

Edited by MormonVideoGame
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1 minute ago, MormonVideoGame said:

If there is no god then I am not a victim at all. It is not my fault I lack faith, I haven't seen evidence or good reasons to believe in god or gods,  haven't received extraordinary mystical experiences. Again not my fault. 

If there is a benevolent god out-there I am sure he won't judge me for my lack of faith. When I was a teenager I always kept the commandments of the church, 

Actually your lack of faith is your own fault, at least from my perspective, because God has already given you enough evidence for you to have some faith in.  You're not expected to have faith in something you have never heard of before, though.  Only on the things you have heard or read about which gave you some information to act on.  

Being indecisive is as bad as being unbelieving, I think. At some point you are expected to have faith one way or the other.

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On 3/19/2017 at 3:53 AM, MormonVideoGame said:

Of course nothing above proves that God doesn't exists, or that mystical experiences are not real. It is true modern science can't explain some religious experiences and stories. My question to you intelligent Mormons is: why is faith worth it?  

The notion of false positives has a long history in evolutionary psychology of religion. I'm sure that's part of what goes on although I don't think it can explain all that goes on. For one if there is a real phenomena of religion then it'd make sense it's have evolutionary implications and get selected for. How we can distinguish between that and merely false positives is an interesting question.

I'd say that in our individual lives we distinguish it to the degree it's repetitive in our lives and can be used to make successful predictions. False positives don't allow us to make predictions in that fashion. To the degree our predictions based upon spiritual experiences are correct that increases our faith until, as Alma 32 suggests, our faith has become knowledge. That is faith is acting upon things to find their consequences as a process of inquiry.

Of course not all members do this but I have no problem saying not all members have true testimonies. Probably lots of people don't but merely think they do.

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Posted (edited)

17 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

 The odds against the universe beginning by accident and then of life beginning by accident are such that I don't worry about it.

I disagree, especially if there is an infinite number (or 10^500 String Theory) of universes. We don't know how many forms of life (as we don't know it) are possible. Even if a god created our Universe it doesn't mean he created our world. Even if he created our world it doesn't mean he cares about human sexuality and religious rites.  Even if he cares about all of that, what if the FLDS is the true religion?  

Lawrence M Krauss has a new book called "The Greatest Story Ever Told--So Far: Why Are We Here?", it will be available soon. 

 

 

Edited by MormonVideoGame
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