Who is the original God?

[towerwatchman]

Mormonism views it’s god as a material object. JS believed and taught that his god is a material humanoid who was a product of physical intercourse between his parents, who in turn are a product of physical intercourse between their parents. This process regresses into infinity past. In Mormon theology the Mormon god is part of the material universe, a physical object created by physical objects before him. Since everything that comes into existence owes its existence to something else, who do the Mormon gods owe their existence to?

 

Simple argument.

Premise one. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

Premise two. The universe has a beginning.

Conclusion. The universe has a cause.

 

It is a logical and rational argument, if premise one and premise two are true then the conclusion naturally follows as true. If you want to deny the conclusion you would have to prove premise one or premise two false.

 

Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father, until we come to a stop where we cannot go further, because of our limited capacity to understand (Doctrines of Salvation [1955], 2:45).

 

HOW HE BECAME GOD Yet, if we accept the great law of eternal progression, we must accept the fact that there was a time when Deity was much less powerful than He is today. Then how did He become glorified and exalted and attain His present status of Godhood? In the first place, aeons ago God undoubtedly took advantage of every opportunity to learn the laws of truth and as He became acquainted with each new verity He righteously obeyed it. From day to day He exerted His will vigorously, and as a result became thoroughly acquainted with the forces lying about Him. As he gained more knowledge through persistent effort and continuous industry, as well as through absolute obedience, His understanding of the universal laws continued to become more complete. Thus He grew in experience and continued to grow until He attained the status of Godhood. In other words, He became God by absolute obedience to all the eternal laws of the Gospel—by conforming His actions to all truth, and thereby became the author of eternal truth. Therefore, the road that the Eternal Father followed to Godhood was one of living at all times a dynamic, industrious, and completely righteous life. There is no other way to exaltation. **

Hunter, Milton R. (2009-08-18). Gospel Through the Ages (Kindle Locations 1869-1877). Deseret Book Company. Kindle Edition.

Mormonism seems to have a serious problem. It's god existed in the temporal and the physical. Who created the environment in which he first existed? Logically he owes his existence to something or someone else.

We know for a fact that everything that begins to exist has a cause.

 

Let’s put this in a logical argument.

Premise one. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

Premise two. The Mormon god had a beginning.

Conclusion. The Mormon god had a cause.

 

Who is he? Who is the point of singularity from which everything came into being?

Logically this would be the true God.

Does anyone know who He is?

[Glenn101]

22 minutes ago, towerwatchman said:

Who is he? Who is the point of singularity from which everything came into being?

 

Logically this would be the true God.

 

Does anyone know who He is?

It has not been revealed. At least not to the world.

So, maybe it would be better to ask God.

 

[towerwatchman]

1 hour ago, Glenn101 said:

It has not been revealed. At least not to the world.

So, maybe it would be better to ask God.

 

According to the second law of thermodynamics time and the universe had a beginning. The point of singularity from which everything began to exist had to be eternal, personal, and intelligent. Following Mormonism to a logical conclusion there had to be a series of, man to god and creation, each owning its existence to a prior god, regressing to the original creator. Each series of 'man to god' was the part result of srtick obedience and worship. Why would prior 'gods' allow 'other gods' before them, knowing that future 'gods' owe their existence to them. 

[Glenn101]

34 minutes ago, towerwatchman said:

According to the second law of thermodynamics time and the universe had a beginning. The point of singularity from which everything

began to exist had to be eternal,  personal, and intelligent. Following Mormonism to a logical conclusion there had to be a series of,

man to god and creation, each owning its existence to a prior god, regressing to the original creator. Each series of 'man to god' was

the part result of strict obedience and worship. Why would prior 'gods' allow 'other gods' before them, knowing that future 'gods'

owe their existence to them. 

Still, in answer to your final question about the "real God", the answer has not been revealed. Since we are taught that we cannot find God on our own, by our intellect, we will have to wait until it is revealed. If Mark Bukowski happens along you could probably get him to engage in a lengthy debate on the philosophy of the nature of God, but in the end you wi;; be no closer to an answer than the one I gave. Since God avers that He has always been, I take Him at His word. I realize that finite cannot understand infinite, and right now I am on the low end of the finite scale. I understand very little. But at least I know that much. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Glenn101
tried to fix format problem.

