Finland protects children from Christianity

[Darren10]

11 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

I was force fed LDS religious propaganda from a very young age. And then things got better. Occasionally, I still get the asinine ignoramus who'll tell me I'm so miserable that I don't know I'm miserable. To which I dignify with a chuckle and a middle finger.

Be thankful you have a middle finger to flip them off with.

[Darren10]

2 hours ago, Valentinus said:

Parents can find a sitter if the children are too young. Children should not be told to believe in a religion solely based on familial tradition and preference. If the kid wants to join the religion then they can do it on their own time and without the parents influence. Let the kid decide if embracing religion is valid. Just leave the kids alone. Sure, let them know that it means something to you. But don't try to force them into believing in a genocidal tyrant with a 2 year olds temper tantrum.

Then you should be thankful for rhe Church of Jesus Christ of latter-Day Saints who teaches all its participants fo pray about their attending the LDS Church and let God Himself guide them to it or to whatever decision they should make. 

 

[Darren10]

2 hours ago, Valentinus said:

Considering the Lutheran Church's vehemence, something had to be done. Let kids inform themselves on matters of religion without having it shoved down their throats since birth.

Parents, of course, can explain why they believe but shouldn't put any kind of pressure on kids to follow in their footsteps. That's just basic human decency.

And thus we have a state-run religion as being forged in Finland which caters to this fundamental belief of yours. A natural result in thwarting the "vehemency" of that there Lutheran Church. Heaven forbid the Lutherans have control of government. 

[Jane_Doe]

2 hours ago, Valentinus said:

Considering the Lutheran Church's vehemence, something had to be done. Let kids inform themselves on matters of religion without having it shoved down their throats since birth.

Parents, of course, can explain why they believe but shouldn't put any kind of pressure on kids to follow in their footsteps. That's just basic human decency.

Should we likewise not tell our children to go to school?  Or teach them manners from birth?  Teach them to value life since birth?

[carbon dioxide]

5 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

And thus we have a state-run religion as being forged in Finland which caters to this fundamental belief of yours. A natural result in thwarting the "vehemency" of that there Lutheran Church. Heaven forbid the Lutherans have control of government. 

This is not really happening in Finland. 

[carbon dioxide]

26 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

I was force fed LDS religious propaganda from a very young age. And then things got better. Occasionally, I still get the asinine ignoramus who'll tell me I'm so miserable that I don't know I'm miserable. To which I dignify with a chuckle and a middle finger.

Every person has a different experience.  I am thankful for my parents and how they raised me.  Parents have the right to teach their kids their values and ways of life.   People want the government out of their bedrooms.  Its a good idea.  It is also just as good to have the government out of our kitchens, living rooms, and churches. 

[Marmonboy]

2 hours ago, Valentinus said:

Paying the bills does not justify religious coercion. Kids shouldn't have their young lives monopolized by something that cannot ever be fully understood.

Why teach children anything at all? Shouldn't they be allowed to choose? Let their tiny, still-forming minds make all their own life decisions.

"We don't need no education, we don't need no thought control..."

[Darren10]

Oops, this article is satire. Forget it.

[Damien the Leper]

20 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Dayam! I’d ask, “what the h*ll is Finland thinking,” but in reality this is a world-wide trend. Let the state take care of you, even from your parents and Jesus.

Big government is a powerful tool to preach and convert to Atheism.

I love atheism. It requires so little of my time and I got a 10% tax cut by no longer tithing.

[Damien the Leper]

15 hours ago, Darren10 said:

Then you should be thankful for rhe Church of Jesus Christ of latter-Day Saints who teaches all its participants fo pray about their attending the LDS Church and let God Himself guide them to it or to whatever decision they should make. 

 

They should also say, "If we're not the right fit for you then no harm, no foul. You do you and find joy however you must."

Edited March 12, 2017 by Valentinus

[Damien the Leper]

15 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

And thus we have a state-run religion as being forged in Finland which caters to this fundamental belief of yours. A natural result in thwarting the "vehemency" of that there Lutheran Church. Heaven forbid the Lutherans have control of government. 

Theocracy and theonomy are enemies of the state and citizens. 

[Damien the Leper]

16 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Should we likewise not tell our children to go to school?  Or teach them manners from birth?  Teach them to value life since birth?

Again, a slippery slope. 

[carbon dioxide]

5 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

I love atheism. It requires so little of my time and I got a 10% tax cut by no longer tithing.

Yeah but it offers nothing when you are in the hospital dying of cancer and it sure does not help getting over loss.  Next time someone you knows has someone close die, go say this to them and see how they react.  "I am sorry for your loss but it is not wonderful that they do not exist anymore. Their existence has been wiped out forever.  You will never get a chance to see them again.  Puts a smile on your face huh."  See how they react to something like that. 

Edited March 11, 2017 by carbon dioxide

[Marmonboy]

41 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

Why would anyone take advice from a person with kids who forces said kids to go to a building and worship via prescribed methods and hear people audaciously reaffirm what they think they know?

