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JeffreyLloyd

The Great Apostasy?

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So here we have 2 Apostles called after the fact.

You don't ever see Paul being ordained as one of the Twelve.

Another thought. I find it rather ironic that Catholics base the very foundation of their church on a tradition that is not found in scripture and claim that it is acceptable to follow such tradition, but when it comes to Paul being an apostle (one of the twelve), which has loads of evidence in scripture, they cannot accept it.

That just seems to be illogical to me.

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And heres the ASV version:
1:21 Of the men therefore that have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and went out among us,

1:22 beginning from the baptism of John, unto the day that he was received up from us, of these must one become a witness with us of his resurrection.

That throughs a hitch in both LDS and Catholic interpretation of this verse. <_<

I don't mean to be combative...but I think that states exactly what I have proposed. :P

Peace be with you.

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Actually, yes we do:

2 Timothy 2:7

7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

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1 Timothy Chapter 2 Paul does infact refer to himself as an apostle.

For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human, who gave himself as ransom for all. This was the testimony at the proper time. For this I was appointed preacher and apostle (I am speaking the truth, I am not lying), teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

It does not designate him as one of the Twelve.

When we read Hebrews 3:1, does that tell us that Christ Himself was ordained as one of the Twelve Apostles?

Therefore, holy "brothers," sharing in a heavenly calling, reflect on Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession, who was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was "faithful in (all) his house."

Peace be with you.

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When we read Hebrews 3:1, does that tell us that Christ Himself was ordained as one of the Twelve Apostles?

Therefore, holy "brothers," sharing in a heavenly calling, reflect on Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession, who was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was "faithful in (all) his house."

Hmm . .

Was He a witness of His resurrection?

Did He have true authority to pass the keys of apostleship?

Was He appointed/ordained by God the Father?

I'd say yep . .

(weird, neither him was capitatlized in the KJV verse 2)

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Actually, yes we do:

2 Timothy 2:7

7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

T-Shirt

1 Timothy Chapter 2 Paul does infact refer to himself as an apostle.

For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human, who gave himself as ransom for all. This was the testimony at the proper time. For this I was appointed preacher and apostle (I am speaking the truth, I am not lying), teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

It does not designate him as one of the Twelve.

When we read Hebrews 3:1, does that tell us that Christ Himself was ordained as one of the Twelve Apostles?

Therefore, holy "brothers," sharing in a heavenly calling, reflect on Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession, who was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was "faithful in (all) his house."

Peace be with you.

The KJV uses the word ordained, but I will readily admit that there are alternative translations possible. Never the less, I know of no reason why Paul would not be one of the twelve. When he is first referred to as an apostle, it is right at the same time that James is killed by Herod. i think it is very likely that Paul was ordained in his place. However, the term "twelve" does not have to refer to an exact number, it is a title for a special group of ordained apostles. After Judas died, the gospels still refer to them as the twelve, even though there were only eleven. There is no reason why there could not have been more than twelve. Given that Paul was given a special designation as the apostle to the gentiles, I think it is possible that he was an ordained apostle and one of the twelve, even if there were more than twelve.

As far as Hebrews 3:1, I think it is interesting that this is the only place in the New Testament where the word apostle is capitalized. Paul often spoke in metaphores, this is a classic example of a Pauline metaphore. Christ was symbolically an apostle, or the one sent from God, the one holding all power and authority. In this sense, Christ was an apostle in that He had the authority to ordain the apostles on earth.

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As far as Hebrews 3:1, I think it is interesting that this is the only place in the New Testament where the word apostle is capitalized.

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This is interesting. In my version (NAB) the term apostle is not capitalized. :P We should look up some other versions to see if they capitalized apostle in Hebrews 3:1.

Peace be with you.

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NIV

1Holy brothers and sisters, God chose you to be his people. So keep thinking about Jesus. He is our apostle. He is our high priest. We believe in him.

NASB

1Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession;

KJV

1Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

ASV

1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, even Jesus;

ESV

1Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,

NAB

Therefore, holy "brothers," sharing in a heavenly calling, reflect on Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,

It seems to be split. :P

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