[Robert F. Smith]

15 hours ago, towerwatchman said:

Mormonism views it’s god as a material object. JS believed and taught that his god is a material humanoid who was a product of physical intercourse between his parents, who in turn are a product of physical intercourse between their parents. This process regresses into infinity past. In Mormon theology the Mormon god is part of the material universe, a physical object created by physical objects before him. Since everything that comes into existence owes its existence to something else, who do the Mormon gods owe their existence to?

.............................................  

Premise one. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

Premise two. The universe has a beginning.

Conclusion. The universe has a cause.

It is a logical and rational argument, if premise one and premise two are true then the conclusion naturally follows as true. If you want to deny the conclusion you would have to prove premise one or premise two false.

Your enthymeme is faulty because is contains false premises -- because it is constructed based on normative Christian theology.  In Mormonism there is no beginning and no end (Book of Abraham 3:18, Moses 1:3), which means only infinite regression (as you yourself state).  The watchword in Mormonism is infinity.  All humans are of the genus and species of God, and they are coeternal with God -- by virtue of their eternal spark of existence (called "intelligence" in Abraham 3:21-22, D&C 93:29-36).  Bear in mind also that, in Mormonism, spirit is refined matter -- which is differentiated from the matter we are familiar with in our earthly physical state.  Humans are thus compose of three successive states: Intelligence, Spiritual Body, and Physical Body.  Gods exist within an additional state of glory.  The multiverse and an infinity of gods has always existed and always will.  Whenever "creation" takes place, it always entails organizing of pre-existing material.

Quote

Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father, until we come to a stop where we cannot go further, because of our limited capacity to understand (Doctrines of Salvation [1955], 2:45).

.............................................................................   

Mormonism seems to have a serious problem. It's god existed in the temporal and the physical. Who created the environment in which he first existed? Logically he owes his existence to something or someone else.

We know for a fact that everything that begins to exist has a cause.

...................................................  

Premise one. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

Premise two. The Mormon god had a beginning.

Conclusion. The Mormon god had a cause.

.................................................  

With an infinite regress of the Father Gods, eternal progression, and increase into the future, there is no Uncaused Cause (Prime Mover) and no Necessary Being who precedes all others.  There was no beginning, there shall be no end.  The purpose of man is to attain joy (2 Nephi 2:25) through God's Plan of Salvation:  For it is God's selfless work and his glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man (Moses 1:39).  This is a remarkably humanistic and naturalistic theology, even if is beyond human ken.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Robert F. Smith

[Tsuzuki]

7 hours ago, towerwatchman said:

Who is the point of singularity from which everything came into being?

Causality is an illusion based on our position and movement through time, and the best thing Mormonism ever did was to get rid of the notion of a first cause, and instead focus on eternity. The root of all existence is not an event in the past.

[Bobbieaware]

12 hours ago, towerwatchman said:

Mormonism views it’s god as a material object. JS believed and taught that his god is a material humanoid who was a product of physical intercourse between his parents, who in turn are a product of physical intercourse between their parents. This process regresses into infinity past. In Mormon theology the Mormon god is part of the material universe, a physical object created by physical objects before him. Since everything that comes into existence owes its existence to something else, who do the Mormon gods owe their existence to?

 

 

 

Simple argument.

 

Premise one. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

 

Premise two. The universe has a beginning.

 

Conclusion. The universe has a cause.

 

 

 

It is a logical and rational argument, if premise one and premise two are true then the conclusion naturally follows as true. If you want to deny the conclusion you would have to prove premise one or premise two false.

 

 

 

Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father, until we come to a stop where we cannot go further, because of our limited capacity to understand (Doctrines of Salvation [1955], 2:45).