 

How is force-feeding people agnosticism and/or atheism any different than force-feeding them religion? If they can choose religion on their own when they reach maturity, can they not also choose to not be religious?

[Damien the Leper]

8 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Every person has a different experience.  I am thankful for my parents and how they raised me.  Parents have the right to teach their kids their values and ways of life.   People want the government out of their bedrooms.  Its a good idea.  It is also just as good to have the government out of our kitchens, living rooms, and churches. 

And keep religion out of your bedroom too. It's fascinating how people are against big government but love big religion. 

[Jane_Doe]

2 hours ago, Valentinus said:

Paying the bills does not justify religious coercion. Kids shouldn't have their young lives monopolized by something that cannot ever be fully understood.

My young daughter doesn't understand a lot of things we teach her and force her to learn regardless of whether or not she wants to (such is potty training).  Should we thereby quit teaching her those things and let her do whatever she wants?  

[carbon dioxide]

1 hour ago, Valentinus said:

And keep religion out of your bedroom too. It's fascinating how people are against big government but love big religion. 

I am ok with that. 

 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Valentinus said:

Why would anyone take advice from a person with kids who forces said kids to go to a building and worship via prescribed methods and hear people audaciously reaffirm what they think they know?

 

Because they see how happy the kids have grown either as older children or as adults.  Not saying all religious families are that way, but we did have a couple of families come up and ask for advice out of the blue when we were out and about with our kids, so it is easy to find examples one thinks might have good things to say.  We had some adults ask us how we managed when our son went to work for them.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

My young daughter doesn't understand a lot of things we teach her and force her to learn regardless of whether or not she wants to (such is potty training).  Should we thereby quit teaching her those things and let her do whatever she wants?  

My daughter hated math at certain points in her life.  She was smart, but her anxiety prevented her from learning.  When I had to home teach her due to health, she already knew what an obsession it was for me and how happy I was that her older brother was quite 'gifted' in that area.  There had been no reason to expect it would be a problem as she was great with teachers at school so I never 'hid' my beliefs in the supremacy of Math.  She feared she would disappoint me and the fear shut her brain down.

Pressure and expectations can cause problems for kids.  I wonder if Val thinks it should be illegal for me to teach my daughter math or find someone else to teach her because of all the confusion and guilt that she has tied around it.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Valentinus said:

Why would anyone take advice from a person with kids who forces said kids to go to a building and worship via prescribed methods and hear people audaciously reaffirm what they think they know?

 

Are you suggesting that we should completely ignore as intelligent and reasonable parents who send their kids to the building where they sit for 6 or more hours as a forced indoctrination 5days a week, 9 months out of a year or more, even having to ask permission to speak or go to the bathroom, eat only at certain times and in certain areas, have no freedom to even walk down the street, where what physical activity is allowed, must be performed as instructed and then they hear day after day, the same people reaffirming hour after hour what they think they know and then even having the audacity to require tests to see how successful the indoctrination was!

And then after all that, if they haven't gotten with the program, they will often be sentenced to the lower levels of society, without a decent income to advanced themselves...simply because they refused to absorb all that indoctrination.

Pure evil.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Darren10 said:

Oops, this article is satire. Forget it.

Missed a few posts I take it.

[Darren10]

9 hours ago, Valentinus said:

I love atheism. It requires so little of my time and I got a 10% tax cut by no longer tithing.

No temporal pain, no eternal gain.

[Darren10]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

Missed a few posts I take it.

I was following them one by one as well as posting the article on a blog where one blogger friend pointed out the satire. 

OOOOPS, on my part.

[Meadowchik]

9 hours ago, Marmonboy said:

How is force-feeding people agnosticism and/or atheism any different than force-feeding them religion? If they can choose religion on their own when they reach maturity, can they not also choose to not be religious?

The obvious answer is that neither must be force-fed. Organised religion is.

That said, as long as parents are not neglecting the child,  I think there's something important to opening up our  core beliefs to our children, in essence fully disclosing why we live how we live. Effectively, them participating in our religious practice is an element of that.

Then, as they process the foundations of their childhood and therefore, our parenting, they'll be more able to identify the characteristics that have formed their minds and lifestyles. 

Valentinus, I would say that, informed individual cognition is better than an absence of religious indoctrination.

 

[why me]

Although the piece is satire there is some ring of truth in it. Not many people attend the Lutheran Church on a regular basis.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/fewer_finns_go_to_church/5339302

http://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/church_attendance_falls_religion_seen_as_private/5539349

And the country is not particularly religious in outlook either. Christianity is in danger in Finland of becoming only a narginal factor in people's lives, somewhat limited to death, baptism, weddings etc. However, one can see the rise of Islam in Finnish society, especially Islamism as more Muslim women are wearing the Hijab. But this can also be seen throughout Europe where Christianity is becoming marginalized. So, as christianity is attacked by secularists, Islam is more or less given a free pass because of identity politics. And within this aspect of identity politics, christians do not have an identity. .

Edited March 12, 2017 by why me