 

 

 

HOW HE BECAME GOD Yet, if we accept the great law of eternal progression, we must accept the fact that there was a time when Deity was much less powerful than He is today. Then how did He become glorified and exalted and attain His present status of Godhood? In the first place, aeons ago God undoubtedly took advantage of every opportunity to learn the laws of truth and as He became acquainted with each new verity He righteously obeyed it. From day to day He exerted His will vigorously, and as a result became thoroughly acquainted with the forces lying about Him. As he gained more knowledge through persistent effort and continuous industry, as well as through absolute obedience, His understanding of the universal laws continued to become more complete. Thus He grew in experience and continued to grow until He attained the status of Godhood. In other words, He became God by absolute obedience to all the eternal laws of the Gospel—by conforming His actions to all truth, and thereby became the author of eternal truth. Therefore, the road that the Eternal Father followed to Godhood was one of living at all times a dynamic, industrious, and completely righteous life. There is no other way to exaltation. **

 

Hunter, Milton R. (2009-08-18). Gospel Through the Ages (Kindle Locations 1869-1877). Deseret Book Company. Kindle Edition.

 

Mormonism seems to have a serious problem. It's god existed in the temporal and the physical. Who created the environment in which he first existed? Logically he owes his existence to something or someone else.

 

We know for a fact that everything that begins to exist has a cause.

 

 

 

Let’s put this in a logical argument.

 

Premise one. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.

 

Premise two. The Mormon god had a beginning.

 

Conclusion. The Mormon god had a cause.

 

 

 

Who is he? Who is the point of singularity from which everything came into being?

 

Logically this would be the true God.

 

Does anyone know who He is?

 

The first part of you post perfectly describes the humanoid (your choice of word) God Jesus Christ.

When God creates and populates another world ike this one, it will be most fascinating to behold the shocked and bewildered expressions on the faces of the people of that planet when they learn the supposedly IMMATERIAL, IMMORTAL, OMNISCIENT and UNCHANGEABLE God they were taught to worship actually turns out to be a MATERIAL humanoid, with a MOTHER and a FATHER, who lived out his life on a distant MATERIAL planet in the Milky Way galaxy. The shocked expressions of the people will deepen when they also learn their IMMORTAL, UNCHANGABLE and OMNISCIENT God started out his MORTAL life as an utterly HELPLESS little baby, who, like other children, continued to GROW and CHANGE in PHYSICAL FORM and STATURE, while experiencing the EXPANSION his mind through EDUCATION, PROGRESSING to ever GREATER and GREATER heights of wisdom, insight and knowledge. Those shocked and bewildered expressions will them turn to expressions of mockery and derision when they are asked to swallow the unreasonable idea that the IMMORTAL, UNCHANGEABLE, INEFFABLE and OMNIPOTENT God was betrayed by someone he himself chose to be one of his disciples, was imprisoned and allowed himself to be subjected to mock trials presided over by wicked men, was found guilty of capital crimes which led to his MATERIAL BODY being tortured and afflicted with excruciating PHYSICAL PAIN, and them, finally, was cruelty executed as he shed MATERIAL BLOOD, and then ultimately suffered a horrendous  PHYSICAL DEATH, only to take his MATERIAL/PHYSICAL BODY back again in an immortal form. No doubt about it, who among the informed and enlightened thinkers of that world could possibly fall for a theology of such foolish, outlandish and totally illogical nonsense? 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[notHagoth7]

12 hours ago, towerwatchman said:

According to the second law of thermodynamics time and the universe had a beginning. The point of singularity from which everything began to exist had to be eternal, personal, and intelligent. Following Mormonism to a logical conclusion there had to be a series of, man to god and creation, each owning its existence to a prior god, regressing to the original creator. Each series of 'man to god' was the part result of srtick obedience and worship. Why would prior 'gods' allow 'other gods' before them, knowing that future 'gods' owe their existence to them. 

You're assuming that, for God, time is linear.

Edited March 17, 2017 by notHagoth7

[JLHPROF]

14 hours ago, towerwatchman said:

Premise one. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
Premise two. The Mormon god had a beginning.
Conclusion. The Mormon god had a cause.

Who is he? Who is the point of singularity from which everything came into being?
Logically this would be the true God.
Does anyone know who He is?

The bolded part is your error.
God may have a beginning - his Father.
There is no ultimate beginning any more than there is an ultimate end.  Eternity works in both directions.
Every Father was a Son.  Every Son had a Father.

[Hestia]

No debate topics in the social hall.